Lainy Posted May 21, 2018 Report Share Posted May 21, 2018 Hey all! Overall my symptoms have been much better in the last month since switching to a different beta blocker and I’ve been able to move forward in physical rehab and even started going on long walks every morning(couldn’t have imagined that a month ago!) But now my insomnia is back full-force and the things that had been working before are suddenly ineffective. I’ve been taking an herbal sleep aid called Deep Sleep that I found recommended here in combination with Magnesium citrate and it worked great at first. I was able to get off of Ambien entirely. Not so much the story anymore. Has anyone else been through this? Where everything else improves but sleep is worse? Or do herbal sleep aids lose their effectiveness(do we build a tolerance?) What do you take/do that helps your insomnia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunny Posted May 22, 2018 Report Share Posted May 22, 2018 My sleep patterns have always been irregular, but I'm used to it. I'm on the road most nights for work. It's been ~7 years since I last spent a full week in my own bed. For that matter, it's been over a year since I spent a full week in the same bed, and that was in London while traveling. A few things which help me: 1) Not stressing about not getting enough sleep. Easier said than done. 3:30a local time as I write this...and I know I'm not going to fall asleep easy...but eventually I'll get some sleep, probably not enough, but oh well. I'm not worried. I'll wake up and start all over again in 4 hours. 2) A distraction of sorts. I have a rather nasty case of tinnitus, which can get in the way of falling asleep. So, I always try to have some sort of background noise going, whether it be a fan, laptop, AC, or something making a steady sound running in the background. I then focus on that sound in hopes of falling asleep. Music doesn't work for me -- my mind wakes up and starts plotting out the sheet music. 3) A small source of heat. This is my secret weapon when I truly can't sleep. In the cooler months I have a space heater blowing towards my bed. Currently using an old XBox video game system someone gave me. I have it on my nightstand, pointed at my face & arms. I know it sounds strange, but it works for me consistently. Between the heat, wind, and noise, it lulls me to sleep within 10 or so minutes every time. 4) Doing a mind dump right before laying down. I'll take a pen & notepad and write down all of the "to-do" items bouncing around in my mind and note what active thoughts I'm working on. Once I've put all of it on paper, I can easily kick it out of my mind. In the morning, I'll pick up the notepad, read everything back into memory and start working on it again. 5) Pyjamas. It's my way of telling my body that it's time for bed. I only wear them when I'm ready to sleep and that's it. I'll switch to gym clothes for lounging about. 6) Sleep wherever you can get it. If I'm tossing & turning too much in bed, I'll go try the couch. Sometimes the floor. In a previous life, I've slept in road cases, on top of power transformers, and a whole slew of other places. Undignified? Yes, but as long as I'm getting the sleep, I don't care. 7) Alcohol. I'm a lightweight when it comes to drinking. Half a glass of wine and I'm looking for the nearest horizontal surface to sleep on. Warning: DO NOT combine with Ambien or other sleeping meds for that matter! I have a few friends who work for the airlines and the Ambien Zombie stories they tell me are absolutely funny to hear, but I'd hate to be the Ambient Zombie in question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yogini Posted May 22, 2018 Report Share Posted May 22, 2018 What time of day do you take the beta blocker? If your doctor approves you can try switching to see if that helps your sleep. You might also want to google sleep hygiene. Lots of little things you can do to improve sleep - not having caffeine after a certain hour, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lainy Posted May 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2018 I take 6.25mg metoprolol twice a day. (super small dose since I'm hypersensitive) I've worked hard these past few months to establish a good routine/sleep hygiene so it's just confusing(and frustrating) that it's been very unhelpful for the past 2 weeks. Bunny, I actually use a lot of those Small heat source(heating pad on a timer) and mind dump have been the most useful. And earplugs since any little noise will wake me up. Some other things I do: -Set hours for work. I run my own business from home so the home & work life bleed together. I try to 'Clock out' and have at least 3 hours in the evening where I'm relaxing & not thinking about anything work-related. -light stretching before bed -lower all the lights about an hour before bed -no TV or computer 30 minutes before bed(often the hardest for me) -keep pencil and paper near my bed in case I have ideas so I'm not running them over and over as I try to fall asleep. -keeping my sleeping space clean (clean room, fresh sheets, making the bed) there's just something super satisfying about fresh linens so I do it as often as I can to encourage myself to actually get IN the bed. Has anyone found that being able to be more physically active has thrown off their sleep? I do all my exercise and rehab in the morning so I didn't think it would impact sleep at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ks42 Posted May 24, 2018 Report Share Posted May 24, 2018 15 hours ago, Lainy said: Has anyone found that being able to be more physically active has thrown off their sleep? I do all my exercise and rehab in the morning so I didn't think it would impact sleep at all? YES! If it's cardiovascular in nature. 