Need Any Advice On Tmj. Went To Er, Even Morphine Shot Didn't Help Much???

[hilbiligrl]

I've been having pretty severe bouts of i TMJ pain. It is intense, constant, but also spiking to points where i almost blackout or i quickly vomit unexpectedly. I have been going to my osteopathic doctor (a DO) in my doctor's office (he has many specialists in there, and he's an integrative doctor) and have had excellent results from their treatment, pain free for 2-4 weeks with no pain meds whatsoever. But I took prednisone for the first time, high dose, taper down, totall 2 weeks on it.... have been done with for about 3 days i think..... during the taking of the prednisone i had no pain whatsoever, and i felt pretty good of course, even my legs felt strong again. But once i tapered off, the jaw pain is unreal. It is in my ear, the jaw joint, my lower jaw into my teeth, same with the upper, my lower skull in the back, i mean it's intense, like an ice pick being hammered at. Its as if i can feel every single nerve that produces pain itself.

I finally went to er today. Got a shot of toradol, and valium. That did not work. Then a shot of morhpine, but i think a low dose, because I did not get loopy or really feel anything...... just an easement in the pain to a tolerable level, it never 'got rid of the pain' in order to give me a rest. I see the DO doc in the morning, but i can't always easily see the DO doc, and when i have flare ups like this, I just don't know what to do but lay and pant, and cry, and moan in pain. I am in so much physical pain that i never in my life thought possible. And you guys, i have a high tolerance for pain, i really do, i always have. But this is just unreal.

Do any of you know of anything hollistic, or natural , or even conventional that has helped you decrease the jaw/face/jaw joint pain? Is there any type of herb or anything i could apply typically?

thanks for any advice with it

we do think it could be connective tissue disease related

tennille

[sue1234]

Sorry, I have no answers for you. But, I hope you get better, and I hope the DO has something to help you tomorrow. Let us know!

[Dizzysillyak]

Sorry to hear you're going thru this. I don't know that much about pain meds so I'm confused on why

the doctor at the er didn't do more for you. I've only been to the er for kidney stone pain tho and

whatever they gave me worked. Were you told to come back if it didn't work ?

Fwiw, Sometimes, when I have severe pain and meds aren't working, I use breathing techniques I learned for

natural childbirth. Also, alternating ice and heat for ten minutes helps me most of the time.

I had to get braces when I was 19 to fix my tmj. Tc .. D

[tinkerbella]

SORRY, my friend. Have you had a mouth guard made? If you can't afford one you can buy a sport's mouth guard youth size, is what I use and follow the directions on the package. They are 99 cents @ Walmart. My real one was about 4,000 dollars over 15 years ago and wore out.Dentist said it was better than nothing. I also used to go for massage therapy and she would pull on my jaw. She would pull it back, asshe stood behind me. Google ways to do it to yourself, my sister showed me how to do it to myself. HANG IN THERE ~ I'll see if I can find you a good link ~

love,

bellamia~

[tinkerbella]

HERE are some links http://www.ehow.com/...-tmj-botox.html

HOPE you find some relief ~ It maybe what gives me hissing sound in my ears and other times a heartbeat sound.

Bellamia ~

[songcanary]

Tennille,

I had terrible TMJ many years ago and speech therapy cured it. It took a long time but I had to retrain myself to relax my tongue and I also had a tongue thrust which even was undetectable by my dentist I hid it so well. I had braces three times, once as a teen and twice as an adult. In my case it was caused by stress. I think every problem in my life was caused by stress! Anyway, try to stay aware of how you place your tongue; it should rest in the middle of the roof of your mouth. That way your jaw muscles can stay relaxed. Hope this helps you.

[Annaliese]

I have tmj trouble too. Not as bad as yours though. Started in pregnancy. Side of head swelled up so it looked like a hammerhead shark. Couldnt hear properly either. Ive just purchsed some herbal antiinflammatories. Too esrly to tell if they work yet. I hear tmj trouble can come along with ehlers d syndrome. Do you have that? I supect i do. My hips are lso giving me trouble. Have you tried treatments that help fibromyalgia suffers? Thats my next option.

