Lemons2lemonade Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Psychology journal:http://www.fk14.tu-d...ffmann_2003.pdfMonks increasing body temperature through meditationhttp://news.harvard....8/09-tummo.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBlonde Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 For some crazy reason... ( consider my POTS brain, lol) that reminds me of the the SQUAT test which I was reminded of yesterday on some posts here about exercise including working in the yard squating to pull weeds. This is what happened. Maybe somebody can bring it home as to the why....One of the tests my doctor did as part of my work up besides the standing, renin, aldosterone, etc. was the SQUAT tests. I can't remember now what failing it meant, but.... yesterday I was thinking that squating would not be a good thing for most of us with OI, POTs or whatever we call it...I bet there is some specific POTS rehab types of exercise to follow.. I am trying to work my way UP to yoga, lol... baby steps with walking and sitting every single day right now.Any known rehab protocol after being bedridden? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxie Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 The second article there, about the monks, is kind of like one of the things I went through in biofeedback. I think it's called thermal regulatory biofeedback. They use a hand thermometer. You hand temperature is supposed to indicate peripheral blood flow.http://bio-medical.com/news/2002/05/temperature-biofeedback-hand-warming-explanation/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBlonde Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Amazing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemons2lemonade Posted February 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 So if we can affect this with our minds, can we also cause it with our minds, or is it a one way street? When I think of meditation, I think of it as a reduction in consciousness, approaching sleeping but not quite there. I think having pots makes it easy to meditate because I am only half conscious most of time anyways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBlonde Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 So if we can affect this with our minds, can we also cause it with our minds, or is it a one way street?Lemons... Maybe I am not understanding.....Are you saying cause POTS (because of our psychic?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemons2lemonade Posted February 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 No, just that it can have some effect maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxie Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 I don't know that we can cause it. But we do have some physiological control in calming some of the episodes. My dr strongly believes in it. have you seen my post on the supporting research for biofeedback: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramakentesh Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Interesting. Some folks are doing well after that amygdala retraining program or so I heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBlonde Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 I guess that is sorta along the lines of a research paper I read last night on how stress hormones the body produces under intense stress can actually damage the hypothalamus.... the brains message center. Therefore, if the messages don't get sent out right to the receptors .......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 I have been struggling/working my way thru a book called "the Body Bears the Burden". It's written by a neurologist and describes the physiological changes that he believes occur in the brain due to prior stress/trauma/accidents that we may have experienced when we were younger. He's very detailed and it goes into a lot of neuro physiology that I'm going to have to read many, many times to understand. He notes that the book isn't really written for lay people but since there are so many scientifically/medically astute people on here, you might want to check it out.The book is written primarily about "whiplash syndrome" and all the complaints that his patients present with after whiplash type injuries. Interestingly enough there is a LOT of overlap with POTS type symptoms. His premise is that when we experience trauma (e.g. abuse, witnessing abuse, accidents etc) at a young age there are physiological changes (he goes thru all the catecholamine reactions etc in depth) that occur in the body which effect the brain. The brain then adjusts and changes the messages it's sending out based on those reactions and these become permanent changes that occur. Then (his) patients have another trauma such as whiplash (interestingly enough he discusses surgery as a trigger for these symptoms as well) and it causes this whole cascade of symptoms to occur. I'm not explaining it very well, but like I said, it's way above my pay grade of medicine. LOLHe discusses the HPA axis a lot and goes into details about how the result of trauma causes permanent physiological changes he believes occur to this particular system and how it effects the body. I thought it was interesting because the HPA axis has been implicated in the past as a possible cause of POTS.I believe what he's saying is that it's initially perhaps both a physical and psychological reaction that occurs and over time, it creates actual physical change in the brain, which then causes both physical and psychological results.I found his ideas interesting, not