The China Study Anyone?

[boymommy3]

What do you guys think about it?

[Foggy01]

What study?

[issie]

I haven't read it - but, have seen lots of things referring to it. The diet I'm doing at the moment is supposed to be similar. I've gone all vegan and low-fat. Is starting to make huge changes for me and I'm feeling much better. You might take a look at Forks over Knives site and look at the videos and reference materials there. Also Dr. McDougall has similar diet. I'm combining things with both of these plans and it is not as hard as I thought it would be. I'm actually really enjoying it. My husband is slowly deciding that he wants to do it too. He has been watching me for the last few months and is starting to tell some of his friends that they should do the diet.

Issie

[boymommy3]

We have seen the Forks Over Knives movie....we were like WOW! after we watched it but never really did anything about it. It did freak me out a bit because we eat a lot of animal based foods....mostly organic though. We raise our own chickens for eggs (we don't do our own meat chickens) and for the last two years we have purchased a 1/2 of a beef from a local farmer. It's so hard to change your mindset sometimes when you thought you were making better choices anyway.

However, we just found out my husband has really high cholesterol and borderline high triglycerides and blood pressure. It's very concerning because he isn't over weight and is super active. He's a PE teacher and coach and he really does try to practice what he preaches to his students. The most concerning thing though is that his dad died at the age of 41 of a heart attack and my husband will be 40 this summer, so I don't believe it's all about diet with him.....I think there are certainly genetics at play here. That we can't control, but diet we certainly can.

I am getting serious about changing some things in our diet and I am thinking this is the way we are going to go. Not to mention the health issues I am having....and we also have a son with CHD so there are no shortage of reasons now to maybe change the way we think about some things. I do love my fresh chicken eggs though!

I would be interested to know how your diet continues to go and what changes you see, Issie.

I have been following a cool blog for a while now, it's called chocolate covered katie. She's vegan and she puts a lot of interesting recipes on her blog. You could check it out if you like.

[issie]

The more I read and study about it the more convinced I am that this is the thing to do. I mean, we learn our eating habits from our parents and if they had problems and we have problems --could it be related to what we ALL have been doing with our diets. If we have genetics that are not so good and we compound it even more by eating a certain way that may be bad for that problem ---we will have similiar issues as those we learned it from. As for POTS, there are so many reasons why this should be a good thing for us. I don't know if you've been following my protozoa thread --but, I talk alot about my diet there. I'm not the only one doing this diet either. There is another girl that is also. (We see the same doctor and he put us on this diet.) I'm really thrilled with my results so far and it's a fun learning experience. I went into it with a good attitude --not thinking I was giving up anything --but, poor health. So, it's a win -win, as far as I'm concerned.

When you do this diet, and you mess up with it ---and you will mess up a little --you notice what that does to your body even more. I've said - OMGoodness --and I was doing this to myself on a daily basis. It's amazing what you will notice and not want to do again. But, it's like my doc. said --you either do it or you don't. There's no in-between. You have to commit and be determined. Until you can get your head around it and be determined --you won't notice as many of the positive changes.

Issie

[Angela]

I know someone on that diet, the china study one. He raves about it, says he lost 20 lbs and feels healthier than ever. he doesn't have pots or dysautonomia he is doing it for general health preservation.

Hey Issie, Dr. Fry has a link to the China Study on his website as well as Dr. McDougall I had noticed.

[bustersacc11]

I have battled high cholesterol since my 20's. Mid 30's tried a couple of statins but I had terrible side effects. I have been watching my diet for some time with some benefit but not where I would like to be. Exercise is hard because of dysautonomia. Go figure. I saw on CNN Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn (Cleveland Clinic) and he was promoting his book Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease. His book has real life stories, educational / research info about the food we eat, and tons of recipes, and websites to help with finding health foods and recipes. He refers to the China Study and Dr Campbell in his book. I tried Dr Esselstyn recommendations from Sept 2012 to Dec 2012 and was able for the first time get my total Chol from 213 to 178, LDL 155 to 118. I want my LDL under 100. Chances of heart attack with LDL under 70 or 80 and total chol 150 is almost zero. That would be wondeful but doubtful. Also, I do cheat. I like fish, chicken, and an occassional hamburger. Dr. Esselstyn recommends not to eat any food that has a mother. Stuck with fruits, vegs, grains, nuts. It is tough.

