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Psych Diagnosis Along With Pots


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Several people on here have mentioned that depression can go along with a chronic illness. I can agree with that.

The problem is, I have a friend (former nurse), who has a psych diagnosis along with fibromyalgia. She also suffers from chronic fatigue, sleep disturbances, etc. Since I'm familiar with her case and her escapades with doctors, I can tell you it scares the daylights out of me to even have a psych diagnosis put on my chart. They always see that she has that, and then attribute her complaints to her psych diagnosis and rarely look into an organic cause. It's difficult listening to how she gets brushed aside.

Secondly, any time someone has tried me on antidepressants, they made me ill. As a matter of fact, I suspect that when I pushed myself through a 4-week stint of Remeron back in 2002, I gained a lot of weight (now that's depressing), and my POTS had worsened.

So, even if I do go to a counselor and talk, instead of taking medicine, I'm scared of the diagnosis on my chart.

Do you have an opinion? Thanks in advance.

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It is my personal opinion that ONLY a trained psychiatrist can truly distinguish between a "psychiatric" or mood disorder and an organic disorder that effects mood. OF COURSE IF YOU FEEL CRAPPY ALL THE TIME YOU WILL ALSO FEEL DOWN! But that is NOT clinical depression! Of course if your heart races every time you stand up you are going to feel anxious, but that is not clinical Anxiety disorder! Much of what WE feel, which is out of our control, looks and sounds like these two disorders. Many of the physical symptoms overlap, but the cause is not the same.

If you worry or wonder about it, GO to a GOOD, clinical psychiatrist and be evaluated. The difference in a psychiatrist and psychologist is that a psych IS a medical doctor FIRST and their subspecialty (like surgery or endocrinology) is psychiatry. A Psychologist is not necessarily a medical doctor, though some are. Ask one of the doctors that you trust and who KNOWS about your dysautonomia for a referral to a psych that they would trust.

I was fortunate that I found a very good psychiatrist who would not prescribe any meds or "mess with my brain chemistry" (his words) till the physical problem was diagnosed. He became one of my biggest supporters in my medical team to find a diagnosis. I had expected more "feelings" talk from him and less physical/clinical, test result based talk. He actually looked at my medical chart and acted like a doctor, as well as asking about how I "felt."

All this being said, you can have either Anxiety or Depression and dysautonomia, and many of the meds work on the CNS and can help both.

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I've had panic disorder for 25 years and yes sometimes it was front and center on my medical chart and that was hard because everyone was missing the POTS for a very long time.

Currently my PCP of 10 years knows I have panic disorder and he and I agree that I am best to address those issues with my therapist. Which I do. My PCP focuses soley on the physical issues of Dysautonomia and CFS -- and whatever other virus or bug joins the party. He trusts that I know my body (and my panic disordered brain) and knows that I know when there is a physical issue that is at the root of a symptom. Gosh I am so lucky to have him on my side!

And I would suggest if you don't have the right PCP who trusts your insights than keep looking until you find a better match.

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Personally, the dx of "depression" has helped me, in the sense that nearly every doctor I see wants to first dismiss my symptoms with "you're just depressed" (I can't tell you how many times I've heard that)! Now, I can I reply, "Yes, I do have depression, and have been in treatment for quite a while. My psych doc says that I am doing very well, am mentally stable, and that these symptoms cannot be attributed to my depression." Then the doc HAS to take me more seriously. It's one of those hurdles you just have to climb. Of course, you first need to GET a very good psych. In my opinion, it's worth it, because (as I said), many docs will try to write you off, whether you're really depressed or not.

Hope this helps!

Erin

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Does anyone ever feel like they are going crazy? I used to get"panic attacks" when in high school, which we now believe were realy POTS attacks. I was feeling better in college but a stint of drinking sprung the illness back upon me. I have been sick ever since. I obviously had anxiety not knowing what was wrong with me for over 2 years, but even now that I have a diagnosis, I sometimes feel like I am about to lose it. Sometimes I get swings of anxiety and feel so tensed that I could punch through a brick wall or just explode, and other times, my body feels completely calm but I get these strange thoughts. Sometimes I feel like something bad is about to happen any moment, other times I just feel very out of it and in my own little world, and then there are times that I feel like I am simply going to just lose my mind.

This whole thing has drastically interfered with my life as I'm sure it has for many of us...but what is relation between the psychological issues and POTS?

