POTS and intimacy

[hopeful-girl]

Dancing light that is great you brought that up. I know between puking and just plain feeling crappy I too get that OH I don't feel SO pretty and SEXY feeling. I losse all confidence. That is where my husband doesn't make it any better. It does not help it when I here him say oh so and so is HOT and I get I am cute or pretty. Hey the man has to put me on the pedastal first and make me feel I am hot to him and number one. Then I don't care if he says any one else is hot. But that is just me.

My husband has an internet porn addiction which has really hurt us. So being sick and dealing with that makes me feel really NOT ever good enough. I can not compete with all these beautiful woman out there. And I do not want to. I was an exotic dancer for years and know what it is like to be around SO many beautiful woman. But I did learn that the woman that are the most beautiful are the ones that make their personality shine. I knew this one gal. She was a little chunky and she had a big booty which to me fit her well ;-). She used to put her self down all the time. But I tell ya she was an awesome persona witha stunning personality that made her gorgeous (SP?) and mad her better looking than any barbie doll type!! I really know I am not ugly and I am pretty I think ;-0. But I sure do not feel it any more. My face has changed since I Have been really sick. I notice my eyes are more sunk in and I get darker circles under my eyes and I have very strained facial expressions, especially when I am really not feeling well.

For me on my really bad days. I make my self get up and get my make-up on and do my hair and dress nice. It is really hard for me to do this but I do it for me and no one else. It does not improve the way I feel physically. But it does help with the way I feel about my self and at least I do not look like death warmed over LOL even though I may feel like it *giggle*

As I tell my daughter who is 14 with a low self esteem. It is what is on the inside and it is your personality that makes you beautiful. Let your personailty shine and so will you. well I should eat my words I speak LOL

[melly4]

Morgan, you are not "bossy", just truthful. I thank everyone for their support. I actually felt stronger after reading Morgan's and others' posts. I used to feel so strong, independent, beautiful, and yes, sexy. I still get the glances. After reading so many of your posts, I have come to realize that my lack of sexual desire is not because of my illness, but perhaps because of who I am with. Women, too, can have a strong sexual drive, but if they are with a partner who isn't emotionally satisfying to them, it can be a real "turn off." I'm tired of my husband ignoring me when I'm talking to him or sharing my interests. I had such an incredible sex drive until I married him and felt like the proverbial "trophy wife". He flaunted me to his friends. I sometimes think he only married me for sex, which bothers me. A happy relationship is one that is fulfilled in ALL aspects of love.

No longer will I let him affect my self-esteem. I am a great mother and a great friend. If he can't see that I'm a great wife, despite my illness, who needs him? As Cher once said, "I answer to two people: God and myself, in that order."

Okay, sorry for the speech, I'm done.

Melly

[Dizzy Dame]

Hey there melly,

It sounds like you're having a really difficult time. Have you thought about couples therapy? I know that my boyfriend and I are considering it so we can learn how to argue more productively (if there is such a thing).

Couples therapy also saved my parents' marriage. Several years ago, they didn't even live in the same country as one another due to differences, but after years of therapy, the live together and have revived their relationship.

However, you know what's right, and what will help. I hope things get better for you. It's bad enough being sick let alone having to worry about a partner who doesn't "get it''.

Best of luck,

lauren

[morgan617]

Wow, this is a great thread. I look in the mirror, and go, oh not so bad, then my son will snap a picture of me and I think, who is that hag? And realize it's me! But my hubs says I'm still beautiful and we both agree we never were in the top 100 for most beautiful people. We have both changed. I never feel sexy any more, but I do feel loved. The internet can be a horrible place melly. I'm sorry about the addiction. I hope he can work through it.

I spend a lot of time with my son, because he has illness issues, and we talk about what's on the inside, not the outside. If all relationships were built only on looks, we'd all be toast after awhile....

We just have to learn to accept ourselves, warts and all, then it doesn't really matter how others perceive us. When we love ourselves, others can't help but love us, big booties, little booties, whatever....morgan

[Sophia3]

Hopeful girl,

I was saddened to hear you are dealing with the addiction of Internet porn. This is such a SECRETIVE widespread problem, you may or may not know.

PLEASE know that your husband's addiction has nothing to do WITH YOU.

