Adrenaline Rushes After Eating

[Machair]

Does anyone get rushes of adrenaline after eating? It doesn’t seem to be related to foods or carbs as it can happen anytime. I eat small meals now but still it can happen. I have noticed if I stand a lot preparing food that it is often likely to happen more after eating. I try not to stand and have taken to preparing meals in advance but sometimes when I have family around it is unavoidable. Anyone else? It is usually about 20 minutes after eating so I am guessing it is blood rushing to the gut. 

[MikeO]

Yes this happens to me. can't say i am having adrenaline rushes but i will start to palpitate. 20 mins sounds about right when it happens. I have been told i have postprandial hypotension and have recorded drops in blood pressure post meal so i am assuming (for me) the increase in hr (palpitations) is the bodies response to the drop in BP.

What helps me is i avoid sugar in my diet and eat a lower carb and bit higher protein meals and avoid overeating (smaller portions).  

[RecipeForDisaster]

Yes, I feel awful after eating even a small amount. It makes me dread eating. Not much helps, other than IV fluids, which make me want to eat.

[Pistol]

@Machair Yup, this happens to me. I believe your theory about blood rushing to the gut is correct, this would be the parasympathetic branch kicking in doing its job. And with dysautonomia ( especially HPOTS ) there can be an abnormal overcompensation of the sympathetic ANS, causing the Rush-feeling from an norepinephrine dump. 

I also experience the stress from standing while prepping and cooking meals. I have to do it in stages or I dont have the energy to eat after cooking. 

[Karen Elaine]

I agree that all of this can 100% be Dysautonomia due to the fluid shifts and adrenaline surges.

But also wanted to point out that many of the exact same symptoms that we normally attribute to POTS, such as palpitations, tachycardia, nausea, flushing or feeling warm, drowsiness, etc. can also be caused by MCAS. The ANS and mast cells affect each other quite a bit. And since some degree of MCAS is commonly seen with POTS, it might be worth noting. 

Personally, many of my post-meal symptoms did not improve at the same rate as the rest of my POTS symptoms, and only improved once I began addressing my MCAS. 

[Macho319]

Oh my gosh I thought I was the only one who felt this! I get crazy anxiety /adrenaline feeling after eating. It usually happens after dinner but it's the worst! 

[Water Lover]

Yes, I experience this sometimes. It's definitely related to meal size, and, much as I wish it weren't, does seem to be carb-related.

But the factor that's bigger than size or carb content is time upright around the meal. I can deal with larger dinners at home with (usually) lesser symptoms because I've often been reclining before the meal, and once I'm done I can go lie on the couch. At home I also sometimes sit at the table in compensatory postures (legs tucked up under me, or on a bad day one leg tucked under me and one leg with my foot on the chair and my knee up above the table!). I've done that instinctively all my life—my parents tried to work on getting me to sit more normally when I was a kid. It was interesting to find out there's a reason I do it.

Dinners out are harder because I've had to sit up driving to/from the restaurant, have to sit properly through the meal (can't get away with weird postures!), and the meal itself takes longer. Work dinners and things like that can get brutal—I become progressively less able to carry on conversation as I go because the pressure in my head is building up and my heart is pounding and I'm just trying to focus on keeping it together until I can leave!

Lunch on days I work in the office (I am in a profession where partial WFH is possible, but I have to do several days in office each week) can be rough for similar reasons: I'm sitting up in a chair or standing for hours before lunch and hours after. That's where the small meals, low carb thing particularly seems to pay off some. It still gets worse, but not as much worse. (I've also started sometimes sitting on the floor around lunchtime—I'm in a space that's private enough that I can get away with that, although I get some odd looks sometimes!)

So if you haven't, I totally recommend lying down after the meal (and perhaps a bit before, if possible). It may help! (I'll note that I am very sensitive to sitting upright in a chair, which I know not everyone is, so YMMV.)

[bumpkin]

6 hours ago, Water Lover said:

Yes, I experience this sometimes. It's definitely related to meal size, and, much as I wish it weren't, does seem to be carb-related.

