Could EMF and Dirty Electricity be contributing to Dysautonoma POTS?

[jayut]

I have been doing some research and it appears that EMF and Dirty Electricity has a direct affect on VGCC. We know that VGCC auto-antibodies create VGCC dysfunction and can cause dysautonomia. Therefore, is it reasonable to hypothesis that EMF and Dirty Electricity may be contributing to or exacerbating dysautonomia via effects on VGCC?

 

1. EMF effects on VGCC: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3780531/
2. Calcium Channel Blockers seem to block the effects of EMF on VGCC: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3780531/
3. However, Rx calcium channel blockers seem counterproductive for POTS: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4517341/
4. Magnesium is a natural Calcium Channel Blocker: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1751-7176.2011.00538.x 
   • "Oral magnesium acts as a natural calcium channel blocker, increases nitric oxide, improves endothelial dysfunction, and induces direct and indirect vasodilation.”
5. Here is a very old dinet topic on Magnesium: 

 

I am starting with 120 mg Mg Glycinate BID and working-up slowly. Also, trying to make changes in my home to reduce EMF.

What do you think?

[Pistol]

@jayut - I live in a very rural area of WV near a radio observatory - telescope. Due to the sensitivity of the radar this is a cell-tower free zone and there are no high - output powerlines. There are only woods and nature around us, mostly national forest, no highways, very clean. A lot of EMF-sensitive people move here from all over the nation to get relief of their ( real or imagined, I cannot comment on that ) symptoms. Many feel better here, there are even entire retreats for these sufferers here. Well - I moved here in 2003 and started with POTS in 2004, full-blown by 2009. So - in my case I guess the theory does not fit. 

Regarding your comments on calcium channel blockers:

12 hours ago, jayut said:

• Calcium Channel Blockers seem to block the effects of EMF on VGCC: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3780531/
• However, Rx calcium channel blockers seem counterproductive for POTS

I ahev hyperadrenergic POTS which causes severe and sudden vasoconstriction. I could not function without it. It may be counterproductive in people with excessive vasodilation but that is not the only mechanism of POTS. 

[MeganMN]

Super interesting topic.  Caught my interest right away.  My husband and I have been talking about all of this because we are on a solar system and we have discussed the "dirty power" theory as well as the EFM coming off of our Inverter and such.  Kind of freaks me out, but I do not need anything else to be freaked out about! Good read, thanks for the info.  For the record, as a test, we spent about 6 months turning the breaker off upstairs where all of us were sleeping and we felt better, more rested.  We have both had more issues with fatigue, brain fog, etc. since being on the solar.

[jayut]

The thought of electrical hypersensitivity sickness scares me. I have a friend who is affected and she had to move out into the country in a small trailer. I've installed some emi filters this week and this friend is coming on Friday with all her fancy measuring gadgets to inspect my house.

[Jason_X]

I am a scientist and I worked on designs for detectors for detecting a variety of electromagnetic wavelengths. I have good news.  Low frequency electromagnetic waves in our environment are harmless, in my experience.  

There are limited ways in which an EM field can interact with a human body. With high frequency waves, the energy of the photons interact with the molecules. This is usually referred to as “ionizing” radiation, and occurs when the energy of the photos is high enough to cause chemical reactions.  Gamma rays can cause cancer.  Ultraviolet light can cause a sun burn.  As you go lower in frequency, visible light won’t cause any harm.  As you go lower, you might feel the warmth from the infrared of a light bulb. The photons from a 5G cell phone have about 1/10,000 the energy than the highest energy photons from your flashlight.  We are constantly being bathed in harmless and NECESSARY infrared radiation from our surroundings.

Okay, so what about non-ionizing radiation?  For this case, we’ll consider either static or relatively slowly oscillating fields (5G and below).

Static: Your body has fairly high electric fields across all of your cell membranes, even in your brain.  We live in a natural constant electric field just by being on the surface of the earth.  Walking across carpet in the winter will typically result in over 1000 volts between you and the door knob.  These fields are harmless.