Men may try to place guilt about their women "You are never in the mood, so what am I supposed to do?" kind of tactics. It's just as real as if it was another woman in person.

Due to the anonymity of the Internet, pornography IS the driving force of the Internet. MUCH like porn videos is what made the first VCR's so popular and affordable!!! due to the demand. ain't that nice to have pornographers for making my VCR so affordable way back when.

My therapist told me she knows of a woman, WHO'S SOLE PURPOSE in her job, is to search the laptops of men at a TOP FIRM IN THE COUNTRY. Her job? To look for porn and so far, she has found it on most EVERY COMPUTER.

I am no prude but do wonder what drives this in people. Or should I say, I know addiction is addiction (just different manifestations: drugs, booze, food) but does anybody ever think about this? :

Years ago, to get a dirty magazine (I am not talking Playboy but the hard core stuff) a man had to WALK INTO A STORE and face somebody, and either pick up or ask a person for a certain 'men's magazine' behind the counter. Then, you had to pay for this magazine in PERSON. That took nerve to go in public and ask for such material. Now, you can get ANYTHING in the privacy of your own home.

The Internet is WONDERFUL in many ways, but scarey and horrible in others.

I hope you are able to seek counseling for you and your husband or just yourself. I am glad you are teaching your daughter good values.

But somehow, this topic came up at one of my therapy sessions and my therapist is almost 70. She said sexual addictions are SO RAMPANT as she has never seen in all her years of being a therapist. This is due to a complexity of reasons but the media fascination on what is "hot" (I sometimes want to VOMIT when I hear that word!?) is over the top. Then there is the term..well, I can't even type the initials here but I heard them used on Trumps' the APPRENTICE last year and was enraged it was NEVER BROUGHT UP BY THE MEDIA????????

Remember when being thin enough was the problem. Well now it's plastic breasts, plastic lips (what IS IT with these overblown lips? Do women think it looks good?) cheek implants, Botox...but to such EXTREMES!

The fascination on 'sick sexy celebrities' doesn't help. Those famous for being famous or infamous (Don't get me started on Paris Hilton)

Anyway, I felt saddened to hear of your situation ...and of others in relationships in which there is a struggle. Especially in being appreciated. Everybody deserves to be treated like they are the most special person on earth.

And as I once heard said "NEVER let somebody else's opinion of you, become your reality". We are all beautiful just in different ways.

I hope those of you who are feeling unappreciated will look in the mirror and if you think you deserve more, tell that reflection in the mirror. And then do something about it.

Take of yourselves.

[Ernie]

HI,

Me again,

Well it's getting obvious that my favorite topic is sex!

When we have family gathering that's mostly what we talk about and boy do we find the subject interesting! I am glad to learn that there are other families like mine.

[Sophia3]

Wow, Morgan, while I was editing my post, you were posting and said similar things that I did...especially about how other people percieve us.

Wow..that is weird. But good weird.

Oh, I just remembered it was motivational speaker, Les Brown who was told that comment about 'never let other people".

[melly4]

Hopeful Girl,

I'm sorry that your life, too, has been affected by porn addiction. Don't feel alone. After my husband and I had our first child, I found his "stash" of hard-core pornographic tapes. I was shocked. He was raised in a strong Christian family, graduated from Bob Jones University, and had promised me when he asked me to marry him that he was not into that stuff. I asked because I had a small child at the time from a previous marriage and didn't want him around that. I later found out that he was a sex addict, that he frequented strip clubs on his first wife, and that he had been addicted to the porn tapes since he was young and had found his father's "stash" of magazines when he was a little boy.

I am no prude, either, but I know that this affects people's marriages and small children if they were to find this sort of thing and not understand. It has been spoken about in my church. And, yes, the internet has made this even more accessible to everyone. It's one thing for a couple to view porn together, but it's cheating if one does it without their partner. It has also contributed to the inability for me to be intimate with my husband, among other things. Who wants to have sex with someone who can't be romantic and lies all of the time? He has learned from porn that women are objects to be used and they don't have feelings. I refuse for my sons to learn sex from a magazine or a video.

You're a good mom to try so hard to build up your daughter's self-esteem.