But the factor that's bigger than size or carb content is time upright around the meal. I can deal with larger dinners at home with (usually) lesser symptoms because I've often been reclining before the meal, and once I'm done I can go lie on the couch. At home I also sometimes sit at the table in compensatory postures (legs tucked up under me, or on a bad day one leg tucked under me and one leg with my foot on the chair and my knee up above the table!). I've done that instinctively all my life—my parents tried to work on getting me to sit more normally when I was a kid. It was interesting to find out there's a reason I do it.

Dinners out are harder because I've had to sit up driving to/from the restaurant, have to sit properly through the meal (can't get away with weird postures!), and the meal itself takes longer. Work dinners and things like that can get brutal—I become progressively less able to carry on conversation as I go because the pressure in my head is building up and my heart is pounding and I'm just trying to focus on keeping it together until I can leave!

Lunch on days I work in the office (I am in a profession where partial WFH is possible, but I have to do several days in office each week) can be rough for similar reasons: I'm sitting up in a chair or standing for hours before lunch and hours after. That's where the small meals, low carb thing particularly seems to pay off some. It still gets worse, but not as much worse. (I've also started sometimes sitting on the floor around lunchtime—I'm in a space that's private enough that I can get away with that, although I get some odd looks sometimes!)

So if you haven't, I totally recommend lying down after the meal (and perhaps a bit before, if possible). It may help! (I'll note that I am very sensitive to sitting upright in a chair, which I know not everyone is, so YMMV.)

It's funny you mention mealtime posture, my own compensating has recently reached the extreme of taking to eating my meals while laying in bed propped up by a couple pillows, a strategy which has not been great for the ol' acid reflux, but feels like it keeps the cognitive symptoms from getting too much worse. 

Carbs are a real challenge, I need them in order to feel alive again for five minutes, but seem to only tolerate them half decently earlier on in the day (but I'll settle for the air hunger over the racing heart), and really can't much handle any normal portion of them during late evening without experiencing the adrenaline surge.

But I've thankfully made it a few weeks without the adrenaline surges now after experiencing them every week for a month, and I mostly credit that to having only smaller meals and eating more frequently, and keeping the carbs to a minimum (and balancing them with some kinda fat and protein if I do have 'em), and absolutely no pasta 💔 But I was practically eating like a diabetic for awhile there and felt so much worse for it, once I added some balanced carbs and sugar back in during the day, things got more manageable.

If I start feeling that I've screwed up and waited too long to snack again, before the crash can hit I'll have a quick spoonful of fruit jelly (the natural kind made with a lil real sugar, not the high fructose corn syrup kind) to bump my sugar back up while hurriedly fixing some real food to munch on. Avoiding high fructose corn syrup is also helping..that stuffs been added to things you'd least expect. And having some kinda light snack before I go to sleep seems to help keep the 3AM nightsweats and 6AM adrenaline surge at bay, usually a stick of beef jerky or a small protein bar is enough to help. 

I've also come to love regular organic chicken broth during the day, for some reason I'm finding that really puts some life back in me. Tried bone broth for awhile but oooh wee, was that stuff an acquired taste... the regular kind may not be super fancy nutrient-wise but it seems like it has plenty enough electrolytes to get the job done. 

I've also been adding 1.5g salt to 16-20oz water to start drinking before meals to try to help get blood volume up, in the hopes of getting ahead of the gut rush after eating. But I know everyones salt needs and tolerance are different, and our appetites aren't always the best, drinking water and eating usually just means more acid reflux.. It's tough to strike a balance with this stuff.

[MikeO]

Oddly enough my after meal palpitations have stopped since i started taking a mealtime fast acting insulin. i can even tolerate consistent 30g of carbs at each meal.

[Machair]

15 hours ago, Water Lover said:

Yes, I experience this sometimes. It's definitely related to meal size, and, much as I wish it weren't, does seem to be carb-related.

