Furious about professor's comments

[PattiL]

Hi everyone,

Flames are shooting thru my veins right now. Chrissy had an appt. with her Math Prof. late last week to try and work out how she should catch up on her missing work. MOST of the prof's have just given her a little extra time since she was out for probably a good three weeks total. It just happened she missed more of this class b/c it's a morning class AND not feeling well. (He himself just missed 6 weeks, I believe due to illness). She went over the POTS situation again (Disabilities and she herself gave him info in the beginning of the semester). She also gave him one of the new POTS pamplets, which he glanced at and gave right back. He then said, "Have you considered the fact that maybe you just don't belong here and shouldn't be attending a four-year college!" "Just my opinion". She said it took everything in her not to start crying . She's trying so hard. She did very well in community college and will be getting A's or B's in her other classes. I don't want her to have this idiots comments stick with her.

I am furious---but keeping my mouth shut for now.

She and some other students spoke to the head of the Math Division at the college today and then she privately told him her situation.

(He gave them a test today, a week before finals, which I guess is not permitted unless it's on the sylabus, which it wasn't) Of course, I'm sure for legal reasons, he didn't comment too much on what the Prof. told her, but said he'd speak to him and try to work something out for her. BUT, he said the final decision would be the Prof.'s. Which I find hard to believe.

I would love to write a letter to the dean of the school, disabilities, head of math dept. and an attorney, if I need too, but

Chrissy (wisely I think), says to wait until she gets some type of answer back from the head of the dept.

Have any of you run across anything like this? I will wait until she gets a grade, maybe she'll get an incomplete. Who and what should I do first.

Thanks guys,

Patti

[Dizzy Dame]

Hi there,

I'm a college student right now, so I'm used to dealing with profesors; however I have never been treated that way by any of them. My professors (so far) have been kind and understanding. I would talk to the dean now, rather than watiting for the grade to come in. And honestly, if you think your daughter is going to fail, and the dean is reluctant, you may want to withdraw her from the class (if it can be done). Also, I'm not sure if any laws are being violated here but it probably wouldn't hurt to talk to a lawyer...scare it up a little

I feel for your daughter. It has been very, very, very difficult trying to stay afloat in school with POTS...I mean I've missed over half of this semester between hospital stays, and being bedridden. I'm sure she'll do fine though, she's probably really tough.

Cheers,

Lauren

[JenniferInOhio]

Ooooh - I would be so mad right now. As a mom, I would want to go to the Dean also - that comment was uncalled for!! Grrrr!!!

[India]

At the college at which I teach we give students incompletes (an "I" appears on their transcript) until they can complete the work for a course. Thus, I have a couple of students with medical problems this semester which have prevented them from finishing a couple of assignments. They will therefore finish up the fall semester in the spring. When they've finished, I will change their "I" to whatever grade they ultimately earn. If your daughter has completed the majority of the work for the semester, there should be no reason not to give her an incomplete. But incompletes are generally only given if most of the work has been completed in the allotted semester.

Beyond that, unfortunately, I agree with Lauren that, insensitive as the Prof may be, I don't think he is breaking any laws. ADA laws at schools only require the professor to make accomodations that are specifically mandated and which should have been communicated to the professor by student services, or whomever is responsible for enforcing ADA laws at the college, at the beginning of the semester. I get notices at the begining of each course requiring that I give students double or time and a half for exams etc. He should have received such notification. But he is not required by law to go beyond that.

Of course, there's the law and then there's the spirit of the law which it seems he doesn't quite appreciate...

Commiserations,

India

[taylortotmom]

If the Prof was out for six weeks he probably has some issues of his own. No excuse for the way he acted but might add some light to his bad attitutde. Or, he might be trying to push her buttons to see how bad she really wants to be in college. Or he could just be a jerk. Either way he behaved inappropriately to say the least. I have no advice just a growl ARRRRRRRRRGHHHH!!!!!!!