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I have bipolar depression with accompanying anxiety issues. I have had my POTS symptoms brushed aside as anxiety.

Amber

This is the fear I have, as my friend's doctor's never wants to touch her for fear that it would interfere with the psych conditions, and so she hardly ever gets help for anything unless it's very obvious from a test that she needs something.

The doctors are afraid of causing a worsening of psych symptoms.

As it turns out, her psych symptoms are poorly controlled, probably because of other underlying conditions, so it becomes a vicious circle with no end in sight, and minimal help.

I feel really bad for the situation you are in and I can totally understand how difficult if must be. Blessings to you.

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I too have psychiatric diagnosis. I see a psychiatrist 1 every 6-8 weeks. He is the medicine man. He also listens. I also see a psychologist who only sees people with medical problems. Sometimes we have a problem solving time. My psychiatrist insists on having someone to help you travel the road. I have also gone to psy/psychol paid by me and asked what they would and would not put in my private medical record. M

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I have bipolar depression with accompanying anxiety issues. I have had my POTS symptoms brushed aside as anxiety.

Amber

This is the fear I have, as my friend's doctor's never wants to touch her for fear that it would interfere with the psych conditions, and so she hardly ever gets help for anything unless it's very obvious from a test that she needs something.

The doctors are afraid of causing a worsening of psych symptoms.

As it turns out, her psych symptoms are poorly controlled, probably because of other underlying conditions, so it becomes a vicious circle with no end in sight, and minimal help.

I feel really bad for the situation you are in and I can totally understand how difficult if must be. Blessings to you.

Generally, it is thought best to rule out any physical causes of depression, anxiety, or any other mental illness before making a conclusion. Unfortunately, once a diagnosis of mental illness is applied, doctors tend to conversely and automatically use that to rule out any physical illness.

Panic and anxiety disorders are much more prominent than POTS, and have similar symptoms to POTS. Doctors seem to deem a more prevalent diagnosis as more likely across the board for patients they see. It's simply the easiest. I suppose the rationale is why go do all kinds of tests for all kinds of rare things if something simple can explain it and there is no immediate indication for something else. Because panic/anxiety is a catch-all of symptoms, it could mask everything from a heart attack or a stroke to the fact that you are about to vomit from car sickness. They slap an anxiety disorder on you, and from that point on finding a diagnosis of POTS is all the more difficult.

It is more difficult if you walk into the ER and admit to a history of anxiety or any other health issue.

It is very frustrating. What I would hope that your friend's doctor, or any doctor, would realize is that, anxiety disorder or not, NOT treating her symptoms of a health problem is ADDING to and worsening her anxiety. Especially when someone has a problem with anxiety, not attempting to diagnosis and treat any physical problem is just the opposite of reason, in my humble opinion.

I understand that doctors can get frustrated with patients that they see as hypochondriac. They don't want to do what they think are wasting tests and money. Again, very frustrating.

I'm sorry I don't have any answers. My therapist saved me by suggesting the poor man's tilt table.

Amber

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When this was first being correctly diagnosed, my doctor said "I'd be worried if you weren't a bit depresses having heart disease, dysautonomia,etc a" at age 43. So The door was open. I believe that having someone therapist or whatever to talk to , just for you is the best gift you can give yourself. M

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  • 2 months later...

when i was diagnosed last november the doctor's report said that it was POTS but my neurologist insisted that it could be POTS or anxiety causing a false positive. She had at the same time sent me to the psychiatrist who seems to think that the POTS is a minor inconvenience and that an anxiety disorder is the main problem. I don't see the neurologist anymore because in her words 'i just have to live with it' but I'm still seeing the psychiatrist whose only understanding of POTS is what I tell her. (I'm all for the age of web technology but last appointment I suggest swapping my Lexopro for Cymbalta and she looked it up on wikipedia. :) I imagine that would hysterical if it wasn't my medication we were talking about.)

I spent 18 months being bounced from doctor to doctor before I had the TTT and the technician was fantastic - she explained everything as she went through and guessed the diagnosis by just flicking through my medical file. I understand that there is some crossover between anxiety and POTS, at least on paper, but I'm hoping that someone reading this will have the 'magic cure' that will get her to understand that I'm not just an attention seeking teenager with a psych condition.