But the factor that's bigger than size or carb content is time upright around the meal. I can deal with larger dinners at home with (usually) lesser symptoms because I've often been reclining before the meal, and once I'm done I can go lie on the couch. At home I also sometimes sit at the table in compensatory postures (legs tucked up under me, or on a bad day one leg tucked under me and one leg with my foot on the chair and my knee up above the table!). I've done that instinctively all my life—my parents tried to work on getting me to sit more normally when I was a kid. It was interesting to find out there's a reason I do it.

Dinners out are harder because I've had to sit up driving to/from the restaurant, have to sit properly through the meal (can't get away with weird postures!), and the meal itself takes longer. Work dinners and things like that can get brutal—I become progressively less able to carry on conversation as I go because the pressure in my head is building up and my heart is pounding and I'm just trying to focus on keeping it together until I can leave!

Lunch on days I work in the office (I am in a profession where partial WFH is possible, but I have to do several days in office each week) can be rough for similar reasons: I'm sitting up in a chair or standing for hours before lunch and hours after. That's where the small meals, low carb thing particularly seems to pay off some. It still gets worse, but not as much worse. (I've also started sometimes sitting on the floor around lunchtime—I'm in a space that's private enough that I can get away with that, although I get some odd looks sometimes!)

So if you haven't, I totally recommend lying down after the meal (and perhaps a bit before, if possible). It may help! (I'll note that I am very sensitive to sitting upright in a chair, which I know not everyone is, so YMMV.)

This is exactly the same for me. I am sure that it is the upright posture before during and after meals that is so hard. Breakfast rarely causes me issues as I have been reclining but lunch is challenging, especially if I have been upright all the time as I often am looking after my granddaughter. As for meals out they are so hard especially if they involve a drive and then talking in a hard back chair over a meal! Thank you so much for your reply it means the world.

[Machair]

8 hours ago, bumpkin said:

It's funny you mention mealtime posture, my own compensating has recently reached the extreme of taking to eating my meals while laying in bed propped up by a couple pillows, a strategy which has not been great for the ol' acid reflux, but feels like it keeps the cognitive symptoms from getting too much worse. 

Carbs are a real challenge, I need them in order to feel alive again for five minutes, but seem to only tolerate them half decently earlier on in the day (but I'll settle for the air hunger over the racing heart), and really can't much handle any normal portion of them during late evening without experiencing the adrenaline surge.

But I've thankfully made it a few weeks without the adrenaline surges now after experiencing them every week for a month, and I mostly credit that to having only smaller meals and eating more frequently, and keeping the carbs to a minimum (and balancing them with some kinda fat and protein if I do have 'em), and absolutely no pasta 💔 But I was practically eating like a diabetic for awhile there and felt so much worse for it, once I added some balanced carbs and sugar back in during the day, things got more manageable.

If I start feeling that I've screwed up and waited too long to snack again, before the crash can hit I'll have a quick spoonful of fruit jelly (the natural kind made with a lil real sugar, not the high fructose corn syrup kind) to bump my sugar back up while hurriedly fixing some real food to munch on. Avoiding high fructose corn syrup is also helping..that stuffs been added to things you'd least expect. And having some kinda light snack before I go to sleep seems to help keep the 3AM nightsweats and 6AM adrenaline surge at bay, usually a stick of beef jerky or a small protein bar is enough to help. 

I've also come to love regular organic chicken broth during the day, for some reason I'm finding that really puts some life back in me. Tried bone broth for awhile but oooh wee, was that stuff an acquired taste... the regular kind may not be super fancy nutrient-wise but it seems like it has plenty enough electrolytes to get the job done. 

I've also been adding 1.5g salt to 16-20oz water to start drinking before meals to try to help get blood volume up, in the hopes of getting ahead of the gut rush after eating. But I know everyones salt needs and tolerance are different, and our appetites aren't always the best, drinking water and eating usually just means more acid reflux.. It's tough to strike a balance with this stuff.

 

I am exactly the same. Carbs are very hard if I eat them late. They can cause adrenaline surges at night and prevent sleep. Thank you so much for reply and I hope you continue to stay well with your strategies!

[bumpkin]

On 3/19/2024 at 5:12 AM, MikeO said:

Oddly enough my after meal palpitations have stopped since i started taking a mealtime fast acting insulin. i can even tolerate consistent 30g of carbs at each meal.