I bought the China Study book over the holidays. I get a couple of chapters into it and put it down. For me, it is not exactly fun reading. I will eventually get to the end.

[issie]

I'm reading a book right now by Dr. Joel Fuhrman, MD. He is promoting this type of diet too. His is a little more limiting - as he doesn't believe in anything white. But, it is really interesting some of the reversals that he has had with his patients that adhere to the diet he is RXing to them. The more I read about a low fat vegan diet - the more determined I am to follow it.

Yes, I knew that Dr. Fry was into the China Study - we've talked about it.

Issie

[boymommy3]

I am ordering the book from Amazon and hope to start getting on board. I am believing that is something to it as well.

There is a doctor in our community that is an internist who is treating people by having them go on this diet. I have heard nothing but wonderful things about him either. We LOVE our current GP but I am considering having my husband and I see him just to get some info and see what he has to say about the two of us.

We also have some friends that we go to church with. The wife use to be a dietitian (she's now a SAHM) and her husband is a general surgeon in our area and they follow this diet pretty closely as well. They've both read the book and believe pretty strongly in it as well.

One thing I am struggling with though, in terms of not eating animal based products, is that I believe strongly that honey is good for us (obviously not in large amounts). I believe there is much data to back this up. We raise bees and sell honey. I just can't imagine that we will cut honey out of our diet. I don't know what the China Study says about that yet, but I do know that people who are 100% vegan won't eat or use anything with an animal product in it.

[issie]

You have to use your own judgement and reason and educate yourself on it. I think we aren't doing it for ethical reasons --but, for health reasons. If you look at the Forks over Knives site and look into Dr. McDougall --Starch diet book and watch some of the videos, it will help you decide what is right for you. I haven't read the China Study - but, my doc tends to go towards the MacDougall plan the most. You will figure out how to incorporate the foods you like into a healthy way to eat. I also use www.sparkpeople.com to keep track of what I eat and to make sure I'm getting enough protein and keeping my fat down. It also breaks out your nutrients and you can see if you are missing something somewhere. A good many people will supplement Vit D and B-12 when on a vegan diet. I also have supplemented a veg form of DHA. If I can give you any ideas ---let me know. There are at least two of us doing this ---there may be more. I'm seeing very subtle improvements. I still have a long way to go with perfecting this --but, so far --I really like it.

Issie

[Angela]

I'm reading a book right now by Dr. Joel Fuhrman, MD. He is promoting this type of diet too. His is a little more limiting - as he doesn't believe in anything white. But, it is really interesting some of the reversals that he has had with his patients that adhere to the diet he is RXing to them. The more I read about a low fat vegan diet - the more determined I am to follow it.

Yes, I knew that Dr. Fry was into the China Study - we've talked about it.

don't believe in eliminating everything white, turnips, onions, garlic, potatoes are good for you.

[issie]

I'm reading a book right now by Dr. Joel Fuhrman, MD. He is promoting this type of diet too. His is a little more limiting - as he doesn't believe in anything white. But, it is really interesting some of the reversals that he has had with his patients that adhere to the diet he is RXing to them. The more I read about a low fat vegan diet - the more determined I am to follow it.

Yes, I knew that Dr. Fry was into the China Study - we've talked about it.

don't believe in eliminating everything white, turnips, onions, garlic, potatoes are good for you.

No, I didn't say I believed in it ---but, the Dr. writing this book does. I love all those things!