5G cell phone frequencies and below: For oscillating external fields to interact with your body, they’d need to couple energy into your body. Your body is a terrible antenna, so this just doesn’t happen in any meaningful way. A microwave oven is able to heat water molecules because it’s essentially holding the food between two plates (efficiently forcing the field through the food) and blasting it with about 1000 watts of power. Virtually all of the power gets channeled into the food. This frequency is MUCH too low to cause direct ionization, and it heats by causing the water molecules to vibrate.  Your cell phone operates at about 15 watts, and virtually zero percent of that energy gets absorbed by your body. Any energy that is absorbed will be harmless, low intensity heat. Consider a 15 flashlight bulb next to your head. You might feel a little bit of warmth if the bulb were pressed against your skin, where all of that energy is concentrated where the bulb is touching you.  However, if that radiation is spread throughout your skull, it would still heat your head less than if you were wearing a winter hat. Since your head is a terrible antenna, only a miniscule fraction of that 15 watts would get absorbed by your head.

Some people have hypothesized that cell phones might be able to disrupt brain signals when the phone is held next to someone’s head.  However, the induced electric fields from your cell phone will be MANY orders of magnitude lower than what naturally exist across the cell membranes in your brain. I did some calculations a while back, and I seem to remember that the natural fields were millions or billions times higher. 

Occasionally, you’ll see an article published about detrimental EMF effects.  The problems that I’ve seen with these reports include

• They tend to report numbers that are barely statistically discernible
• The data seems to be cherry picked.
• It can’t be reproduced by anyone else (very important)

• Some of the original studies were proven to be fraud, and the researcher was fired

Interesting story:  I helped a scientist run an experiment in a magnet laboratory at MIT years ago.  They were measuring electronic properties of materials in extremely high magnetic fields.  We had to left our wallets out of the room because the magnets would erase any magnetic strips.  However, the facility had zero concerns about humans being in the room while the experiment were being run.

[Natops]

On 4/5/2019 at 5:12 AM, Pistol said:

@jayut - I live in a very rural area of WV near a radio observatory - telescope. Due to the sensitivity of the radar this is a cell-tower free zone and there are no high - output powerlines. There are only woods and nature around us, mostly national forest, no highways, very clean. A lot of EMF-sensitive people move here from all over the nation to get relief of their ( real or imagined, I cannot comment on that ) symptoms. Many feel better here, there are even entire retreats for these sufferers here. Well - I moved here in 2003 and started with POTS in 2004, full-blown by 2009. So - in my case I guess the theory does not fit. 

Regarding your comments on calcium channel blockers:

I ahev hyperadrenergic POTS which causes severe and sudden vasoconstriction. I could not function without it. It may be counterproductive in people with excessive vasodilation but that is not the only mechanism of POTS. 

The entire earth’s surface is blanketed in Satellites transmitting  (microwave) radio freq all over.

[jayut]

I recommend doing a search on pubmed for emf, wifi, rf etc. It's a bit scary how much comes up. If you haven't already, please read the articles in the OP. Unfortunately, I personally know 3 people affected with electrical hypersensitivity. All three engineers. Two have a PhD and one with masters degree. They are very smart people. I have an electrical engineering degree. I understand electricity. What I don't completely understand is the affect of massive cumulative and chronic exposure to all this new non-ionizing rf and emf at a biological level. This new technology is all in addition to the naturally occurring emf and rf created. What's the cumulative and chronic affect? Is it just enough to make for slight malfunction for those genetically or biologically predisposed? Are some of us the canaries in the coal mine when it comes to man-made rf and emf?

[JimL]

7 hours ago, Jason_X said:

I am a scientist and I worked on designs for detectors for detecting a variety of electromagnetic wavelengths. I have good news.  Low frequency electromagnetic waves in our environment are harmless.  I will state that unequivocally.   