Lauren, thanks for the support. I couldn't get my husband to therapy. He says it's not a problem anymore, but he's lied so many times, I don't know if I could believe him anymore. Frankly, another country sounds like a good place for him to be!! We're trying to work through it. But if my children were older, I'd be gone!! Don't worry, though. We are talking some, and he understands I need for him to be more supportive of my illness. He's been asking around work this weekend about the cardiologist I'm seeing Wed. That really made me happy to hear that he was doing that. So, he either must care or he's afraid I'm going to leave. I was watching "Breaking Bonaduce" last night on VH1 and decided I didn't have it so bad. His wife's way more co-dependent than I am!!

Boy, have we opened up a big can of worms with this thread!!

Melly

[morgan617]

I have taught my sons that the reason porn is out there, is because there are a lot of hurt and damaged women who have been taught to think nothing of themselves, except that they are only good for pain and exploitation. I explained that the majority of these women have been horrifically abused in some way and never recovered and are now just being abused even more.

I am very open about my abuse and the ramifications it has had on my life. They are well aware of the damage it does. So I ask them if I should do porn and hear an instant no. I say why not, every other woman out there degrading herself for men is someone's mother, daughter, sister, even wife. Why should I be more special? Neither one of my sons is into porn. My oldest doesn't even have internet, and my hubs has checked our younest son's periodically. In fact, one time my youngest told us he went to a porn site and it was gross. I told him it was gross because it wasn't about love, sex, making love or anything good. It was about evil being done to people. And vulnerable people allowing it.

I also believe this is not about YOU. This is his sick thing. And it is sick. If a man is not willing to get help, then the relationship will not get healthy. You need to go by yourself to therapy and get it sorted out. What you should do. This is a time when an objective view is essential. Otherwise, you can come up with every excuse in the world to put up with it. The end result is the same. This is hurting the wife as much as the addict and the kids. And trust me, the kids will find those sites at some point and then what do you tell them. It's okay...not. I allow it because you're little. Whatever, the end result is the same. It is difficult to raise healthy children in a bug infested house. Get rid of the bug or the carrier.

Please get help for yourselves, even if he won't go. It will help you more than you could ever know. It is empowering to stand up and say, I can make this decision and follow through with it. hurtingforyoumorgan

[hopeful-girl]

Hi Sophia. Ya I know it is a terrrible addiciton and he knows its an addiction to. I think what I hate the most is every time I leave the house and am gone for a few hours I know what he is doing and when I get home I am a cranky B***** with him. And he wonder why LOL DUH

See I am one of these different woman. I am not conservative or against porn. I beleive any thing is healthy with in reason. Ah here I am bearing my soul and some people may be grudge me just because I am a woman not against porn. But oh well that is me. I just don't like that fact that in the beginning. He lied to me all the time and did for many years and we have fought many battles over it. I had never been on a PC before Mike. And we have been together almost 8 years. SO he did not initiate me to internet porn in a positive way if that makes sence. He had to be sneaky and devious like he was doing some thing bad. That is not a positive experience. If he would of said hey hon would you be interested in sharing this with me. Hmm well i would of be open minded enough to check it out. And if it was not for me well then it's not. But to be obsessive about it is a bit over board and is very damaging to the relationship

Actually two weekend ago I went to San Fran. My councelor suggested i just ask him one NOT to at all while I am gone and see what he says. And if I come home and he has then tell him what the consequences will be. SO I left and I cam home and well YEP he surfed for hours. I did NOT yell. He came home and asked how my day was and weekend was and I told him and then I told him that he PROVED to me this weekend he had NO respect for me and that caused allot of anger and frustration with me and I that I told him what the consequences were and I went about my own stuff. He sat in the office for 3 hours doing nothing but thinking. I came back into my office and he said he wanted to talk. He looked at me and told me He does NOT want to loose me! I told him then this needs to be a big issue we work threw in counceling beccause I just lost my respect for you.

We are seeking couples counceling . There are SO many reasons I stay with this man. He is not a drunk or drug addict, he does not abuse me or my kids. He is there for us. Even though I am sick he deals with it and never puts me down. So there are allot of positives that make it worth while to try to work things out in counceling. And I really HOPE we do. It woul dbe worth it. But if not I am also at the age it is time to move on ;-).

OH Sorry so long. I tend to do that LOL

Cheers every one and i hope every one has a decent day and has strenght to get threw it. I am thinking about all of you.