[janiedelite]

I agree that my mouth guard has helped more than anything else. My dentists have made them for me at about $500 each, although my insurance pays for most of it. I found that the lower jaw mouth guard works best for me (I still had quite a bit of pain with the upper jaw guard).

Otherwise, physical therapy for my jaw has been helpful. But I've gotten the most relief from a physical therapist who specializes in myofascial releases (the John Barnes technique).

Is there any way your doctor can call in a prescription to help with the pain in the meantime? Perhaps a muscle relaxer would help too?

[tinkerbella]

Count your blessing if u have dental insurance. Muscle relaxers are a must @ bedtime.

[issie]

I had awful TMJ pains too and my jaw joint is damaged due to osteoarthritis that goes along with EDs. I got braces in my 40's and it helped allot. But, the damage is there and I still have trouble sometimes. I've learned to put my jaw back into place myself. I take my thumb and run it down the side of my face along the jaw line and can put it back in. What ever you do - CHEWING GUM will make it worse. that had to go away for me. Sometimes, an advil or something that helps inflammation will help the pain as will a heating pad.

I also learned when in my younger years, some meds will actually cause TMJ. It causes you to clinch your teeth. Make sure a med isn't making it worse.

Issie

[hilbiligrl]

thank you everyone! im still in alot of pain, and had to call my mom at 5 am crying (and i dont cry...... but i had cried, moaned and walked the floors holding my jaw since about 11 last night. Broke down and called mom to take me back to the er. Another morphine shot that did absolutely nothing at all. I was in so much pain all i could do was just cry. They gave me that shot, which done nothing, i still laid there and cried in severe pain and they sent me back home. Even though the pain was not diminished even the tiniest bit.

I was able to calm down a tad for a few hours until my ostepathic doc appt at 10:30.... that's where they do the massaging-slash-chiropractic type moves?? the last time i had it done was about a month ago, and had great results, but i have never in my life experienced pain like this, nor on this level, severity or intensity. So, 2 hours with the docs working on my jaw (had 2 different DOs working on it)...... we accomplished about a 30% reduction in pain. I can almost bear it now, but so wore out from days upon days of no sleep and pain.

We are going to do the mouthpiece. I don't grind my teeth at night but i noticed i stress the jaw, etc during the day sometimes. Oh yea, yes, we do think i have elhers danlos, which was discussed today too. And these DO docs will be doing techniques every 1-2 weeks from now until i see some improvement not only in the jaw but headaches, etc. too, other joints, etc.

My tmj started about 15 years ago.... had to go to an oral surgeon. He then prescribed pain meds and muscle relaxers, due to my jaw was so locked up, you couldn't even get my finger between my teeth, and it was like that for over a month..... then after that episode, i've only had a few mild flare ups along the way, till now.

I really am trying to handle all pains without any pain meds. Do i need them? oh yes, do i ever..... this would be the time, but i seriously don't want to have to take them, and im not even sure they would help, if morphine twice didn't even phase this. I have a feeling i may break down and actually ask for some pain meds.

For now, they decided on another short steriod dose pak..... like for 5 days (i just finished with that prednisone that i started at 30 mg twice daily for 3 days, then tapered down..... being on it a total of 2 weeks. The intense flare up and pain started the very day i stopped the prednisone.... getting more intense the past 2 days.

Also, they said that doxepin was being used for tmj as well and they were having good results from that....... im already taking doxepin, but not daily, just like every other day, due to the mcad flare up. Now it will be increased from 10 mg to 25 mg.... i think at least until the jaw settles????

I still cannot think of anything that i have managed to do to have caused such a quickly intensified and severe pain like it is.... i have never experienced pain on this level, ever... and boy do i ever feel so sorry for those of you that do deal with pain daily...... I have always been tough when it comes to pain but boy has this humbled me and shocked me to say the least.

So, i guess it's prednisone for another few days, increased doxepin and added diclofinac (hope i spelled that right). Im hoping i can tolerate the pain until something in there settles or calms down. oh yea... they taught me a few methods to manipulate my jaw, etc to do some stuff at home.

