Magnesium!!!

[juliegee]

Hey All-

I've been researching ways to reverse my newly found heart damage- disastolic dysfunction- the 1st stage in congestive heart failure. Various researchers have come up with different ideas for WHY this occurs. Drs. Lerner & Cheney suspect that it's latent herpes-type viruses (like EBV/CMV) running amok and damaging the heart. Dr. Myhill from the UK thinks that mitochdrial dysfunction that leads to magnesium deficiency is at the root of disatolic dysfunction experienced by dysautonomia and CFS patients http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Magnesium_-_treating_a_deficiency Regardless, ALL agree that MAGNESIUM can actually reverse this. Dr. Weil even contends that magnesium is an effective natural treatment for POTS: http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/QAA400304/pacing-a-racing-heart.html

Magnesium seems to enhance the body's ability to relax and is great at counteracting our sympathetic nervous systems that tend to be in chronic overdrive. In diastolic dysfunction, the wall that divides the heart becomes brittle & inhibits the heart's ability to relax so that it can appropriately fill with blood. Studies have repeatedly shown that magnesium can effectively reverse this. Wow.

I've begun magnesium supplementation with interesting results. I settled on a dose of 500mg. I take it at night with my calcium. I have NEVER slept as well in my whole life. I was concerned that I was dosing myself too high & cut back to 250mg last night & had the most restless night of sleep. I'm going back to 500mg tonight & can't wait to hit the pillow

When it comes to choosing the right dose for you, I recommend checking with your doctor. Excess magnesium can be hard on your kidneys. If you have any renal issues, use extreme caution. Otherwise it seems amazingly well tolerated. The only side effect seems to be diarrhea. The kidneys secrete what we don't need The recommended dietary intake is around 300-350 mg. We also get magnesium in our diets from leafy greens, some fish, brown rice & whole wheat. If you exercise or drink alcohol, you may need more than the recommended amounts. Apparently POTS patients and heart patients need much more. The links above include dosing recommendations. Dr. Weil suggests up to 1,000 mg a day for POTS patients- titrated up. And, My Myhill suggests dosing UNTIL you develop diarrhea and then backing down slightly below that. At 500mg, I have experienced no "D" and fabulous sleep. My tachy may even be lessened. My next echo will reveal if I'm having any effect on my diastolic dysfunction... Fingers crossed. This is exciting stuff. I don't recall seeing it here before so thought I'd share

Julie

[roxie]

This is interesting bc I've been thinking about taking magnesium lately. I was looking through old newsletters recently & saw this in winter/spring 2008

I have read on several websites that it's helpful for people with POTS to take a magnesium supplement. My son is a teenager with POTS, and his doctor didn't really have an opinion on whether magnesium would be helpful or not. The reason I'm hesitating is that I am under the impression that magnesium is a blood vessel dilator, which is why it's used to treat migraines. With POTS, our goal is to constrict the blood vessels, not dilate them, right? So how can magnesium be helpful?”

About magnesium:

While it is true that large doses of magnesium can lower blood pressure, magnesium is still almost an essential supplement for those with POTS/Orthostatic Intolerance. Studies in the late 80’s and early 90’s, done originally on patients with MVP, but later on OI subtypes like POTS in general, have shown that the majority of these patients were deficient in magnesium. The interesting part is that most of the time, just checking the blood for magnesium shows a normal level. But Stanford University developed a test (study for research and not available commercially) where they broke open the red blood cells and measured magnesium. This showed the majority of OI/POTS patients had low intracellular magnesium that contributed to the patient’s symptoms. So magnesium is an important part of treatment, although magnesium alone is usually not enough on its own to control symptoms. You should use just over-the-counter magnesium supplements in doses prescribed on the bottle or your physician can write a prescription for a magnesium supplement.

& also read about taking if from this article:

http://www.hospitalsoup.com/health-conditions/postural-orthostatic-tachycardia-syndrome-things-that-helped-me-with-pots-recovery

What kind are you taking? In the above article she says magnesium glycinate is best.

Does it make you super sleepy? I'd love to take it before bed but just started iron bc my ferritin is super low & you aren't supposed to take the two together

[lieze]

I agree magnesium is great-just be careful because it can drop your blood pressure.

It's what they give to pregnant women who go into preeclampsia-mag sulfate.

When I went in for a 24 hour observation it's what the on call cardiologist ordered was a big dose of magnesium and propranolol. My nurse held the propranolol but gave me the magnesium right away I knew what it would do to my bp.

The next morning my bp was 70/40. They offered me another in the am and I refused.

It did relax me and I did have to run to the bathroom.