I've been thinking about your post for a couple days, and today I found a couple blog articles that talk about dysautonomia and insulin response: 

https://www.carolinafnc.com/post/diet-and-dysautonomia-blood-sugar-regulation

https://www.carolinafnc.com/post/blood-glucose-and-brain-function-it-s-a-two-way-street

Would be nice if they cited their sources in there, but they're basically just threading together concepts we're already somewhat familiar with.. They've got a bunch more interesting articles here and seem to offer more dysautonomia insights than the average doctor is willing to in a blog.

I hadn't given it much thought before your post prompted me to wonder more about it, but I'm gathering that some of us must have a little too much insulin to start with, and some of us don't make enough and need more to balance out.. That's awesome that the fast acting insulin helps you tolerate carbs again, figuring out what works tends to help give us clues into what's going on at a deeper level! Another piece of the puzzle.

[MikeO]

8 hours ago, bumpkin said:

I hadn't given it much thought before your post prompted me to wonder more about it, but I'm gathering that some of us must have a little too much insulin to start with, and some of us don't make enough and need more to balance out..

Thanks for sharing the articles. kinda makes me wonder if folks with Dysautonomia struggle with blood sugars more than one would think.

Here is a article that @Water Loverhad sharded. it is a interesting study that was done with POTS folks hypothesising that worsening of symptoms maybe glucose related. sudy is backed up by tested data.  

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9010371/#:~:text=In Postural Tachycardia Syndrome (POTS,venous return (upper panel).

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1161/HYPERTENSIONAHA.121.17852?download=true 

[bumpkin]

Yeah, I'm starting to suspect that the greater mess of symptoms do revolve around blood sugar..

I found this post on Phoenix Rising talking about glycemic index, ended up putting their theory to the test: 

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/diet-carbs-blood-sugar-energy-from-food.29631/#post-452731

I was feeling like garbage today, and by this evening I decided it was likely due to not having enough carbs the past couple days.. so, not a fan of feeling like the walking dead, and the only thing I had on hand that I thought was a safe enough carb option was a little bag of some chocolate covered pretzels.. I had some chicken broth, seasalt water, and ate a few chicken tenders for dinner and then ate 4 of the little pretzels (½ serving, 14 grams).. oooh boy, two hours later that surge in heart rate lasted for at least half an hour 😳 Haven't had one of those episodes in over a month. 

The glycemic index database I consulted beforehand tried to warn me that they had a high glycemic index and load, but I thought, it's just 4 little chocolate covered pretzels, how problematic could it be? Crazy..seemed like even my blood pressure went up from it if the readings were accurate (the two monitors were close in readings so I think it must've).

Wish I knew why it lasts so long and why it also takes so long for heart rate to fully come back down after the episode is over, it almost always happens right as I'm getting wound down for bed so it shaves hours off my rest 😩

 

[MikeO]

5 hours ago, bumpkin said:

I was feeling like garbage today, and by this evening I decided it was likely due to not having enough carbs the past couple days.. so, not a fan of feeling like the walking dead

Been here. I was to the point of not eating or eating very few carbs and fasting a lot just because food was not always a pleasant experience for me. this IMO is stressful on the body and aggravated some of my symptoms. Haha was to the point it felt like i could hardly get out of my own way.

Like you after eating a (bad and even with good) carby foods my heart rate would increase (along with other symptoms) and would last from 30 minutes to 4-5 hours. it was like clock work.

My Endo gave me the talk that some carbs are needed and to ignore some of the diets that promote getting your energy solely from fats and proteins especially if one has other health issues. He said that i don't necessarily need to hit the recommended 145 carbs a day but would need to find out how many works for me. he suggested around 80 carbs is good. i average around 60-80.

Not sure why insulin has stopped my post meal palpitations outside of keeping my blood sugars in range but i will take what i can get. i definitely have 10 times the energy since starting to use it.

6 hours ago, bumpkin said:

The glycemic index database I consulted beforehand tried to warn me that they had a high glycemic index and load

This is a good resource and works to some extent. i found that barley does not spike my blood sugars much at all. i use it in soups as a substitute for rice.        

