REM Sleep Problems

[guvna2004]

Does anyone ever awake suddenly or drift into rem sleep and then awake suddenly? The problem is i awake and notice my HR is either LOW or HIGH. My HR only ever stays like this for about a minuite maximum, but it is very annoying, and happens nearly every day and has been for about 2 years. My HR isnt just a little bit low, ive recorded it at about 40bpm at one time. Sometimes it feels low but inactual fact its racing. Is it just me or does anyone else get this? Im sorry if im being annoying with my constant posts, but your advice benefits me. I dont use the net often as i have no access to it, except every friday when i babysit at my moms.

[steph37822]

oops

[yogini]

Guvna,

I just got POTS in Feb of last year, but I have had this symptom once every couple of months or so for many years - being woken up from a deep sleep because my heart was beating too fast. It is always scary. Actually now that I am on the beta blocker I don't really get this that much anymore.

FYI bradycardia (low HR) is also a symptom of POTS. Do you take a beta blocker?

It took me several months to get used to some of these weird POTS symptoms (I am still getting used to some of them), so I think it's great that you're asking so many questions.

[guvna2004]

No i dont take Beta Blockers, tablets are not for me. The way i see it is theres always a natural way. I was given beta blockers but i was told i dont HAVE to take them.

[Gena]

This happens to me too. It's frustrating. But it goes in phases for me - I don't have it every night. My HR, if it's too slow will waken me just as I drift into REM. And if it's too high, I often start dreaming that I'm having symtpoms and that will awaken me.

[guvna2004]

Yeah i get exactlth same. I dont get them EVERY night but on most nights. I often feel funny for the firs to mins when i lie down, after that im fine. Sleep is the Best. I start work on monday. OOuch,

[ramakentesh]

When my POTS was bad I had all sorts of sleeop disturbances - surging feelings in my head, breathlessness, etc and light sleep that all affected me -

[walstib9]

I have never had a good nights sleep n my entire life. They noticed things as young as 5 wks old. It's hard to read your posts cause quality sleep is so important. Sometimes I want that more than most things. Constant waking. Constant dreaming. A doctor did finally convince me though that even though it will probably always be this way, the less sress and sadness we have, the better we sleep. Or at least the dream/waking disturbances have a less abrupt component. Only 1 sleep med has ever worked but nothing stops the dreaming.

Maybe we could all go to a resort in the South Pacific where its' real quiet and SLEEP and lay on the beach. Much support to you.

[guvna2004]

Good idea. There should be a once in a year trip to a resort in a hot country, were we all meet up for 2 weeks. A POTS Holiday, discounted prices, ect. Just a thought, but it gives us a chance to meet, even though everyones propably millions of miles apart.

[walstib9]

"......even though everyone is probably a million miles apart....." OK-THAT brought some weepy! Cause in some ways...now that we've found others on our planet that we thought we were alone on........we're closer. I am a road-tripper though so anytime! Seriously, SLEEP issues are so so horrific for me. Makes everything harder. Unrest. The merry-go-round of pots etc. I have been in 3 sleep labs prior to my diagnosis and they would say," ah..er....DAH....geee...we..ah have never seen this so...ah...ok....bye"

Something happened tonight and I have a few demons at present so I am even afraid to go to bed later. Glad I love to read. I can literally tell you the TWO times I have slept through the night in the last 7 yrs. God-how sad. Thing about me/us is we are so GIVING. That has to be held on to in spite of. I went to a mall today with someone for a litle while which I never ever do and boy did I KNOW when I had to sit and grab a bite. Like ALL the info I have found, I never knew why I got so confused in them. Then the info said the LIGHTS, murmuring of voices, upright gets all jarbled. Again-I just thought I was NUTS cause I could never remember which way to go coming out of a store I had been in a lot. SO SO many answers upon diagnosis.

But what I would give for a night's sleep w/o CONSTANT dreaming and going potty and waking and turning over. To wake refreshed! Ready for the day AND in turn, ready for the imbalances caused by all this.

BRING ME A GLASS WITH AN LITTLE UMBRELLA IN IT! (no alcohol though)

HUGS to all of you!

[walstib9]

The anxiety and cog problems that fitfull sleep causes. I was right but I KNEW it would happen. didn't make it happen. I re-lived badness all night in my dreams last night as a result of an event of yesterday. Today: means nothing. Just more hopelessness, more POTS, more on the island of Misfit Toys. ALL life's wrongs being my fault. Tapes in my head. Tired and wired. ): I have touched on this before but am un-healthily isolated so there's no one within 1000 miles to even give a hug. Pity-pot day? maybe. My brain is broken and I hurt. Where's those plane tics to the SPacific?