I'm drinking ensure and it has magnesium in it.

I am feeling better in my core for the most part than I have in a long time.

Heart rates and bp's are pretty good.

I want to see what about 3 months of 2 ensure per day plus gaining about 10 pounds does for me.

[toddm1960]

I've been on the magnesium train for around 3 years, mostly because fiber made my slow motility worse I discovered magnesium got things moving. I take 800mg each morning, it's nice to know it could be helping with disastolic dysfunction also.

Bananas remember the first rule of dysautonomia, what helps half of us, makes the other half feel worse. I'm in the sympathetic overdrive group so any diolation helps me. ( I'm starting niacin this week also ) You do bring up a good point though for the hypotensive part of our group, be careful with the amounts you start with. Start slow and work your way up.

[Crow]

Dr Francomano in Baltimore often recommends magnesium soaks (epsom salt) to her Ehlers Danlos patients because it is [can't think of the word LOL] better that way rather than taking a supplement.

https://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=168190497410&topic=13390

[skiberthoud]

Interesting. I just started taking magnesium for my migraines and I've started taking epsom salt baths, too. Just wish had a bigger tub - lol. I'm curious to see how helpful these prove to be. Thanks for the topic, Mack's Mom and I hope your next echo is promising!

[MamaTrain]

Great info MM! I have read that some forms of magnesium are better for the side effect of diarrhea than other forms. Cant remember which one they said is better so check it out!

[MomtoGiuliana]

I'd like to know what form and amount everyone takes?

I tried taking a supplement in the past and it caused diarrhea and no noticeable symptom change, but my POTS doctor has mentioned that when I have a flare up that I probably need to take Mg.

[yuliya]

an article article different types of magnesium and there uses. Not all magnesium is the same.

http://www.brighthub.com/health/alternative-medicine/articles/57614.aspx

Importance of Magnesium

Magnesium is the fourth most plentiful mineral in the body and is necessary for the health of every organ in the body. Magnesium is particularly important for the healthy function of the heart, muscles, and kidneys. This essential mineral assists in energy production and aids in regulating many mineral and vitamin levels in the body, such as potassium, vitamin D, zinc, calcium, and copper.

Magnesium Citrate

Magnesium citrate is a type of magnesium used most often in the treatment of diarrhea. It can also be used prior to certain stomach procedures to help clear the bowel. This type of magnesium is taken as an oral supplement and should only be taken short-term.

Magnesium Gluconate

Magnesium gluconate is a type of magnesium used most often to correct a magnesium deficiency. It can also be used to help maintain healthy levels of magnesium in the body. However, it can be used in the treatment of certain other medical conditions as determined by a doctor. This type of magnesium is taken as an oral supplement and can be taken long-term.

Magnesium Lactate

Magnesium lactate is a type of magnesium that is also used to correct a magnesium deficiency. It can also be used to treat certain medical conditions, such as heartburn, indigestion, and upset stomach. This type of magnesium can be taken as an oral supplement or it can be injected under the supervision of a nurse or doctor. The injectable form is used when correcting a magnesium deficiency. Both forms can be taken for as long as they are needed.

Magnesium Oxide

Magnesium oxide is a type of magnesium most often used to help maintain healthy levels of magnesium in the body. However, it can be used in the treatment of certain other medical conditions as determined by a doctor. This type of magnesium can be taken for long periods of time by most people and is taken as an oral supplement.

Magnesium Hydroxide

Magnesium hydroxide is a type of magnesium that is most often used as an antacid or as a laxative. When it is used as a laxative, it should only be used to alleviate constipation occasionally. It should only be used occasionally as an antacid as well to alleviate indigestion, sour stomach, and heartburn. This type of magnesium is taken as an oral supplement and should only be used short-term.

Magnesium Sulfate

Magnesium sulfate is a type of magnesium supplement most commonly used in multivitamins. When magnesium sulfate is administered in high doses, it can be used to help treat convulsions, a magnesium deficiency, childhood acute kidney inflammation, and pre-eclampsia in pregnant women. This type of magnesium can be taken as an oral supplement or it can be injected. It is taken short-term for certain conditions and it is taken on a long-term basis for other conditions.

Read more: http://www.brighthub.com/health/alternative-medicine/articles/57614.aspx#ixzz1D13gIkhW

[sue1234]

I am the weird person here(not the first time!). Over the last few years, whenever a doctor has done labwork and included Mg++, mine has ALWAYS been on the very upper limit. I don't know why. I have read that people with kidney issues have trouble clearing Mg++, but my kidneys are fine.

I take Milk of Magnesia for bowel issues, but from what I understand, the magnesium here is not absorbed.