least because: 1) He notes that "if physicians will just allow the patient to tell their whole story, then the physician will KNOW what they need to know to diagnose/help the patient". How refreshing to have a doctor recommend to his collegues that they actually LISTEN to their patients. And 2) he discusses his frustration with other doctors as he's tried to present his theories to them. Because it crosses the lines between neurology and psychology, neither group wants to listen to him. Sounds like he's experienced just a tad bit of OUR frustration when no one doctor wants to look at us as a whole person but only wants to deal with their one specialty area. Anyway, if you want some heavy reading (help prevent that Alzheimers LOL) you might want to check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramakentesh Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 I think that epigenetics is the most interesting area. How decisions like drinking two cans of soda on Tuesday and other random things can literally effect how your genes are expressed and whether they are turned on or off later in life. One study found that high glucose before the age of 4 - even limited exposure - might actually trigger a number of what are now termed 'lifestyle' related diseases by epigenetically altering the function and expression of genes, causing changes that may last a life time.In the book "Primer of the Autonomic System" which discusses POTS, etc, Dr Goldstein states that the autonomic system is closely tied to the CNS therefore something effecting one can have obvious effects on the other. Depressive illnesses and Schizophrenia apparently in part express autonomic disfunction.Stress is very bad for POTS but then again it seems bad for a lot of illnesses, particularly autoimmune diseases and I found it interesting to note that most of the triggers for MS or Myasthenia gravis relapse were similar to those suggested for some POTS patients.But stress ofcourse engages the very same autonomic branch as does POTS so the substrate for a vicious cycle is pretty clear.There are things about POTS ofcourse that dont support a psychogenic basis - the female to male ratio, the various abnormalities that have been identified in some patients over time.Some recent research on CFS at least is starting to look at whether brain and CNS inflammation and free radicals might be sensitizing the brain to stimul that the normal brain would filter out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramakentesh Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 A Dr betz.... (spelling?) is currently finding similar proteins in CFS patient's Spinal fluid as found in Alzheimers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 A Dr betz.... (spelling?) is currently finding similar proteins in CFS patient's Spinal fluid as found in AlzheimersNow THAT'S scary!The doc in the book I was talking about addresses the male/female ratio in part based on the relative rates of abuse of girls vs boys. Personally his stuff doesn't fit my situation but I still thought it was interesting. He wrote it in 2001 though so didn't have the benefit of all the ANS research that is out there currently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramakentesh Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 They once also thought that Diabetes M type 1 was psychogenic and the treatment was 'rest'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBlonde Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 Interesting......"whiplash syndrome" is one of the most common reasons for pituitary failure, also... I will have to look for that book! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L4UR3N Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 I think that epigenetics is the most interesting area. How decisions like drinking two cans of soda on Tuesday and other random things can literally effect how your genes are expressed and whether they are turned on or off later in life. One study found that high glucose before the age of 4 - even limited exposure - might actually trigger a number of what are now termed 'lifestyle' related diseases by epigenetically altering the function and expression of genes, causing changes that may last a life time.In the book "Primer of the Autonomic System" which discusses POTS, etc, Dr Goldstein states that the autonomic system is closely tied to the CNS therefore something effecting one can have obvious effects on the other. Depressive illnesses and Schizophrenia apparently in part express autonomic disfunction.Lets all think back to birth and find a commonality of where we went wrong!! lol. I think epigenetics are incredibly interesting too. We just have to figure what will turn OFF our POTS genes. Understanding what turned them on in the first place would help.....What I find interesting is how different disorders are classified. For instance, Schizophrenia is said to be a psychological disorder, and Parkinson's is not --even though one is thought to be caused by an excess of dopamine and the other a deficiency. Just because the symptoms are different, does it really make Schizophrenia any more "psychological" than Parkinson's? All of these disorders (Depression, Anxiety, Schizophrenia, Parkinsons, POTS) have a neurohormonal imbalance. I feel that it is a big mistake to think of Depression, Anxiety and Schizophrenia as any less of a physical condition than Parkinson's or POTS. It creates a barrier where the global function of the nervous system is typically segmented. How can we ever fully understand the nervous system if we are only studying