Is Pots The Same As Chronic Fatigue Syndrome?

[Nauthiz]

I looked up the symptoms of CFS and the symptoms match me identically it also says that Othorstatic intolerance is a symptom, is CFS and POTs directly related?

Here is from the website.

Primary Symptoms

As the name chronic fatigue syndrome suggests, this illness is accompanied by fatigue. However, it's not the kind of fatigue patients experience after a particularly busy day or week, after a sleepless night or after a stressful event. It's a severe, incapacitating fatigue that isn't improved by bed rest and that may be exacerbated by physical or mental activity. It's an all-encompassing fatigue that results in a dramatic decline in both activity level and stamina.

People with CFS function at a significantly lower level of activity than they were capable of prior to becoming ill. The illness results in a substantial reduction in occupational, personal, social or educational activities.

A CFS diagnosis should be considered in patients who present with six months or more of unexplained fatigue accompanied by other characteristic symptoms. These symptoms include:

* cognitive dysfunction, including impaired memory or concentration

* postexertional malaise lasting more than 24 hours (exhaustion and increased symptoms) following physical or mental exercise

* unrefreshing sleep

* joint pain (without redness or swelling)

* persistent muscle pain

* headaches of a new type or severity

* tender cervical or axillary lymph nodes

* sore throat

Other Common Symptoms

In addition to the eight primary defining symptoms of CFS, a number of other symptoms have been reported by some CFS patients. The frequency of occurrence of these symptoms varies among patients. These symptoms include:

* irritable bowel, abdominal pain, nausea, diarrhea or bloating

* chills and night sweats

* brain fog

* chest pain

* shortness of breath

* chronic cough

* visual disturbances (blurring, sensitivity to light, eye pain or dry eyes)

* allergies or sensitivities to foods, alcohol, odors, chemicals, medications or noise

* difficulty maintaining upright position (orthostatic instability, irregular heartbeat, dizziness, balance problems or fainting)

* psychological problems (depression, irritability, mood swings, anxiety, panic attacks)

* jaw pain

* weight loss or gain

Clinicians will need to consider whether such symptoms relate to a comorbid or an exclusionary condition; they should not be considered as part of CFS other than they can contribute to impaired functioning.

[ana_22]

From what i understand - most ppl with CFS have POTS

BUT having POTS does not mean you have CFS.

[ramakentesh]

its confusing. Ive read so many websites where the symptoms of CFS are reported as identical to what I suffer. I met a guy that had CFS and he reported the same symptoms as me but his tilt table test was totally negative for POTS. Confusing.

I think there are studies that suggest that 50-90% of CFS patients have POTS. Other studies say that most CFS patients have Neurally Mediated Hypotension as well.

A lot of Fibro patients also have POTS so maybe its as the person above said - many with CFS have POTs but not every POTs has CFS. (I dont seem to have a low immune system as an example, mine seems almost too good).

[Poohbear]

From what i understand - most ppl with CFS have POTS

BUT having POTS does not mean you have CFS

.

It's actually the other way around----people with POTS are said to have Chronic Fatigue as a symptom but those diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue may or may not have POTS.

[juliegee]

My son's doc at Hopkins (Dr. Peter Rowe, head of the CFS clinic) was among the first to make this connection. His study indicated that 90% of people with CFS do have a form of dysautonomia- neurally mediated hpotension. Many with NMH also have POTS.

According to Dr. Rowe, to get a DX of CFS, a patient would also have some of the following: depression, anxiety, food allergies, asthma, infection, movement restrictions, Chiari type 1 or c-spine stenosis, EDS, or pelvic venous incompetence. The more of these conditions that the patient experiences, the stronger the clinical DX.

My son has NMH and CFS.

Julie

[summer]

This is an interesting question to me. I was actually given both of these diagnosis' by the same doctor on the same day. I have always wondered about it.

Yes, the symptoms are very similar if not identical, but, I thought in order to receive a diagnosis of CFS, there could be no other medical or psychological explanation for the symptoms.

....So if POTS explains my symptoms, and is a measurable, objective diagnosis, why would I need a second diagnosis of CFS?

Summer

[EarthMother]

I also have a diagnosis of both POTS and CFS. My POTS diagnosis came several years after my CFS diagnosis.

It has been my experience that you can have one or the other or both, but that not everyone with POTS has chronic fatigue, as well as not everyone with CFS has ortho intolerance.

I noticed for instance, that one of my daughters has postural tachycardia. Her heart rate jumps up as high as mine does from supine to standing. However she is not symptomatic at all. Looking back, I imagine my body was much like hers at that age. My doctors wrote in my chart "tachycardia on mild physical exertion." And this was when I was in excellent physical condition. My daughter jogs, works, goes to school and is healthy as a horse (that is a strange expression isn't it?)