In the last 10 years, I have tried off/on to take a Mg++ supplement, and every time I get muscle spasms, hot flashes, and I think now it was probably some vasodilation. In fact, I read up on Mg++ sulfate a couple of years ago, because I had read some stories on ladies that had to have it due to eclampsia. There side effects were being hot and lightheaded when standing! In fact, they said they couldn't even get up to go to the bathroom because of the weakness and lightheadedness. I was trying to understand how that might correlate with my highish blood Mg++ levels and my POTS symptoms. So, besides the Milk of Magnesia, I usually stay away from Mg++ because I don't know why mine sits at such a high level naturally.

When I was researching about Mg++, I found out it(at high levels) can lower Ca++. So, I was reading about lower Ca++ levels, and it said that in that case, it lowers aldosterone levels. I already have lowish aldosterone levels, so I didn't want that to happen.

It is confusing, for sure. I think I am one of the few that Mg++ supplementation would not work for me. I must have something out of balance, and haven't figured out yet what and how to fix it.

[lieze]

I am thinking the Magnesium you are taking could make your Magnesium levels high Sue why not?

It says right on Maalox bottle to not take longer than a certain amount of days because it can mess up your electrolyte balance I'm thinking.

And you are correct people with kidney failure are not allowed magnesium products I remember that.

You might find another way to keep your bowels moving senokot? Simethicone and see how it affects everything else.

Okay on the magnesium I asked my doctor about the ensure because it has magnesium and I know it drops my bp.

My husband had given me the pocari sweat which is an electrolyte drink from japan and it has magnesium along with potassium in it.

The first day it gave me a lift. By the second my bp was 80/40 and I was feeling as if I needed to lay flat for several hours.

My doctor said the magnesium is different in the ensure and wouldn't have that effect on me because it is bound in other things and a dietary source?

What I'm seeing on my bottle is Magnesium Phosphate and magnesium chloride.

One bottle of ensure contains 25% of the daily required dose of magnesium based on a 2,000 calorie diet.

I just looked up recommended DV of magnesium =400 mg?

[sue1234]

Leize, the Mg++ levels that I had high on labwork were drawn a few years ago, before I even took Milk of Magnesia. A chemist friend of mine explained that the Mg++ in laxatives, from what I understand, does not get absorbed. It irritates the intestines and attracts water, thus the laxative effect.

But, I could be absorbing a tiny bit, and that could be tipping my already highish levels over the top. I don't know. What i do know is NOTHING works to move my bowels except MOM. I was reading some people do well with Mestinon. It sounds like its g.i. effects might be useful to me. It's just to get a doctor to even begin to think the prescribe it to me. Since I've had POTS, the absolute ONLY med the doctors throw at be are alpha or beta blockers. Nothing else.

[comfortzone]

Peter Gillham's proprietary preparation called Natural Calm again won awards for the year 2010. This is a magnesium supplement that you can purchase at health food stores or on-line on sites such as Amazon. If you haven't tried it - you might like it. It is a powder in a tall cannister. The idea is to make a soothing hot 'tea' or bevarage if you will ~ You take your dose - say a Tablespoon and put in a mug - then add your very warm or hot water. The mixture will bubble and foam rather furiously at first - stir and soon you will have your drink. They flavor it in a few different varieties - such as a lemon citrus or a raspberry -- probably others.

You can certainly make it in a cold water as well though it won't fizz ~ As with magnesium in other forms - you can dose to your bodies ability to handle gi bowel symptoms. Start with the lower dose and titrate upward - the directions are on the label.

It can help with sleep and relaxation etc.... It's easy on your body - rather pleasant to drink as supplements go. Sip this while soaking your feet in a epsom salts bath - you get a double dose of magnesium as magnesium can be absorbed through the skin to good effect with epsom salt soaks.

That's all :-)

[houswoea]

Hi friends,

I am taking magnesium too! I just started recently. It wasn't for pots but for the slow-motion gi issue. I was scared at first because it brought my heart rate so far down. On good days, it used to be at least 120 sitting. It brought my heart rate down to the low 70s and even as far down as the high 50s after IV saline.

I'm not sure how I feel about it. It kinda freaks me out!

Elizabeth

[lieze]

Can you just adjust your dose?

[houswoea]

Probably :-P I was waiting to see if it was just a coincidence or if it was the magnesium.

I will say that it brings my heart rate down wayyy more than a BB ever has. It's a good thing

[issie]

There are connections between balance with magnesium, calcium and potassium. All imbalances - too high, too low - is going to throw the body's systems off. I know that epsoms will lower the bp and it can also be a laxative. It is sometimes used to lower bp's for preganant women and it is a laxative. I think ANYTHING you put into your body can and will affect something. If your magnesium levels are too high you will have another mineral imbalance. If you have bad orthostatic issues with low bp's it might not be the way to go.