Carmen

[dizzygirl]

GEEZ!!!!!!!!! what a freggin' jerk! How dare he tell her that maybe she shouldnt be trying to go to a 4 yr. college!!

Oh that is just wrong....

Just b/c a disability is involved doesnt mean that "we" dont have the right to attend to school/college!!.. Nobody has the right to incinuate or say or try to pursuade you to get an education.. its your own god given right and choice!!

Just wanted to add my 2cents on the subject.. hope that professor check a reality check like yesterday!

Edited December 7, 2005 by dizzygirl

[PattiL]

Thanks for all your comments guys! I think I'm going to respect Chrissy's wishes for now and stay quiet. She should get some more information on Thursday when she has the class again. I just hope and pray he doesn't say any other unkind remarks. He's older (in his 70's) and should know better--but it takes all kinds I guess. I just don't want her to fail the class. We're actually both hoping for an incomplete, then maybe she could finish everything up during Xmas break (just what she wants to do!)

Thanks again for your support, it really means alot to both of us. I'll keep you posted.

Patti

[Evie]

What a Jerk!

I have come across some not so nice teachers. When my blood pressure was really low a few years back i tried to move my exams as i could not think strait at the time. It was a business college so was supposed to be setting us up for the workforce. One lecturer said to me "You will just have to learn how to manage your time better as in the workforce you cant shift deadlines". Basically meaning too bad if you are sick, deal with it. Lucky for me the head of school was really supportive as were the other teachers. I did cry, i am hopeless at keeping the tears at bay. So good on chrissy for being able to supress them!

At university i have only had supportive lecturers thank goodness. One of my tutors did tell me that there that my problems were not bad and there was a more ill person in our tutorial. I then explained to her i may faint randomly and she was like, oh really? She was not trying to be mean i dont think, i think it may have been more ignorence. The other boy in the class was in a wheelchair and had aids helping him, i am unsure what he was afflicted with though.

Good luck chrissy! Is it a compulsary subject? If worst case senario you did not pass would you have to suffer the jerk again? I have had to repeat subjects before, i realise its a horrible thing to do when it is due to illness not lazyness.

[cnm1]

((Patti)) and ((Chrissy))

I think calling him a jerk is too nice!! I would let Chrissy do it her way and see what happens. Is Chrissy ok with an "I"? At 70, he is not likely to change and as long as he complys with her accommodations, no laws are broken. BUT after she is done with the class, Chrissy might want to write a letter of complaint. She might also want to write a letter then to the prof - and explain another viewpoint about disabled students. that just because they take longer to complete their education, doesn't mean that they don't belong there. In fact, they need professional level educations to support themselves even more then healthy people. Neither Chrissy or Rachel will be standing all day on an assembly line. With a professional education, even if they have to work part time they should be able to support themselves. Also, if a person's body is failing, at least let them use what they have left - their mind.

When we were visiting colleges, I arranged meetings with the disabilities offices. At one college (Rachel 1st choice until then - Juniata College in PA), the DISABILITY PERSON told Rachel she did not see how Rachel could possibly go tot college with her disability!!!! THis happened before I was invited to enter the room. When I was invited in I could tell something was wrong - Rachel looked awful. This idiot then went on to complain about the expectations of students with disabilities etc. I was in shock. I held my tongue because I did not know what had already happened. She also went on to complain about students with GEDs who think they can handle college. (I have a GED and then 8 years of college- straight A's) Rachel was amazed that I didn't reach over and strangle her. So unfortunately these thing do happen.

Good luck - I have be meaning to email you but it has been hectic here.

Louise

[persephone]

Hey,

You know that I am the one who has ranted on this board more than ANYONE about the way I hve been treated by Oxford! but it's not my tutors that are being difficult- anyone who's read my posts will know that I have an AMAZING tutor who is behind me all the way.