Bella, im checking that link out most definitely! and everyone else..... you all said things that seems to be right on. I'm trying to pay more attention to how i have my mouth and tongue during the day. I noticed a while ago, that i started to chew on the inside of my cheek, and i was like, omg, stop!

Sigh..... im still in loads of pain. Im still wondering why nothing is touching this pain? tylenol, advil, morphine, toradol..... nothing is touching it whatsoever, which has added more stress and has me in freak out mode...... i honestly thought i would get relief with the morphine shots and im still asking, why did it not even have any effect on the pain? i always thought morphine wiped out all pain. ugh, i hurt so so bad.

Again, thanks everyone i read each post and am totally trying everything everyone mentioned..... cuz i have no idea what else to do. I asked them today what do i do if this intensifies again like it did yesterday/lastnight and im passing out left and right again from the pain (yes, i was passing out with the intense surges, or pain spikes.... even though the pain is constant, im still getting spikes and surges that literally floor me..... i havent drove because of this since thursday when it all started again.

If i sound a little off.... or didn't touch on someone's post, forgive me..... i haven't had sleep since thursday and im still in loads of pain, but at this point, i am bearing it without crying for the most part. And just hoping it eases. Trying to meditate, use relaxation methods in order to try and stay calm and all. But im not accomplishing that very well cuz the pain is so overwhelming. I mean, wow.... i truly didn't know pain existed on such a debilitating level. Im still just shocked at the severe pain..... i just don't get it.

again thank you all very much..... im going to try and rest a bit..... i'll post an update on how it's going

if you are the praying kind..... i would so much love to have your prayers for the pain..... if you aren't.... please send positive thoughts and energy my way...... i just don't know what to do about the pain and it is so unreal

love yu all

tennille

[issie]

Morphine, does nothing for me. I might as well drink water. There is only one heavy duty pain pill I can tolerate and they don't like to use it because it can cause seizures - it's Demorol with anti naseau Phenagan with it. I've had lots of surgies and discovered this the hard way. But, for EDS and the every day chronic pain 1/2 to 1 Tramadol and a Bentyl work for me. (I rotate on and off, so I don't build a tolerance or get addicted.)

[janiedelite]

Tennille, I don't have any more advice to give. But your pain sounds horrible. I just wish you could get some relief.

[tinkerbella]

WISH I COULD HUG YOU Tennille (((((((((GENTLE HUGS))))))))))) ~ Keep us updated and meanwhile, I'll wave my magic wand and poof ~ You should feel all better in a few mins~

Love,

Bellamia ~

[hilbiligrl]

awe man you women are a Godsend!!! I had totally forgot that i have marinol..... and i hadnt taken it in a few days..... so i took a higher dose than what he wrote, but doc is comfortable with me 'experimenting' on doses, etc.... just as long as im not mis-using anything or abusing anything.... but i was like, wait, i have that, let's try it..... i take it..... BAM.... 30 mins to an hour later and my pain has decreased by at least 75%, no joke!!! and im like what??? (i had not taken the new meds yet)....

I really didn't think marinol would work, but now im guessing it does...... very interesting.

im able to feel calm, my jaw no longer feels like a warzone inside there... .and i can't thank God and everybody enough for the relief im feeling!!!!! i can breath again and my jaw feels even relaxed without effort.....

issie, thankful and bella... i have more to say..... im going to rest some more, but totally had to share that.... nothing touches the pain, except for marinol?? That is weird....... but im very glad. Still discomfort and pain, but on a very tolerable level now.... i can tolerate this...... crossing my fingers that it doesn't act up anymore and continues to calm down.... i think the is the first 'break' in the severity of pain that i have had since thursday..... so maybe the DOs and marinol did indeed help... hoping the other meds will help in addition......

im going to rest for a bit.... so good to hear from you bella.... you have been on my mind constantly..... i wish i could come get you and we could take care of each other!!!!! wouldn't that be so nice??!!!

ok... again, i'll rest up, i might be able to sleep for a bit for the first time in days... wow.... just wanted to share right quick.... and i'll be getting back to yall, cuz i have stuff to say... lol....

love you all

tennille

[tinkerbella]

Rest up sweet one, cause we have lots of laughing to do once your TMJ calms down and it will. REMEMBER, I waved my magic wand and you think it's the marinol....Oh what fun we would have if we lived near each other ~

Check on you later ~

Bellamia ~.