 

[bumpkin]

12 hours ago, MikeO said:

Like you after eating a (bad and even with good) carby foods my heart rate would increase (along with other symptoms) and would last from 30 minutes to 4-5 hours. it was like clock work.

Right it's crazy how long it can drag out.. even after I finally went to bed, I wound up poppin awake a couple of times every few hours. Probably needed to throw down a smarter snack but I just wanted to get some sleep after that. 

I really appreciate all your diet pro-tips, I haven't gotten to see an Endo yet myself and idk if they'd ever refer me to one. Completely understand that feeling of getting in your own way, I lost an unsettling amount of weight at the onset of the POTS symptoms months ago and I think half of it was from restricting foods.. But when you don't know what the trigger is it's "everything must go" lol. 

Rice definitely scares me sometimes not knowing how I'll react, used to love it. I'll have to give the barley a try, I think I've only ever had it in beer form 🙃

That's really wild that the insulin is helping with both the palpitations and your energy! I miss having energy lol it's been so long. Insulin resistance has crossed my mind some lately, I relied on sugary energy drinks every day for 7 years, and the POTS stuff came on months ago right after I quit them cold turkey (also following a short trial of nootropics/brain supplements the same week). But it's been so many months of the hypoglycemia struggle, I would think my body would have certainly figured out the way back to homeostasis by now. I've got gut stuff going on though, and of course it's always more complex than we think. 

[MikeO]

13 hours ago, bumpkin said:

I'll have to give the barley a try, I think I've only ever had it in beer form

Haha beer is good  

Lack of energy comes from If you don't have enough insulin, glucose builds up in your bloodstream rather than getting into your cells to provide energy.

My Endo does not feel i am as much insulin resistant but i have a deficient release of insulin when food challenged.

so in my mind is a kinda vicious cycle. get high blood sugars that remain unused in the bloodstream so no energy to do anything and get tired so back onto the recliner napping it off while the pancreas finally catches up then because of the inactivity none of the glucose goes to the muscles because they are already full and ends up in the liver as stored fat then it's time for bed so i never burn the fat. next day rinse and repeat Haha. My world according my Mike.

Yeah be surprised what your body can/will do to maintain homeostasis. sure this is what mine has figured out when my BG drops from 180 to 105 and i am not even the wiser it happened. 

Sorry to hear that you have some GI issues sure it is throwing a log into the middle of the road as you try and sort thru issues. I have been dealing with some of my own GI woes and was put on a PPT med to deal with some inflammation. one thing that helped me before the Gastro Doc working out the issue is i avoided acidic foods like tomatoes, salsa, pastes and anything that has citric acid. made a difference in the short term. I too also did a food reset, well more than once more like years. only took me three years to finally get to the root of some of it.

side note if any of your providers tell you "it's just the way it is and to drink more water and get up slowly" fire them as they probably won't help.  

 

[bumpkin]

13 hours ago, MikeO said:

one thing that helped me before the Gastro Doc working out the issue is i avoided acidic foods like tomatoes, salsa, pastes and anything that has citric acid.

Thank you for that reminder, sorry you're dealing with all that too, it really gets miserable and it's a mess to muddle through without good docs. This was exactly what I needed to hear tonight Mike and it helped me avoid some triggers at dinner so thank you.. the GERD has been terrible lately, and I'm guessing it's a combination of things.. The weight I gained back when I was throwing down extra calories to get ahead of the hyper-metabolism, and a lot of foods I hadn't eaten for years that I reintroduced to my diet in order to have variety (because when it comes to electrolytes, I kept being told "if you eat all the colors of the rainbow then you won't need electrolyte packets"), but I shouldn't have assumed the acid reflux would be a thing of the past, I dealt with it for over a decade and then took for granted it wasn't as much an issue while I was down 20lbs.. Well it crept back up with a vengeance a couple weeks ago, I'd forgotten how severe that throat irritation can get. 