parts of it that seem to relate to specific symptoms. With hormonal imbalances of any kind I believe that the interplay of ALL hormones needs to be assessed--whether they appear at first glance to be involved or not.I guess you could say we are all just one big hormonal mess, lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L4UR3N Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 The disturbing part with POTS is--we dont even have a good grasp on what the faulty mechanisms are .....let alone what is causing them to be that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sue1234 Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 I find it interesting that he throws whiplash out there, as I wonder about if it could be a mechanical reason for POTS. I began a thread called "Head/neck issues possible contributor to POTS" yesterday, should have titled it different. Anyway, I've been reading alot about compression of the brain that causes cranial nerve symptoms, and when I went through the list, it was like a "lightbulb" moment on alot of our symptoms that are not directly related to standing up. If anyone cares to read what I wrote on that thread, come meet me on the thread and I would love to talk over our history of these symptoms.Rama, they can even go back as far as the environment in utero that could affect whether that fetus will develop Type II diabetes. Epigenetics is very interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueskies Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 Meditation definately helps with my stress levels which does help with my attitude to having this chronic illness. When I don't meditate I don't feel as mentally well. But my body is going to do the tachycardia/fainting stuff whether I meditate regularly or not. Meditation does not help either with any of my other symptoms. It does help with me being able to detach myself a bit from what is happening to me -- sometimes. I can meditate during the day, have to do it lying down with a pillow under my head (position dictated by pots). I will be very relaxed etc but as I get up from lying positon heart rate will usually shoot up it's 30 points or more. No matter how slowly I get up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sue1234 Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 McBlonde, regarding the squat test, I've known it to be used to test people for Cushing's. Their large muscle groups get so weak from the high cortisol that being able to get UP from a squatting position is difficult to impossible. Not sure if this is the same "squat" test you might have had, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
issie Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 I think that epigenetics is the most interesting area. How decisions like drinking two cans of soda on Tuesday and other random things can literally effect how your genes are expressed and whether they are turned on or off later in life. One study found that high glucose before the age of 4 - even limited exposure - might actually trigger a number of what are now termed 'lifestyle' related diseases by epigenetically altering the function and expression of genes, causing changes that may last a life time.In the book "Primer of the Autonomic System" which discusses POTS, etc, Dr Goldstein states that the autonomic system is closely tied to the CNS therefore something effecting one can have obvious effects on the other. Depressive illnesses and Schizophrenia apparently in part express autonomic disfunction.Lets all think back to birth and find a commonality of where we went wrong!! lol. I think epigenetics are incredibly interesting too. We just have to figure what will turn OFF our POTS genes. Understanding what turned them on in the first place would help.....What I find interesting is how different disorders are classified. For instance, Schizophrenia is said to be a psychological disorder, and Parkinson's is not --even though one is thought to be caused by an excess of dopamine and the other a deficiency. Just because the symptoms are different, does it really make Schizophrenia any more "psychological" than Parkinson's? All of these disorders (Depression, Anxiety, Schizophrenia, Parkinsons, POTS) have a neurohormonal imbalance. I feel that it is a big mistake to think of Depression, Anxiety and Schizophrenia as any less of a physical condition than Parkinson's or POTS. It creates a barrier where the global function of the nervous system is typically segmented. How can we ever fully understand the nervous system if we are only studying parts of it that seem to relate to specific symptoms. With hormonal imbalances of any kind I believe that the interplay of ALL hormones needs to be assessed--whether they appear at first glance to be involved or not.I guess you could say we are all just one big hormonal mess, lol Rissy, I couldn't agree with you more. But, the medical society is not going to change anytime soon in what they view as psychological vs. physcial - even though they are one and the same. It's taken years for some of the view points to change. I mean they used to think that CFS and FMS were all in your head and now they know it's not. What goes on in our brain is just as much physical as psychological and probably has just as much of a scientific reason as something from a thought process to an action. Until our whole body is considered - I think we're missing a good bit of medicine that could be beneficial. Loved your comment - by the way.Issie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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