[L4UR3N]

Have you ever heard of Trigeminal Neuralgia? ....Just wondering because the symptoms you are describing sound very similar....

[hilbiligrl]

hi you guys... i took a nap for quiet a few hours, seemed like only secs..... but woke up in the severe pain again..... ugh.... so i paced the floors alternating with a cold pack (those gel things) and alternating with heat if i can take it.... i also propped up another pillow and laid back, closed my eyes and massaged both sides of my jaws, joints, gums, under the jaw, the bones behind the ear..... not sure if im doing things right but massaging for a while, deep slow long breathing techniques and just really trying to meditate. I took my night meds pretty late, which included the second dose of todays prednisode, plus the diclofinac, klonopin, and the marinol. So, after pacing for about an hour, heating and icing, then laying upright massing everything for a little while.... oh, and for some reason, when i breathe in, my ear hurts that peircing hurt, but i have signs of infection, etc.... so, i used one of my ear plugs and lightly plugged the ear and it is made a noticable difference as well... i wonder why?....... now im at a bearable pain level thank God........ i was really losing it there thinking, man i can't do this again or any longer ugh

rissy ~ i have heard others talk about it on here, but never really looked it up.... but did just now. That sounds pretty much on the money if you ask me. I wander if an oral surgeon could diagnose that? They are going to refer me to an oral surgeon. I'll have to mention it to my docs! thank you!

to be cont'd

in the meantime... im thankful for some relief again.... hoping it continues to last

[hilbiligrl]

hi you guys... i took a nap for quiet a few hours, seemed like only secs..... but woke up in the severe pain again..... ugh.... so i paced the floors alternating with a cold pack (those gel things) and alternating with heat if i can take it.... i also propped up another pillow and laid back, closed my eyes and massaged both sides of my jaws, joints, gums, under the jaw, the bones behind the ear..... not sure if im doing things right but massaging for a while, deep slow long breathing techniques and just really trying to meditate. I took my night meds pretty late, which included the second dose of todays prednisode, plus the diclofinac, klonopin, and the marinol. So, after pacing for about an hour, heating and icing, then laying upright massing everything for a little while.... oh, and for some reason, when i breathe in, my ear hurts that peircing hurt, but i have signs of infection, etc.... so, i used one of my ear plugs and lightly plugged the ear and it is made a noticable difference as well... i wonder why?....... now im at a bearable pain level thank God........ i was really losing it there thinking, man i can't do this again or any longer ugh

rissy ~ i have heard others talk about it on here, but never really looked it up.... but did just now. That sounds pretty much on the money if you ask me. I wander if an oral surgeon could diagnose that? They are going to refer me to an oral surgeon. I'll have to mention it to my docs! thank you!

to be cont'd

in the meantime... im thankful for some relief again.... hoping it continues to last

typo*** i have NO signs of ear infection, just a little bit of fluid, like bubbles in the ear of the jaw that hurts??

[tinkerbella]

I always go to youtube for videos on the latest products and massage for tmj~ I'm more a visual learner.Check it out

[janiedelite]

Tennille, I think that either an ENT (ear, nose and throat) doctor or a neurologist would know how to diagnose trigeminal neuralgia. The treatments would be the usual treatments for neuropathy: pain meds, neurontin/lyrica, antidepressants, etc. There are lots of different meds that can be tried for neuropathic pain, if it ends up that you have trigeminal neuralgia.

[forevertired]

I agree with Rissy2D and Thankful, if pain meds are not helping your pain, there is a good chance your pain is a neurologic pain. Have you ever seen a neurologist?

[Csmith3]

Hi

I too have TMJ issues. Not in the same league as yours, but still painful and relentless.