So lots of tomatoes, onions, peppers, salsa, coffee, mint gum and fatty foods later... I'm hoping I can turn this back around soon so I won't need another endoscopy 😬

13 hours ago, MikeO said:

side note if any of your providers tell you "it's just the way it is and to drink more water and get up slowly" fire them as they probably won't help.  

 Duly noted! I've already had one tell me to get up slowly "that's what I tell my elderly patients, so don't hop out of bed and cry orthostatic intolerance" yeah idk what that one's deal was.. are there OI patients out there setting off their symptoms on purpose 😂 Some doctors, man..  Besides, I'm quite a long ways off from elderly, and everyday life frequently calls for us humans to get up quickly, slow is not always an option. I'm not sure how doctors find that an acceptable stipulation for someone to live with, but with advice like that it's probably safe to assume they've never experienced anything like it themselves. 

And I hear you on the vicious cycle, there was one evening the postprandial fatigue hit me so fast that I very nearly nodded off right into my bowl of rice  🤣 

That's gotta be really wild seeing the CGM readings, I can only imagine what it looks like 'behind the scenes'. Would've been neat to have seen exactly how my body was coping with all those energy drinks everyday.. I felt so much better back then than I do now, but I'd hit a wall anyhow, guess it's for the best I gave up the crutch and have to fix what's been broken the whole time. 

So I'll have to start switching it up again lol, finally starting to get used to my body not allowing me to get used to my 'safe foods' from one month to the next.. Maybe I'll be able to get one of the CGMs this summer and keep a better eye on things, cuz I can't seem to intuit what my body's doing from one minute to the next. Before the POTS symptoms I would just get hangry and eat and feel fine again and make it through the day no problem, but with the cerebral hypoperfusion now it's a total crapshoot, can throw everything I've got at it and still feel like the walking dead. 

[MikeO]

10 hours ago, bumpkin said:

That's gotta be really wild seeing the CGM readings, I can only imagine what it looks like 'behind the scenes'.

well here attached saturdays graph so you can see a example. i fasted until dinner and even with the insulin i still spiked 3 hours later. 

[bumpkin]

8 hours ago, MikeO said:

well here attached saturdays graph so you can see a example. i fasted until dinner and even with the insulin i still spiked 3 hours later. 

That's just so onerous, like what more can you even do at that point lol you're already minding your trigger foods, taking your insulin, and it still spikes on you.. Did that one result in an adrenaline surge, or was it an example of the times when you wouldn't have noticed the shift?

[MikeO]

53 minutes ago, bumpkin said:

Did that one result in an adrenaline surge, or was it an example of the times when you wouldn't have noticed the shift?

these i will notice or better said present symptoms. increase in HR (palpitations) and blurry vision are the first heads up that the BG went high.

[bumpkin]

3 hours ago, MikeO said:

these i will notice or better said present symptoms. increase in HR (palpitations) and blurry vision are the first heads up that the BG went high.

I wonder what causes the spike in those circumstances, I can't really wrap my head around that.. When it comes to the dysautonomia, I understand that the low blood volume can cause the hypoglycemia symptoms and make blood sugar stability a struggle. But hyperglycemia despite using insulin? Maybe it's just that I don't know much about diabetes to begin with and there's not enough blood to my brain this week to learn anything new, lol

[MikeO]

6 hours ago, bumpkin said:

But hyperglycemia despite using insulin?

It happens....fast acting insulin peaks at 2 hrs and then tapers off. by the 4th hr it is pretty much done working. I'm sure the late spike is i was slow to digest the food that i ate.

[Sarah Tee]

@MikeO, would they consider giving you an insulin pump, and would that give you more control than the fast-acting insulin?

[MikeO]

54 minutes ago, Sarah Tee said:

@MikeO, would they consider giving you an insulin pump, and would that give you more control than the fast-acting insulin?

My care team did discuss strategies. For now we will tow the line as lows (more so) are just as much a concern as the highs.

So we did talk about bolus techniques and will try to see if i get improvements. The insulin pumps do use the fast acting insulin which is not all that fast acting IMO.

Not sure how predictive the pumps really are when it comes to BG spikes but sure they do work.