5-10 minutes on a recumbent bike causes complete insomnia for about 3 days afterward. The theory that's been tossed around in my case is that exercise increases sympathetic nervous system activity, as it does with everyone, but in my case, it maybe keeps escalating and doesn't go back to baseline after activity, even if done in the early morning. For that reason, I'm still struggling with being able to do cardiovascular exercise. I tolerate pilates, yoga, and light walking, but I had to work my way up to those very slowly and I do a lot of restorative/adrenal yoga to balance out anything more active. Honestly, though, I don't hear that from a lot of people with POTS, so I think I'm a pretty extreme case. Exercise is beneficial for many with POTS so don't let my experience put you off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lainy Posted May 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2018 ks42... that actually makes lot of sense. Do you feel like that's something more common for HyperPots? As an experiment, I dialed back on my morning walks a few days ago and I'm sleeping better again! I have a habit of moving forward too quickly, I suppose. I'm only just able to do any 'vertical cardio' (was restricted to recumbent after a concussion) I'll just have to take it slower. I've never heard of adrenal yoga. I'll have to look that up and give it a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms Bts Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 This thread is helpful. I have been struggling recently with insomnia and trying to figure out why. I had been sleeping well even after exercising however now after my cardio workout on the rowing machine or recumbent bike I have insomnia. I have been exploring biking or rowing faster for a few minutes, bringing my heart rate up, and then slowing down for 4-5 minutes, then repeating this over again. My heart rate does slow down during the slower pace and I am happy that happens. Still I suspicion my sympathetic nervous system is getting wired up somehow causing sleeplessness after exercise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StayAtHomeMom Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 I have noticed just taking my beta blocker before bed makes my sleeping worse. I try to take it earlier in the evening. Not sure why it works that way though. I also listen to audiobooks to help me sleep. I am a big book nerd so it has to be a book I have read a lot and certain voices are better. I love listening to Jim Dale read the Harry Potter series. His voice is deep and soothing. Plus while I am listening my mind can't wander to keep me awake. If I still have trouble I take melatonin and/or take a shower. Showers are exhausting for me so I usually fall asleep. Heat has never worked for me (clogs my nose up) so I usually do cold. If it is winter I will open my window (drives my hubby nuts) in the summer I usually have a fan blowing on my face. Not sure if the noise helps much but the cool wind on my face does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RecipeForDisaster Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 We vary so much. I can't sleep without metoprolol before bed. My heart races and pounds too much to consider it. Showering when it's warm out (in winter it makes me too cold) and reading, definitely... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 @Lainy - I used to have terrible insomnia and it did not get better until I started SSRI and Ritalin ( methylphenidate ). Now I sleep well but still wake up every 2-3 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yogini Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 10 hours ago, StayAtHomeMom said: I have noticed just taking my beta blocker before bed makes my sleeping worse. I try to take it earlier in the evening. Not sure why it works that way though. I also listen to audiobooks to help me sleep. I am a big book nerd so it has to be a book I have read a lot and certain voices are better. I love listening to Jim Dale read the Harry Potter series. His voice is deep and soothing. Plus while I am listening my mind can't wander to keep me awake. If I still have trouble I take melatonin and/or take a shower. Showers are exhausting for me so I usually fall asleep. Heat has never worked for me (clogs my nose up) so I usually do cold. If it is winter I will open my window (drives my hubby nuts) in the summer I usually have a fan blowing on my face. Not sure if the noise helps much but the cool wind on my face does. Beta blockers lower your BP. Your body might be staying awake in an effort to keep up your BP. A few hours before bed I used to drink a large cup of broth followed by a few glasses of water. The other option is to ask your dr to see if you can switch to a morning dose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StayAtHomeMom Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 2 hours ago, yogini said: Beta blockers lower your BP. Your body might be staying awake in an effort to keep up your BP. A few hours before bed I used to drink a large cup of broth followed by a few glasses of water. The other option is to ask your dr to see if you can switch to a morning dose. I am supposed to take it twice a day for HR. I have been just not taking it at night or try to take it earlier. Took it last night because of how bad I felt. Slept like crap. Very unrestful. I may have to see if there is a once a day or see if I can take it morning and afternoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RecipeForDisaster Posted July 11, 2018 Report Share Posted July 11, 2018 Both of my cardiologists assured me that metoprolol, at least in small doses, isn't potent in lowering BP. Mine is very low to begin with and I haven't noticed a difference when I take it vs. when I don't. I use the 24 hour extended release version which doesn't last a full 24 hours for me. The different BBs have very different functions.. I am limited to specific ones so I don't have issues with my lungs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StayAtHomeMom Posted July 11, 2018 Report Share Posted July 11, 2018 2 hours ago, RecipeForDisaster said: I am limited to specific ones so I don't have issues with my lungs. I have the same issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yogini Posted July 11, 2018 Report Share Posted July 11, 2018 On 7/10/2018 at 1:09 PM, StayAtHomeMom said: I am supposed to take it twice a day for HR. I have been just not taking it at night or try to take it earlier. Took it last night because of how bad I felt. Slept like crap. Very unrestful. I may have to see if there is a once a day or see if I can take it morning and afternoon. It is usually not recommended to abruptly stop a BB, so pls make sure to coordinate with your doctor and/or pharmacist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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