[avais1]

I, too, have a horrible time at night. For me, it's "all the monsters (anxiety, thoughts, POTS, you name it) all come out of the closet at night. But I learned a trick from one of my girlfriends who recently battled breast cancer. At night, when she gets a "mindstorm", she tells herself this: "I have a choice". I can choose to lie here and go on with this mindstorm, which probably will not get me anywhere, OR I can practice some relaxation techniques, read, etc.

I can tell you that just about every night, I have said "I have a choice." And I do, and I choose not to let these mindstorms get the best of me. When the POTS hits, it hits. I just lie still, and try not to panic too much about it.

Just know that you may be physically isolated, but you are by no means alone.

Take Care!

[walstib9]

(((avais1))) It's all usually AFTER I fall asleep. Though I guess we can not call it sleep. Strength? Used to have it.

Thank you.

[walstib9]

):

[walstib9]

THIS WAs/IS me. Not so much the social stuff but the not 'jumpin' in. Note how it says we drew strength others don't have to keep a tryin'..........

Some people have told me lately (other dysoautonomias!) that they have never had cog problems. I beg to differ ! (said in jest and respect) amazing article.

Depression and Anxiety in Adolescent CFS, FM and OI

"adolescent girls with CFS showed strengths such as adequate self-esteem

and scholastic and social abilities, and weaknesses such as low competence in

adolescent-specific tasks and internalizing distress, which may partly be

explained by syndrome-specific somatic complaints." ~ van Middendorp et al

Anxiety and depression may be experienced as a result of the disbelief, hurtful

comments, loss of socialization time and learning difficulties faced by kids

with chronic illnesses such as Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS), Fibromyalgia

(FM), and Orthostatic Intolerance (OI). Losing the ability to participate in

activities that helped define an adolescent's self-image, seeing friends drift

away, being teased by disbelieving peers, and facing the possibility that

medical treatments will not help can be very difficult. Adolescents may be

frustrated by their inability to push through their symptoms and achieve in the

same ways they did when they were healthy. They may be deeply upset by the

possibility that they may not recover. There are many issues for them to face

and come to terms with prior to and immediately after a diagnosis.

It is also thought that depression and anxiety may occur as part of the

neuroendocrine changes that are part of CFS and FM. For example, anxiety may be

triggered by the surges of catecholamines that occur during presyncope and

orthostatic tachycardia, common experiences for youth with CFS and forms of

orthostatic intolerance such as neurally mediated hypotension (NMH) or postural

orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS).

It is often possible to differentiate between CFS, FM, and major depressive

disorder. A comparison of adolescents with CFS and adolescents with depression

finds higher self-esteem and feelings of self-efficacy in those with CFS. In

addition, adolescent CFS subjects have less depressive symptoms and antisocial

behavior than do their peers with major depression (Carter, 1995; Carter, 1996).

Characteristics such as life changes, cognitive difficulties, negative

self-attributions, social relationship disruption, and somatic symptom

presentation may also be used to differentiate between idiopathic chronic

fatigue (ICF), depression, and controls (Carter, 1996).

The area of overlap between adolescent CFS and adolescent depression that has

received the most attention is the internalization of distress. Three studies of

adolescent girls with CFS (Pelcovitz, 1995; Carter, 1999; van Middendorp, 2001)

and one study of adolescents with several months of idiopathic chronic fatigue

(Carter, 1995) reported high scores on measures of internalizing. The evidence

of increased rates of depression in adolescent ICF (Smith, 1991; Carter, 1995b)

and CFS (Brace, 2000; E Garralda, 1999), and of anxiety in CFS (E Garralda,

1999), has added to interest in this area. However, researchers continue to

report that adolescents with CFS can be differentiated from those with major

depression.

Despite the challenges they face, adolescents with CFS have psychological

strengths that they draw upon. Normal achievement motivation, no unusual fear of

failure, high internal locus of control, and the use of palliative reaction

patterns are reported in adolescent CFS (van Middendorp, 2001). Normal

adjustment for psychosocial self-esteem and social abilities is is also found in

adolescent girls with CFS (van Middendorp, 2001; E Garralda, 1999). Total

competence is higher in CFS than in adolescent juvenile rheumatoid arthritis

(Brace, 2000). Syndrome-specific somatic complains and the impact of the loss of

socialization time may help explain low perceived competence in specific

adolescent domains for girls with CFS, such as athletics and romance (van

Middendorp, 2001).

The questions raised by comparing adolescent depression, CFS, and juvenile

rheumatoid arthritis are explored in this interview with Bryan Carter, PhD.