 

 

 

There are limited ways in which an EM field can interact with a human body. With high frequency waves, the energy of the photons interact with the molecules. This is usually referred to as “ionizing” radiation, and occurs when the energy of the photos is high enough to cause chemical reactions.  Gamma rays can cause cancer.  Ultraviolet light can cause a sun burn.  As you go lower in frequency, visible light won’t cause any harm.  As you go lower, you might feel the warmth from the infrared of a light bulb. The photons from a 5G cell phone have about 1/10,000 the energy than the highest energy photons from your flashlight.  We are constantly being bathed in harmless and NECESSARY infrared radiation from our surroundings.

 

Okay, so what about non-ionizing radiation?  For this case, we’ll consider either static or relatively slowly oscillating fields (5G and below).

 

Static: Your body has fairly high electric fields across all of your cell membranes, even in your brain.  We live in a natural constant electric field just by being on the surface of the earth.  Walking across carpet in the winter will typically result in over 1000 volts between you and the door knob.  These fields are harmless.

 

5G cell phone frequencies and below: For oscillating external fields to interact with your body, they’d need to couple energy into your body. Your body is a terrible antenna, so this just doesn’t happen in any meaningful way. A microwave oven is able to heat water molecules because it’s essentially holding the food between two plates (efficiently forcing the field through the food) and blasting it with about 1000 watts of power. Virtually all of the power gets channeled into the food. This frequency is MUCH too low to cause direct ionization, and it heats by causing the water molecules to vibrate.  Your cell phone operates at about 15 watts, and virtually zero percent of that energy gets absorbed by your body. Any energy that is absorbed will be harmless, low intensity heat. Consider a 15 flashlight bulb next to your head. You might feel a little bit of warmth if the bulb were pressed against your skin, where all of that energy is concentrated where the bulb is touching you.  However, if that radiation is spread throughout your skull, it would still heat your head less than if you were wearing a winter hat. Since your head is a terrible antenna, only a miniscule fraction of that 15 watts would get absorbed by your head.

 

Some people have hypothesized that cell phones might be able to disrupt brain signals when the phone is held next to someone’s head.  However, the induced electric fields from your cell phone will be MANY orders of magnitude lower than what naturally exist across the cell membranes in your brain. I did some calculations a while back, and I seem to remember that the natural fields were millions or billions times higher. 

 

 

 

Occasionally, you’ll see an article published about detrimental EMF effects.  The problems that I’ve seen with these reports include

 

• They tend to report numbers that are barely statistically discernible

   

• The data seems to be cherry picked.

   

• It can’t be reproduced by anyone else (very important)

• Some of the original studies were proven to be fraud, and the researcher was fired

Interesting story:  I helped a scientist run an experiment in a magnet laboratory at MIT years ago.  They were measuring electronic properties of materials in extremely high magnetic fields.  We had to left our wallets out of the room because the magnets would erase any magnetic strips.  However, the facility had zero concerns about humans being in the room while the experiment were being run.

 

I guess Chuck McGill was wrong. 

[Shepard1]

Interesting because the neurologist looked into Lambert–Eaton myasthenic syndrome, because I had lose of strength in my neck and shoulders.  All came back NAD.  Never returned back to him as he gave me whiplash when checking out my neck ROM.  Took me months to recover from that experience.  

No harm in reducing your home environment EMF levels.

[jayut]

My nervous system seems hyper sensitive to just about everything. It's so frustrating. Light, sound, smells, taste, positional changes in posture, etc, etc. I don't know if EMF bothers me, but I am taking a cautious approach and trying to reduce and/or eliminate as much as possible. Unfortunately, I feel like this could be psychologically counterproductive. I already feel like a hypochondriac and have enough stress in my life. Do I need to add new one?