I like to keep my school books neat so I apparently have OCD, I had a friend in primary school who died so I apparently have PTSD - it just seems to me that every time i see her she tries to find out some big dark secret to explain why I'm the way I am - exhausted, fainting, nauseas - which is a - not helpful and b - inconsiderate to the people out there who are really suffering with those conditions. I guess that's just what I get for seeing a psychiatrist.

Sorry, venting was getting a little out of hand, I promise there is actually a point to this post. I'm hoping that someone can tell me who I should be seeing as my PCP; a cardiologist, neurologist etc. I would have thought a neurologist would be the obvious choice but the one I mentioned earlier is really the best in the area and she's made her views on POTS pretty clear. I'm hoping for someone who can give me better advice that 'just get over it' :D

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Sometimes not only can it be brushed aside, but some people (not all) can be very mean, and use it against you if you dare to complain about them. And they have your diagnoses to back them up. And some (not all) can think it gives them a right to be mean, or abuse you, because no one will believe you.

Suzy

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I'm sorry I saw this topic because it makes me want to vent about all the stuff I've gone through with the mental health people. Back in the early 90's I was trying to find out why I was having fatigue, brain fog and mental clouding. The doctors told me there was nothing wrong with me and it was probably anxiety/depression. At the same time prozac was being hyped as the cure to a grumpy world so I went to a counselor to see if I had hidden depression. I did not feel down in the dumps in fact my life was on an upward swing at the time. I was told I was severely depressed and sent to a psychiatrist. After trying several different medications without results I had a reaction to either a norepinephrine uptake inhibitor or a steroid I was taking for my lungs. At the time we blamed the steroid but after learning about my high amounts of norepinephrine I wonder if that was the culprit. Any way I was in clinical depression for over 2 months and had to stay home from work. I don't want to drag this out too long by going over the past 15 years just suffice it to say I bounced around between different psych drugs.

When the pots became severe and I tried to get a diagnosis for my problem all I ever got was "it's anxiety". Even when I had a heart rate increase of over 40 bpm on a tilt table test I was told there was nothing physically wrong with me and that I was depressed (This doctor was even more mocking than the others). It wasn't until I went to Cleveland Clinic where I was taken seriously. My psychiatrist was supportive during this process and had pretty much ruled out anxiety since he had put me on meds to combat it and I was still having problems. He also supported me in my quest to get a pots diagnosis and even said that specialists feel they have to say something so they are quick to grab the mental health or overweight excuses.

Sometime after diagnosis my new pcp and I thought we would try to reduce the norepinephrine levels so after consulting with Dr. Raj at Vanderbilt and my psychiatrist it was decided to get off of cymbalta, switch to lexipro and take clonidine. I had a reaction to the withdrawal from cymbalta and became very agitated. I went to the er on the advise of the psychiatrist's nurse to get voluntarily admitted so they can monitor my meds. The ER was a disaster, instead getting to the psych wing in a reasonably timely manner I had to sit on a cot in the middle of the er for 4 hours waiting for whatever. After 4 hours I tried to leave, was tasered and quickly sent upstairs where I was involuntarily committed, declared to be bipolar ( my normal psychiatrist was out of town at the time) and heavily medicated. As a result of being put on haldol for several months I developed a blood clot which broke up and gave me multiple pulmonary embolisms in both lungs.

It has been 2 years since all that happened and my psychiatrist gave up his outpatient work so he could focus on his hospital work. He allowed me to get off the antidepressants and to reduce the tegretol to a minor dose since the drugs were only doing harm and no good. When he left I went ahead and got off the tegretol completely and I feel great. No depression, no bipolar nothing but pots (well I feel crumby with that but at least not mental). I went to a counselor after my psychiatrist left to decide if I really was bipolar; she talked to my primary care doctor and then told me all of the negative things he said about me like "I spend too much time researching things on the internet I can't possibly understand". Her point was basically to show that I was too stupid to question my bipolar diagnosis even though I found research that showed significant drops in norepinephrine cause agitation and even violence. That and other statements indicated to me that my pcp did not really take my pots seriously (he never did anything to treat it but he complained I tried to manage the direction of my own care by wanting to go to Vanderbilt).

I dropped the counselor or rather she dropped me because she wanted me back on the drugs and I dropped the pcp since I felt that if I brought anything up to him he would just roll his eyes and think I had just found something else on the internet. I am not even going to mention anything about depression to the new doctor.