Issie

[boymommy3]

Issie....thanks! I will keep you posted on how things go for us. I also had a friend recommend The Maker's Diet. It's apparently on the same lines and China Study but maybe not a strict.

It's a process for sure, changing eating habits. Not easy with kids who are picky eaters either. I have two kids are are picky and one who isn't. It's so strange to me because they have all been fed the same food their whole lives but one of my kids LOVES good food. I am convinced he's gonna be a chef. The other two....not so much. ARGH!

[misstraci]

I've never heard of the China study nor have I watched/read Forks over Knives. I have read "chocolate covered katie blog" and have used multiple recipes. all very good!!! My boyfriend has been doing a vegan diet for many months now and has lost a tremendous amount of weight. I'm not sure if he "feels" better or good, he never felt "bad" to begin with. I don't want to give up cheese, so, I haven't tried it myself. I was a vegetarian for seven years so doing without meat is just fine. i have a very bad addiction to sugar, more specifically chocolate, I would like to try a diet that is mainly fruit/vegetable and the more raw the better. I get so frustrated from not feeling good that I need that comfort of food that you hear about. it's very true. If I'm mad and frustrated, It will only make me more mad and frustrated to sit there eating salad

[lejones1]

I was vegetarian, "almost" vegan for a year and half, actually right up until POTS, partially because of things I'd read in the China Study. I didn't read the whole book but read excerpts and it's really fascinating. I sometimes wonder why we've evolved to eat meat at all if it's really so bad for us, but I found the dairy portions of the book more convincing. Also can't help but wonder if there's something about our current factory farming system that exacerbates the negative effects of the animal products on us, or if we're just eating so much more than we used to.

I started eating animal products again soon after I got POTS (I had sudden viral onset) because I was rapidly losing weight and it became easier to just stop limiting my diet. 10 months later, I'm still underweight and still eating meat/dairy, but going vegetarian really changed the way I eat and cook - meat is more of a side now and I only eat it a few times a week. It's something I would like to try again in the future, but I'm kind of at a point where I think getting to a healthy weight will have a more immediate positive effect on my life and it's just easier to do with meat/dairy.

To be honest, I don't think I really saw any immediate effects from it. I didn't have any underlying health conditions, so maybe that's why. I'm more interested in the long-term repercussions of the diet, I guess. For those of you on it now, what changes have you seen in anything other than weight/cholesterol? Any POTS changes?

Two blogs I would HIGHLY recommend to anyone going vegetarian/vegan are Oh She Glows (http://ohsheglows.com/) and Peas and Thank You (http://peasandthankyou.com/). I think Angela on OSG has slowed down with posting because she's doing a book deal but some of her older stuff is great - try avocado cream pasta! I've tried some recipes on there thinking there's no way this can taste good (chocolate avocado torte?!) but everything has been amazing. Peas and Thank You is a mom with a two young kids, so all of her recipes are really family friendly - great ideas for getting hesitant husbands and picky kids on board! I think she's gone back and forth between vegan and vegetarian so there's some of both but she always gives options. And both of them, especially OSG, give lots of allergen-free options.

[westernmass]

I was vegan (eating a healthy, organic and clean balanced diet) and in the best shape of my life when I first got POTS. Over the past year I've added meat and limited dairy back to my diet, but still eat very clean, organic, whole food based. I enjoyed being vegan. I've tried a handful of diets (due to GI issues) since POTS and nothing seems to help, so I just stick to what I know is healthy. China Study definitely worth reading, forks over knives and also food matters are worth watching. Too many people have no idea what they are truly eating!

[SpinnyC]

I'd been eating organic, local foods and very little dairy and meat before getting Pots. Ironically after being diagnosed my diet got worse because of all the salt and elimination diets I tried. I feel like my food is more processed and more limited than it was before. I'm getting back into eating a better more well rounded diet, and it will probably go more towards the china study and forks over knives style of eating than I was before because I really like the results of the research.