[jem15]

Mack's mom- I'm curious if you had a 2nd echo yet, after the first one which stated diastolic dysfunction? About a year ago, I had an echo that showed "grade 1 diastolic dysfunction". I've had mitral valve prolapse w/regurgitation show up over the years, but never the diastolic dysfunction. The cardiologist didnt know why I had it since I'm young.. she thought maybe it was a result of the mitral valve prolapse all these years putting some sort of strain on the heart. Anyway, she didnt think I should do anything then, but said if it progresses, they use diuretics to treat it? ha, which i didnt really get, and i already pee all the time, so dont think that'd work out.... but anyway...

since that dr was a bit hyper/high anxiety.. i went to another cardiologist a year later and he didnt note any diastolic dysfunction on his echo... he said it sometimes just depends on how they read it, it's subject to interpretation.. but the 2nd guy didnt think there was any diastolic dysfunction at all... and he said even if i had grade 1 i shouldnt really feel any symptoms.. cause i've felt chest heaviness since chemo, but they're tellin me it's not the heart. and he didnt think the mitral valve prolapse would cause it either..who knows... anyway,i kinda just accepted what the 2nd guy said cause i have too much stuff going on.. ha, and i rather the "you dont have it" diagnosis.. maybe when i'm due again in another 2-3yrs, i'll try a different cardio and see who he/she agrees with.

anyway, i just wanted to mention that, cause i'm curious if you got a 2nd opinion, if they also saw the diastolic dysfunction or not?

[juliegee]

LOVE your story, Caterpilly!!! I want my DD to go away too You make me laugh with your decision about WHO to believe. I agree: the doc with the news you want

I have another echo on 2/24. My docs think that whatever is causing the disease process in my fingers and toes is also affecting my heart and lung- also full of tiny arteries. This cardio apparently KNOWS alot about connective tissue disorders and the potential complications that accompany them.

I've cut out all added salt in my food & cooking, but eat anything regardless of sodium content. I made a stir fry with Szechuan sauce tonight- salty! I'm also keeping up my running/yoga & adding the magnesium. Fingers crossed that it'll make a difference. I'll let you know.

Hugs-

Julie

[jem15]

Ha, yea, I usually wouldn't just accept the blow off of the other dr's diagnosis as lightly... but for some reason, at the time it made sense.. i specifically told the 2nd guy to look for it, and he swore it's not there.. the 1st lady was quite hyper too, so i'm blaming it on that;-)

Anyway, that's great the cardio knows about connective tissue stuff too, good luck with the echo!

[janiedelite]

Well, I tried Mg for 3 weeks. First week I took 250mg/day and from then on I took 500mg/day. Unfortunately, I had a reaction like Sue1234 described. I already have flushing issues, but the magnesium sent it up to almost constant levels. I also had whole-body flushing which I only had when my POTS was totally uncontrolled a few years ago. If my flushing consisted of only a red face, that would be fine. But my burning skin pain was made much worse because of the excessive blood flow to my skin.

Also, I didn't have any benefit from it that I could tell.

No major harm done, though. I'll keep trying stuff in the hopes that I'll get some relief someday!

[juliegee]

Sorry to hear that I have to say that this has been nothing short of a miracle med for me. Unlike you, I've had NO negative reactions (and I react to everything.) My diastolic dysfunction is apparently gone . My HR and BP are consistently much lower. I sleep great at night and my intractable bowels are loosening a smidge. All good.

[lieze]

I've really seen improvement with the vitamins and minerals I get in my ensure.

Which includes magnesium.

My heart does not race like it did.

I feel my inner core is not as weak.

I do not have those episodes where I feel as if I'm just going to collapse or that I'm suffocating.

It's made a big difference.

I can't identify what exactly it is.

The ensure itself leaves a bad taste in my mouth and I sometimes like to go a day without it, but the overall benefit I'm seeing is remarkable.

I hope it continues.

[Sallysblooms]

I take mag. powder in the morning and before bed. My doctor told me the amount to take. It has been great. So important for many things and helpful for relaxation of the muscles.

[issie]

I've found that if I need to do a liver cleanse my distolic will be high. I can use milk thistle for a few weeks and get the bowels regular and all that changes. No more high distolic. Maybe that's one of the reasons the magnesium helps too. Of course, epsom salts (which is magnesium) is one of the things given to pregnant women for high blood pressure when you can't give meds. (Old fashion remedy.)