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Good grief! I know I spent several months arguing with the PCP I had at the time - when all this started - that I was NOT depressed; I was frustrated! But it seemed he stayed on that track so I fired him.

I think this is an issue most of us end up dealing with... It's easier for the doctor to call it a psych problem and hand out pills than to find the real problem.

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Lazy, Lazy, Lazy----------------yes this is so true-----docs will try to pin a psyc diagnosis on you that actually do some WORK----(you know, their job!) to find out that you really have a physiologic problem.

It was so satisfying when any "PSYCHOLOGICAL" diagnosis was thrown out of my SSDI case, and I was awarded benefits based only on my physical medical problems. When the psychologist tried to speak at my hearing the judge told her , "we are adjourned", then she tried to speak again, and he said, "we are adjourned." This was after he heard the medical expert speak, and thankfully he knew about EDS, and said my prognosis is poor, as EDS is a progressive disorder. I think the EDS diagnosis helped, and don't think I would have gotten SSDI based on POTS alone. The EDS has caused many other musculoskeletal problems, and maybe this is more understood by Docs. POTS is so misunderstood, and before I was diagnosed with the spine issues and EDS, I was also pinned with "anxiety issues", or "depression".

Even after the EDS, a pshycologist tried to say I had Somatization Disorder despite physical evidence on many different radiological reports, and a pst surgery on my cervical spine.

When I was first diagnosed with POTS I wanted to climb out of my own skin, as the ANXIETY was horrible, BUT, it was secondary to my POTS which wasn't diagnosed yet. A psychiatrist prescribed Risperadol before POTs diagnosis ; http://schizophrenia.emedtv.com/risperdal/risperadol.html ----------------after looking at this link, you can clearly see what this is used for. Thank God I never took the drug. It was another psychologist that I saw on my own accord that said I DO NOT have a primary psychological problem, and to fight to find the physical cause for my problems. Of course I was depressed and anxious, I had unexplained tachycardia that scared me, tremors, severe digestion problems, panic attacks--(AKA---excessive sympathetic nervous system activity due to malfunction of ANS), and I was dealing with dismissive and mean doctors.

Imagine how horrible I felt when a nurse stalked me out on this forum and used my posts against me, and attacked me on the phone saying I wasn't that sick at all, and I had an "ANXIETY" issues because I found it difficult to walk through a grocery store. She stated, "she was watching me". Good grief, why would someone go through all this bother? We've got to question their sanity!

What's really sad is that if you try to stand up to some of these really ignorant medical professionals, the more of a pshycologic disorder they'll stamp on your records. I'm the type of person that will look straight at them and tell them they're wrong, and just tell them what I have learned. I don't care if they think I'm nuts because I'm enough of my own advocate to research the credentials of my doctors, research different medications prescribed, or research our a rare medical diagnosis because I need to know about it because my Docs sure don't.

I say, take a chance----------continue to fight for your right as a patient. Don't let anyone pin a psychological diagnosis on you unless you have one. Make sure if you have a co-existing psychological/psychiatric condition that you still get the respect and care you need for your physical problems also. don't let either condition be minimized----------BOTH need to be respected, and given the proper treatment.

Psychological/psychiatric disorders need the right attention too, but only if they really exist. If psychological condition is on the chart of a patient, this does not mean this is a get out of properly caring for a persons's medical condition card. People just can't be diagnosed with this because a doctor is too lazy to look ouside his/her little ignorant box.

Maxine :0)

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I will never understand.

Why, oh why, is trying to "manage one's own care" considered a bad thing? I'm sitting here with the television on tuned into MSNBC. A lot of talk of "health care reform"...across the political spectrum, it's recognized that we NEED people to take responsibility for their own health and health care. We are SUPPOSED to be partners with our doctors. If politicians can recognize this, why, oh why, can't a good portion of our providers get this?

Personally, I've been very, very lucky. I never had my doctors question whether or not there was something medically wrong with me. Years ago, however, when I was having my babies, I had a couple OB offices tell me that I was "crazy" if I believed that any doctor would allow me to deliver in a way that I wanted to....nothing really out of the ordinary, I just wanted natural child birth without interventions. Guess I wasn't too crazy after all as I found several doctors and nurse midwives who were more than happy to accommodate me.