In fact, I remember reading a military study recently that talked about screening hundreds of cadets for POTS and they came up with a large number who met the traditional criteria on head up tilt. Again, here's a group of HEALTHY young people who are in peak physical condition. Yet they also had symptoms of POTS on tilt. The researchers then put a pool of these "newly diagnosed POTS" candidates into several groups -- one being a high aeorobic training group. These recruits ran for like 20-30 minutes several times a week. The upshot of the "study" was that POTS could be CURED with aerobic activity. Silly scientists. The problem of course, is that these "sound bytes" tend to get picked up by others who are citing "research" and then they forget to mention that these were all HEALTHY young adult men and women. Hardly what we could consider Dysautonomia patients.

Ok, off my soap box.

The point that I was trying to allude to ... was that having a technical diagnosis of tachycardia upon standing does not always go hand in hand with an illness like CFS.

[Nauthiz]

its confusing. Ive read so many websites where the symptoms of CFS are reported as identical to what I suffer. I met a guy that had CFS and he reported the same symptoms as me but his tilt table test was totally negative for POTS. Confusing.

I think there are studies that suggest that 50-90% of CFS patients have POTS. Other studies say that most CFS patients have Neurally Mediated Hypotension as well.

A lot of Fibro patients also have POTS so maybe its as the person above said - many with CFS have POTs but not every POTs has CFS. (I dont seem to have a low immune system as an example, mine seems almost too good).

my immune system *****, do you do anything special!?

[flop]

Comparing POTS and CFS can be difficult, especially as there are so many different definitions of CFS. In the UK one of the major criteria to be diagnosed with CFS is recurrent sore throat and recurrent swollen lymph nodes ("glands"). Also the absence of any other illness that could explain the fatigue.

I know of someone who was receiving treatment / support for CFS but when they were diagnosed with POTS they were told that they couldn't remain in the CFS treatment service (NHS funding issue) because they now had an explanation for their fatigue!!!!

Personally I have been dignosed with POTS, I also have a lot of problems with fatigue but I don't fit the UK criteria for CFS/ME at all.

Flop

[erikainorlando]

I saw an EP who told me that POTS and CFS were related. He said see you are fatigued. right? But I have to say, I am not fatigued like I need to sleep. I am fatigued like I can't move and my body has to sit/recline and rest. This has always been confusing for me. I am weak and physically tire so easily but nothing to do with sleep.

Does this make sense?

Thanks,

Erika

[ramakentesh]

to Dr. Rowe, to get a DX of CFS, a patient would also have some of the following: depression, anxiety, food allergies, asthma, infection, movement restrictions, Chiari type 1 or c-spine stenosis, EDS, or pelvic venous incompetence. The more of these conditions that the patient experiences, the stronger the clinical DX.

However it should be noted that this is not the widely accepted diagnostic defitinion of CFS. The definition varies between countries, but they are in general variations of this:

The most commonly used diagnostic criteria and definition of CFS for research and clinical purposes was published by the United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).[3] The CDC definition of CFS requires two criteria be fulfilled:[18]

A new onset (not lifelong) of unexplained, persistent fatigue unrelated to exertion and not substantially relieved by rest, that causes a significant reduction in previous activity levels.

Four or more of the following symptoms that last six months or longer:

Impaired memory or concentration

Post-exertional malaise, where physical or mental exertions bring on "extreme, prolonged exhaustion and sickness"

Unrefreshing sleep

Muscle pain (myalgia)

Pain in multiple joints (arthralgia)

Headaches of a new kind or greater severity

Sore throat, frequent or recurring

Tender lymph nodes (cervical or axillary)

When symptoms are attributable to other conditions, the diagnosis of CFS is excluded. The CDC specifically refers to several illnesses with symptoms resembling those of CFS: "mononucleosis, Lyme disease, lupus, multiple sclerosis, fibromyalgia, primary sleep disorders, severe obesity and major depressive disorders. Medications can also cause side effects that mimic the symptoms of CFS."[18

Dr David Bell was the first doctor to find low blood volume in some of his CFS patients, and often reported POTS in his patients as well as NMH.

I believe it was either Dr Rowe or Dr Bell that stated that connection between dysautonomia and CFS was similar to that between migraine and CFS. There is an obvious connection but its only part of the picture.

The problem with CFS and the wealth of contradictory research out there on it is that much of it isnt really based on solid science, and when it is it often presents contradictory findings, again highlighting the possibility is has many causes and presentations.

[summer]

I am not fatigued like I need to sleep. I am fatigued like I can't move and my body has to sit/recline and rest. This has always been confusing for me. I am weak and physically tire so easily but nothing to do with sleep.

Does this make sense?

It makes total sense to me, Erika. I also don't feel like sleeping. Infact, I only wish I could fall asleep when I feel like this to pass the time. I just feel weak and like I have to lie around. I have no staminia for activity, but rarely sleep during the day. I also have wondered about this, and at first didn't think of this symptom as "fatigue" because I did not feel sleepy.

Summer