 

Heart rate variability affected by radiofrequency electromagnetic field in adolescent students
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29469164

Analysis of the mobile phone effect on the heart rate variability by using the largest Lyapunov exponent
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20703598

Electromagnetic fields produced by GSM cellular phones and heart rate variability
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17004239

Effects of electromagnetic field exposure on the heart: a systematic review.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24021427

 

[Caroline11]

Yes it does.

I moved to the apartment with electrical room behind my wall and newly tested 5g ( which I wasn't aware of). Few months later I was diagnosed with depression, which seemed weird to me because I had time of my life moving to this beautiful apartment. Following months were absolutely nightmare, I became the sickest person ever, When I was moving out I could hardly walk ( I had muscle loss ). It took me a year of testing, hospital visits, several months on steroids, countless blood tests to exclude any other conditions but: dysautonomia, POTS, mast cells activation syndrome, small fibers neuropathy and several conditions resulting from above like cardiovascular issues, tachykardia, very low blood pressure, problems with breathing. Yes calcium channels blockers do help a little but they dont fix dysregulated autonomic system. I do take gabapentin, antihistamines, ibuprofen, sporadically steroids and depend on saline IV. Im about to discuss with my dr more medication because recently it got much worse and Im literally in zombie mode with hormonal imbalances, insomnia, chronic fatigue, inflammation and pain. 

[Angelie]

On 4/15/2019 at 3:17 AM, JimL said:

I guess Chuck McGill was wrong. 

I've read The invisible rainbow by Arthur Firstenberg after being affected by a heater, a dimmer switch and a vacuum cleaner with immediate effect each time and the after effects made me EXTREMELY ill for months. My heart rate was very high, I had facial pressure, head pressure, extreme dizziness and extreme anxiety, fatigue, pain, so many torturous symptoms that I felt so ill I wanted to die. 

I implore anyone having unexplained symptoms that ' scientists or doctors don't know the cause of' to read The Invisible rainbow because I strongly believe electricity and WiFi IS inducing illness throughout the world. 

Of course it'll also be making more ££££ 's for big pharma as they create medications to manage our symptoms but don't seem to have the ability or cash to research the actual causes???

Too much psuedo science being taught to make money for those running the world.

Everyone forgotten DTT or promotion of cigarettes for pregnant women? 

All the best 

 

 

[JimL]

1 hour ago, Angelie said:

I've read The invisible rainbow by Arthur Firstenberg after being affected by a heater, a dimmer switch and a vacuum cleaner with immediate effect each time and the after effects made me EXTREMELY ill for months. My heart rate was very high, I had facial pressure, head pressure, extreme dizziness and extreme anxiety, fatigue, pain, so many torturous symptoms that I felt so ill I wanted to die. 

I implore anyone having unexplained symptoms that ' scientists or doctors don't know the cause of' to read The Invisible rainbow because I strongly believe electricity and WiFi IS inducing illness throughout the world. 

Of course it'll also be making more ££££ 's for big pharma as they create medications to manage our symptoms but don't seem to have the ability or cash to research the actual causes???

Too much psuedo science being taught to make money for those running the world.

Everyone forgotten DTT or promotion of cigarettes for pregnant women? 

All the best 

 

 

The thing is, is it reproducible(In other living things) and can the results be generalized? I'd bet there are other factors present that most people don't have or don't have in the same way. If it's the case where certain circumstances/factors/other variables need to be present to experience it, it could take a long time to figure out the root cause. With AI and big data, they probably can get closer and a lot quicker, but they'd need a lot of data. 

[edriscoll]

@JimL  Agreed.  This is such a highly individual issue.  So many other things factor into the results.  Regarding dysautonomia specifically, I can see why exposure in high degrees could potentially have an impact on the nervous system.  But, again, like all things with dysautonomia, the treatment is very individualized.  So all of this data needs to be incorporated with all the other things affecting a person's health.  

@JimL I know it was a while ago that you made this comment, but I just saw it now - Applause for the "Chuck McGill" reference.  Love it!