And Maxine, I certainly agree that those with psychological/psychiatric disorders need help, too. In fact, I think that pinning psych diagnoses on patients who don't have them minimize the very seriousness of these disorders and what those who have them are suffering. If I had a serious mental disorder, I'd be ****** insulted by doctors pinning the same diagnosis on someone who didn't even fit the criteria. It would seem to me as if they didn't fully understand the seriousness of the problems I was having.

And sorry...I don't know if one can be "depressed" without, well, being DEPRESSED. Never made sense to me.

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I have heard from several nurses that doctors do not like patients who do research on the internet. They think all of their patients are too stupid to filter out what is not applicable to them. They love stories of women who want to have their prostrates checked. I was tempted to walk into that doctors office and ask for a pelvic exam since men also have pelvises but the sarcasm would escape him I am sure. If I had not managed my own care I would have never been diagnosed I had to figure out what might be wrong with me and find doctors that knew enough about the subject to confirm the diagnosis.

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I have heard from several nurses that doctors do not like patients who do research on the internet. They think all of their patients are too stupid to filter out what is not applicable to them. They love stories of women who want to have their prostrates checked. I was tempted to walk into that doctors office and ask for a pelvic exam since men also have pelvises but the sarcasm would escape him I am sure. If I had not managed my own care I would have never been diagnosed I had to figure out what might be wrong with me and find doctors that knew enough about the subject to confirm the diagnosis.

You know, I could say that our health care system is in the mess it's in because we allowed too much "management" by providers, hospitals, insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, etc. Could we, the lowly patients, make a bigger mess out of things than they have collectively? Medicine is very complicated these days. We aren't going to go back to the times when we could have a family doctor who could be expected to know enough to reasonably diagnose and treat whatever he/she might encounter. Those of us who are reasonable understand this...and heck, we're willing to help with our own care in order to make the system work more efficiently! If we want any kind of healthcare system going into the future, this will have to be recognized.

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Vemee, I don't think she is---------------who knows. I'm on the forum, and anyone can figure out who you are if they try hard enough, and if they have a little help. I always try to keep that in mind, that anything I post may be seen by some psycho that has nothing better do do then to make other people's lives miserable. I couldn't live with myself-----doing that to someone. This nurse had no idea on the actual physical mess my body was in, and had no business taking it upon herself to judge weather on not I quailify for SSDI.

Apparently the medical expert that was appointed for the SSDI hearing was much more qualified then this nurse. He was both an ER doctor and an occupational doctor with an extensive background in medicine, and worked for a well known hospital in Chicago. He said that one report from a Surgeon pretty much summarized everything quite well, and this helped my SSDI case as well.

I know another woman stepped forward with a complaint about the same nurse. I know who she is now. The sad thing is that I was micro-manged for a while after this incident because she apparently influenced some equally psychotic minds. I don't seem to be micro-managed now, but I will be extra vigilant to look for it. I won't allow it to happen again, as I quickly put a stop to it.

I know there was more then one person involved in this effort to make my life miserable, but fortunately I think I made it quite clear I won't let this happen again when I filed my formal complaint.

Always watch your back----even the most sincere people can be the worst offenders.

Maxine :0)

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I am gad that others spoke up and told there nightmare stories. I have too much fear to, as having a psychiatric diagnoses of anxiety made Drs. treat me as if I had no rights. This is why I fear my local medical care. They think they can do anything they want to me. The things that happened to me were unethical, and illegal, but they backed each other up. My only crime was seeking medical help. All of what happened to me was based on how many times I kept coming to the hospital, or doctors office. Not on my behavoir, which was just that of a woman who was sick, and trying to get help, but the psychiatric drugs made me sicker, and by the time I realised that was the problem, then I had to get a doctor to understand that. Vemee, what a horribe story. I understand where you are coming from. I am so sorry that they did that to you. Halodol is banned in I think Europe. Maxine, I am sooooooo glad you didn't take the resperidol. When the doctors decided that I couldn't take another psychiatric drug they had pushed on me they gave me that which one of the side effects is heart racing, and others. Every time I took it (which was thankfully only 3) my heart did like a slam to a stop, then took off to beat at 170 for over an hour, and this was laying down. Even though I went to the ER for this (which I was told to stay home and deal with these symptoms) and said that I thought it was "one" of the new meds they had given me they said no. I went ahead and tried it 2 more times, with the same reaction both times, only I sat home, and let it happen. Then I told them that I would not take them anymore. But unfortunatly that didn't stop them from giving me more, and being that I wanted to feel better, and thought maybe I was just "anxious" (more like hoped I knew there was something really wrong) so I would try them. It doesn't help that I was being threatened into taking them. It is sad to me, because I have to hold so much of this stuff in, and cannot really talk to anyone about it. Like Maxine said with the lady stocking her on here.