[Dizzy Dame]

On another note... I've been trying to think of a way I can feel sexy again since I've gotten sick. I know that alot of people tend to gain weight with POTS because of all the fluids and salt, but I've been loosing weight. I'm right on the border between "healty skinny" and "sickly skinny", and my mother tells me that I'm beginning to look like I have cancer. It's been really difficult feeling beautiful. One thing I've been doing is accessorizing.

I've gone on ebay and bought some affordable, pretty jewelry. Lots of earrings. I've learned that if I wear pretty things around my face, it distracts people from my bony frame, and the cane (which has become a third leg for me). Now I get compliments when I go out. I've had people stop me on the street and ask about my earrings. Maybe doing something like that may help some of you girls out there who feel "not-so-hot". Plus I haven't spent more than $50 on the whole collection.

Just a suggestion...

Stay beautiful,

Lauren

(post edited on 10/24)

[melly4]

I just wanted to say I'm sorry for all of those who have been hurt by porn addiction, mental, physical, and sexual abuse by their spouses, boyfriends, or parents. It is a lifelong trauma that never "goes away", no matter how much therapy you've had.

Morgan, thanks for "getting it". Porn is degrading to women . Period.

Hugs,

Melly

[Sophia3]

Hopeful Girl

I am sorry you have this MOST difficult situation as it is one of the worst addictions. You know, I don't listen daily as I opposed his political viewpoints, but when Rush Limbaugh came back to work and out of rehab, he mentioned the center where he went treated ALL ADDICTIONS.

But sadly, sex addiction is one of the toughest to break. For instance, all had paper work to sign about home work assignment and out patient recovery. Rush said he signed about 5-6 pieces of paper. The sex addicts had like 20 pages. So right there, sex addicts have many more layers to sift thru to deal with their illness.

I don't judge if people want to watch sexy movies together. If you feel comfortable in the situation that is fine. BUT I do think there is a difference in the degrees of porn...soft core, hard core, then really sick XXX stuff. Some lump it all together and I don't know what everybody thinks or does. It's really none of my business. But if there is a kid in the house, then I get very concerned.

The bottom line, if there is any sneaking, lying or deceit about this, then that is indeed a form of abuse. Abuse doesn't have to by physical, as I think most all know. But the psychological form and the spiritual form, can sometimes be worse than a smack. (I AM AGAINST PHYSICAL VIOLENCE dont get me wrong)

But the subtleties and nuances of a relationship that "seems" ok~~ in other areas ~~except this one "secretive fixation", I believe still filters in through other parts of one's life.

I call it dancing around the elephant in the room that nobody wants to see is there. But that's just me. There are many things I can forgive in a person..actually anything. But they must do their share of what they say, what they promise, and most of all, the follow through on their actions.

I hope you will examine your life and continue to get counseling. Do keep us posted on how you are doing about this situation if and when you feel the need.

It was great of so many of you to open up about a dark world that many like to pretend "never happens to nice people". But it can happen to any of us.

[Michelle Sawicki]

Hi guys,

I don't want any "porn is good vs. porn is not good" debates, so please do not take the porn discussion further.

Thanks,

Michelle

[MightyMouse]

Ditto. Please keep discussions relevant to dysautonomia. Nina

[melly4]

Please familiarize yourself with the forum rules before posting again.

Michelle Sawicki

Edited October 25, 2005 by Michelle Sawicki

[hopeful-girl]

Woo-Hoo Me too LOL I am an ebay addict LOL. I LOVE to accesories more than I ever have. So on really bad days when I just wan tto lay there and do absolutely nothing I get up and shower and accesories LOL It does make ya feel good doesn't it? I may still be my normal self on the insided but at least my spirits are a litte higher.

[hopeful-girl]

I truly apologize I never meant for this to be a debate like that. I just want that to be clarified. I do feel like I caused a problem here since I stated my husband had the addcition and it is a problem for me. That is all I meant it to be about! I was not meant to be a debate about porn! I hope my apology is accepted. I did NOT mean it any other way!

Sincerely,

Corina (hopeful-girl)

[morgan617]

Corina, sometimes threads just take on a life of their own, which is why we have moderators. I also hope nothing I said was offensive.