No, instead it's the actual college that have been making things really difficult (Oxford is made up of 40 little 'colleges' where you have your teaching and where you live; hence it's called a Collegiate college). My college tried to get me to leave and asked me similar questions to the one that STUPID professor asked your daughter. I sat and smiled last time they did it and said "You know what? I could leave it would be very easy, but I have the RIGHT to be here, so I'm not going to."

The professor CANNOT make your daughter leave the course. This would be illegal and amount to discrimination on the grounds of disability. If I were you, I'd get on the case with the dean right away, regardless of what Chrissy says. Because Chrissy has you behind her, but what about the next student who encounters such discrimination, who may NOT have such support? they would probably end up quitting, which would be awful.

I'm trying to decide how to pursue matters with my college; I haven't made a formal complaint yet as I'm too bust trying to stay afloat here, but the bursar just this morning emailed me to tell me that he won't allow me to move to a ground floor room that would allow me to escape in the event of a fire (I'm upstairs and our lift doesn't work when the alarm goes off. THere is no mobile phone reception in here, my room is so small my wheelchair doesn't fit in it, and I have been moved half a mile away from catering facilities, despirte the fact that on 4 or 5 days each week I am really too ill to stand up long enough to prepare a meal for myself.)

don't accept the unacceptable- tell Chrissy she is an able young woman who can overcome these ridiculous obstacles!

[briarrose]

I'm very irritated at the way he treated her.

I agree with Lauren, Definitely better to go to the Dean now rather than later. I would also go to the ADA office and maybe consult with an attorney. If you have a employee assistance through work, sometimes they can recommend an attorney and your first hour is free.

I'm sorry that your daughter had to experience this attitude. I hope that she realizes this as a lesson in life and what kind of jerks are out in the world and try not to take it personally.

good luck

steph

[shannon]

Hi,

Wow. People can be so ignorant about illness sometimes!! I'm a college student right now, and I dealt with a couple of teachers like that in high school. I think Chrissy has the right idea talking to the head of the department. Maybe it would be a good idea to have the disablities office contact the math department before fall semester is over. That way there would be some powerful voices backing you up. Hang in there!!

[PattiL]

O.K. guys, you've convinced me not to wait. I'm waiting for Chrissy to send me a copy of her conversations so that I have all the information I need in front of me before we call. My husband will proabably be the one calling, he's much more articulate and seems to be able to get under people's skin better than I.

To add salt to her wounds, another one of her teachers yelled at her today for not coming in to speak with her. This teacher sent all the kids in the class an e-mail stating they could come in today (which is their normal class day), or tomorrow between 9 and 1:30. Chrissy called her for whatever reason I don't know and mentioned to her that she'd stop in tomorrow. The teacher started yelling and said "tomorrow is only for the students who have class tomorrow--not for you, I just didn't specify that on my e-mail b/c it was simplier to write this way" WHAT?!?!?!?! Where are these idiots coming from. This is a private school for crying out loud--stupid me, I thought b/c we were paying out of our *** we'd have quality teachers? ARGH!!!!

I'll let you know what happens after hubby speaks with them. I know I wouldn't want to be on the other end of that conversation!

Patti

[MightyMouse]

Patti, firstly, the older teacher would have had all his training way before the ADA went into effect. At some point, he'll have to get in line with the regs or the school will be liable for his behavior. Sorry she's gone through the humiliation from him. That's awful.

On a great note, I attend a public university...and they have great support for people with disabilities. They gave me a special letter to give to all my professors at the start of the semester. My profs have been very helpful when I've needed to miss class. One even suggested which person to ask to get notes from b/c he had a pretty good idea about who was taking good notes that I could actually use to study from. My letter from the disability office states that I will need accomodations in the form of considerations when absent due to medical necessity. It also directs the prof to call the disability office with any concerns or questions.

I hope you get this worked out satisfactorily. If not, maybe consider a different university that has a strong disability policy and office to support the implementation of the policies.

Nina