Suzy

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Since jajae wrote, I see that this has become a dump zone,WHICH is fine except not always helppful. When I wrote that my doctor said that of course I was depressed. Having this at my age would be depressing. It is so important to realize that there are "mickey mouse" doctors out there.

however, there are good ones. Truth is anxiety and depression do not cause your BP to drop to our levels. When doing research it might be wise to take the list of contra indicated drugs with you. Again autonomic dysfunction can trigger other things, and another diagnosis. Hopefully temporary. Don't stay with a doctor you don't think respects what they don't know and that you know some. I am not ashamed or weary of seeing my psychiatrist. It is a tool. He is awesome. He might not know all about oa, but helps me to cope and will do a check to see what meds are ok to take with this and what maybe not and change.

Jayje, in psychiatry as well as other fields there are some deliniation paths. So as oi is a syndrome there are also some syndromes which iwhen looked at can show something that is helpful. Syndromes.

If you want to pm me I can be more articulate. I a in Hawaii, and there is a 6 hr. difference from eastern time. M

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I found one of the best ways to get support is to find a network of people you can trust, and communicate with them via e-mail----especially on anything you don't necessarily want EVERYONE to read-------------meaning people not normally in the discussion forum who lurk or stalk just to make trouble.

The forum is a good place to come for general support, but I am weary to share some things now due to what happened to me during my long hard battle for SSDI. It was a very difficult decision to file for SSDI after being in the work field for over 22 years, but I knew that working GAINFUL employement was not an option. There isn't an employer I know that would hire me knowing I had these health issues, and never knew from day to day how I would do. I also don't know any employer who is willing to let you make your own hours. When I tried to go back to work there were times it was obvious I had a problem even at the interviews. If I can't handle an interview on some days, how would I do working 40 hours a week? I couldn't even be relied on for working 20 hours a week.

When I worked I had a good commercial collections record for 10 years,, and office mgmt. for 3 years. I also went back to school and took businness, and later a medical terminology/coding proigram. I had a 3.8 average in business, and 4.0 in the medical. Unfortunately I couldn't further my education, nor could I apply my education to a job. I hope some day to do something useful, as I feel lost some days without working. I went back to school later in life after raising a son, and went to school while I worked full time. It was hard on some days, and when I crashed with POTS it was impossible to work. When I improved for a short time after cervical spine surgery, I wet back to school----but didn't work. I wanted to work part time after I completed the medical terminaology program. However, in late 2003 and early 2004 I had a steady decline in health, so I stopped looking for part time work. One woman called just after I was awarded SSDI benefits in late 2007, and offered me a job in financial aid at the very hospital the stalker nurse worked at. I was sick about it, but it was full time anyway. Most of the jobs I interviewed for were full time for medical billing/office.

Filing for SSDI was very difficult and sad, and to have to prove how sick you are at the same time your in denial on how sick you are is a very difficult thing to conquer. When you have an awful person like that nurse just trying to ruin your livlihood for no reason is mind numbing. She was from a trusted Doctor's office, and I had to start all over again learning how to trust in the medical community. I still struggle today, and when a doctor is very nice to me I'm almost put off by it, as I'm not used to being respected-----let alone a doctor actually being kind and sincere.

The point is that even a nurse suggesting an "anxiety" problem based on needless and psychotic stalking can foul up your medical care. Not only was she trying to discredit me with SSDI, claiming I had an anxiety issue, but also said I was a malingerer-----basically trying to scam the SSDI office.

This nurse should have been fired on the spot.

Today, things are a lot different, and I have been validated by several medical experts, geneticists from NIH ect., and I don't feel I have to prove how sick I am anymore. I just want to get better, and not have to deal with any of this.

One positive thing this nurse did was make me wiser to the wickedness. The reason I say "wiser" is because I thought I was one of those people who WAS wise to the wickedness-----but apparently I was caught with my pants down with this one. NEVER AGAIN!

Maxine :0)

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Hey Maxine,

Sounds like we could swap out horror stories. Unfortunatly when I complained, they got even with me. Have a good day.

Suzy

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