I used to wear make up and felt I had pretty eyes. The underneath part is now filled with all my laundry and the uppers are as wrinkled as prunes. For some reason at 50, I get zits, yes ladies zits at 50, when I wear foundation.

So i try to wear my most flattery clothes (is that a word I just invented?) when we go out. Around the house I am just not up to it. I am allergic to metals so can't wear either wedding ring. MAN.. So I went out and bought this PLASTIC ring to wear when I go out so everyone knows I'm with my man and glad I am.

I have also grown my hair out and try to make it look nice. It is pretty curly and people now say, who does your hair, it's great! I say it's a God perm. Funny how no one ever says is it naturally curly, they always say, who perms your hair. See it's that perfect...snork snork morgan

[Sophia3]

Morgan

I ALWAYS wanted curly hair and used to pay the bucks for it but they wouldn't last. You are lucky to have hair that folks comment on if it's natural.

Hopeful girl

I hope nobody was offended by what I said either. It's like Morgan said, sometimes threads take a life of their own or get hijacked. I think with intimacy problems, many like yourself were just painfully honest with what your current situation was...and like all stress, no doubt affects your illness!!

So, I never meant it to be a debate about porn either and should not have pontificated on the subject. Please don't feel bad for sharing your problem about it here...that took a LOT of courage.

I hope you find help for yourself. You seem to have a lot on your plate right now.

[hopeful-girl]

Thank you Sophia and Morgan for that. I really was feeling bad! I am one of these people I just talk and I am so excited to find this board and open up and come out of my shell. So this was and is a new adventure for me. By doing so I hope to be able to become stronger and maybe contribute some thing back too besides gaining more strenght.

I so far LOVE this board and am SO thankful for it. I think for me it has and is becoming a great part of my support system.

Cheers

Corina

[Sophia3]

Cheers back at you, Corina

[DancingLight]

corina,

at some point or another most all of us have been guilty of getting too off topic or violating the forum rules--so don't beat yourself up over it!

the moderators work very hard to keep the board safe and positive...

emily

[MightyMouse]

Intimacy is a fair game topic--but the issue is when the topics drift to things like religion, politics, etc. This is not a blog where you're free to post your personal opinion on every topic in every far reaching corner of the universe...

This forum is a membership only place to discuss issues relevant to the health & daily functioning of people with dysautonomia and their caregivers. You may post what you like within the bounds of our forum rules here. If you want absolute free speech, get a blog and get on your soapbox and blast away. This is NOT the place for that. We make it quite clear this is MODERATED site. Michelle choose to do it that way to avoid the pitfalls of unmoderated discussion forums...

The forum has rules for a reason--those who've been here long enough have lived through really difficult times and know WHY we have the rules and don't want to relive mistakes. I, personally, am quite comfortable with the openess of this forum. Everytime a rule gets broken, whether you realize it or not, there is a flurry of activity in the background, from emails, private messages to phone calls between moderators. I have had to let go of feeling bad about editing...it's a small cost for a forum that is safe and productive most of the time. For the most part, people follow the forum rules, which if you've not read them, are posted here and I STRONGLY suggest you read and refresh yourself if you've not looked at them in a while:

http://dinet.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=5

Michelle has put a lot of time into updating the guidelines with explanations. Basic upshot for this thread: nothing obscene, and that doesn't mean just what YOU think might be obscene, but what OTHERS might think is obscene. There are wide variety of members who come from all sorts of backgrounds---and that shouldn't matter with regard to what they are able to get from this forum...

HELP for dealing with DYSAUTONMIA. End of my rant...mostly because I'm too tired to say more. If you think you stepped over the line, don't fret... just move on and keep the guidelines more in mind in the future.

Nina

[dawn]

Lauren,

You seem to have struck upon a topic that alot of us struggle with. I have lost my sexual desire completely. I know beta blockers have an effect, but it is much more.

Sex takes energy, something I use up just living. It's hard to accept because it's another part of our life that we have to give up. I feel like this illness has robbed me of almost everything that brought me pleasure before I was ill.

My husband understands but is frustrated. I know he wants to be intimate and I feel very guilty. Of course I could make a list of things I feel guilty about not doing.

Wish I was feeling witty and could offer some humor on this subject but I'm not.

Dawn