I would second the advice about getting a mouthguard or appliance as dentists seem to call them here. You probably need a customised one for it to work properly. I went to a dentist trained in malocclusion who was able to fit the right appliance and make numerous adjustments as my jaw and bite changed over time. If you are aware that sometimes during the day you are applying to much pressure through your jaw, chances are that this is happening at night (clenching rather than grinding). The fact that you find your jaw can be stiff and doesn't want to open far is also a sign that you may be clenching it. You might find that you need an appliance that fits on your top teeth rather than the more common ones for tooth grinding that protect the lower teeth. For me, when the appliance is working, I get 80 - 100% pain relief.

I am now several years down the line and the appliance (number 4) is only providing a partial solution and something more drastic is required because i am told that building up the appliance further could aggravate other problems. Surgery is an option but the results are variable so I am leaving this as a last resort.

I have a chiropractor who puts the jaw back into place which is a bit brutal but is helpful. The chiropractor has advised me to see one of the three most experienced dentists who also deal with surgery/TMJ/craniofacial pain etc. I am told it may be possible to bring my lower jaw forward and make the joint/mandibles more stable and give me a better bite; all without surgery. I dread to think how this is achievable and was told that it will change my facial appearance (I wasn't sure if the chiropractor was suggesting this was a good thing or not!)

This specialist is miles away from me but I will see him over the next few months and I understand that after about 3 hours inspection and scanning he will give an opinion on whether he can help and if so, what it would involve.

It seems that as with all things related to dystautonomia/connective tissue problems, it is a case of finding the right person to fix things and then either having a lot of money or good insurance to pay for it.

Best wishes. I really feel for you being in so much pain.

[Trach]

Tennille,

I have trigeminal neuralgia and TMJ pain. The only thing that has worked for me is a nerve block. I have had it done by a pain specialist/anesthesiologist and also by a neurologist who specializes in pain treatments. I also have EDS hypermobility type.

Although my nerve blocks did not last as long as most patients (the first trigeminal block lasted approximately 2 months and the second approximately 4 -6 months ) the relief was amazing. No more ear and jaw pain!

I was just diagnosed by a geneticist who specializes in EDS. Since that time she has set up referrals for a pain specialist and a cardiologist who understand EDS and POTS.

If you can find a doc who specializes in EDS regarding your pain you will be much better off. Prior to my diagnosis I made an appointment with a well recommended neuro/pain doc for migraines. When I met with him last week, I updated him on my EDS diagnosis. He told me the problem I have had with my left hip most of my life was physically impossible yet my problem is discussed on the EDS boards.

I hope you feel better soon.

[klgpdx]

Hi! I've been wanting to reply for days, but had to get my account validated! I seriously feel for you and hope you find relief!

So my TMJ pain has never been as bad as yours and I probably respond better to pain killers, but here are the things that have helped me:

DO: provided temporary localized relief but did not solve the root of the problem so I had to keep going back.

TMJ specialist: spent $5k on getting the best possible splint (guard) for my bite. They used this technology that can create a mouth guard that puts your bite in the exact place it needs to be to have the least stress. I got a lower night time guard and a lower day time guard, but I couldn't stand the day time one. The guards work best during your sleep anyway, because it allows your muscles to relax. (still only provided 90% relief... I had headaches one day a week instead of all seven).

Advil PM: regarding sleep... Pain killers for me only work when they knock me out. Advil PM allows my whole body to relax to let the Ibprofen work. It is my saving grace anytime I feel a TMJ headache coming on.

Rolfing: seeing a rolfer allowed me stop using the night guard. Sometimes TMJ pain is simply a problem with a bad bite, but I have been told that other times it can be from a maladjusted spine. So while the rolfer did jaw work with me, having him straighten my spine helped a lot more.

Structural integration (basically same thing as Rolfing) combined with chiropractic work: right now I am seeing a doctor who does both and I have been pain free for three weeks!! I honestly don't know a time in my life when that was true.

Good luck! This is my first post to the forum, so I hope I was clear that this is just worked for me and in no way medical advice!