HPV Vaccine

[StayAtHomeMom]

The HPV vaccine came up in a discussion with friends because I haven't got that vaccine for my sons. During a little bit of research there is some claims that the vaccine has caused POTS among other things. 

So my question is how many people got POTS after having the vaccine? Personally I never got it. It was too new and I don't trust new vaccines. 

[JimL]

It's a risk question. With highly communicable diseases, vaccines makes sense. In a perfect world, if your son always practices safe sex or doesn't participate, he has nothing to worry about. Things like polio, measles, chicken pox etc are different. They are indescriminant. That said, people claim lots of things, but is it true? I wouldn't soley rely on anecdotal evidence. They can get the shot when they become of age, so you can leave it up to them if you like. 

[jklass44]

@StayAtHomeMom There are many types of HPV so my opinion is it’s better to get vaccinated than to not. That goes for anything! There’s currently a measles outbreak where I live... MEASLES!! In 2019. It’s crazy... 

I really don’t remember if my parents had me get the HPV vaccines, but I’ve been very prone to palmar and plantar warts my entire life - which is indeed caused by HPV - so my guess is not. 

[Tenacity]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5883192/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmid/26425598/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25274229

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmid/27638661/

These are the free PMC articles you can read on PubMed about the subject. I haven't read them yet.

[JimL]

I

6 hours ago, Tenacity said:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5883192/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmid/26425598/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25274229

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmid/27638661/

These are the free PMC articles you can read on PubMed about the subject. I haven't read them yet.

In reading those articles, it's interesting that they try to rule out psychogenic factors with regards to POTS/Autoimmune disorders. Is that from a bias based on the inability to diagnose it or that some people really have psychogenic caused POTS or Autoimmune disorders? It seems to me that it might predispose a doctor to presume it's psychosomatic. 

[StayAtHomeMom]

12 hours ago, JimL said:

It's a risk question. With highly communicable diseases, vaccines makes sense. In a perfect world, if your son always practices safe sex or doesn't participate, he has nothing to worry about. Things like polio, measles, chicken pox etc are different. They are indescriminant. That said, people claim lots of things, but is it true? I wouldn't soley rely on anecdotal evidence. They can get the shot when they become of age, so you can leave it up to them if you like. 

I am not but vaccines have always made me wary. I am fully vaccinated and so are my kids (except HPV and we don't get the flu shot). But I waited until my kids were over a year old before I started their shots. They were never in day care and we're fully vaccinated before they started elementary school. They are homeschooled now. 

I waited because my brother died 3 days after getting his DTP shot when he was 3 months old of SIDS. I know it probably didn't cause it, but there was enough of a question mark there that I waited til I felt the kids immune system could handle it. 

I am personally not an anti-vaxxer and I believe everyone should be vaccinated but the HPV vaccine is relatively new with little evidence that it is really safe. 

During my research last night I found there has been 3 different vaccines used in the US. The latest just started being used in 2016. Most side effects data is about the first 2. 

I thought it was interesting that there was claims it caused POTS so I figured I would post on here and see if anyone had the vaccine and developed it. 

[StayAtHomeMom]

10 hours ago, jklass44 said:

@StayAtHomeMom There are many types of HPV so my opinion is it’s better to get vaccinated than to not. That goes for anything! There’s currently a measles outbreak where I live... MEASLES!! In 2019. It’s crazy... 

I really don’t remember if my parents had me get the HPV vaccines, but I’ve been very prone to palmar and plantar warts my entire life - which is indeed caused by HPV - so my guess is not. 

We currently have the Hep A and whooping cough going around my city. They suspect my oldest son's friend has it. They get the test results back Monday. I agree it is crazy. 

The HPV vaccine only protects from 9(i think is the latest) strains of HPV. There are over 80 stains. To protect from so little, is it worth subjecting my boys' immune system to? I know originally it was for girls, and then they added it to include boys later because boys can transit it. 

[JimL]

1 minute ago, StayAtHomeMom said:

I am not but vaccines have always made me wary. I am fully vaccinated and so are my kids (except HPV and we don't get the flu shot). But I waited until my kids were over a year old before I started their shots. They were never in day care and we're fully vaccinated before they started elementary school. They are homeschooled now. 

I waited because my brother died 3 days after getting his DTP shot when he was 3 months old of SIDS. I know it probably didn't cause it, but there was enough of a question mark there that I waited til I felt the kids immune system could handle it. 

I am personally not an anti-vaxxer and I believe everyone should be vaccinated but the HPV vaccine is relatively new with little evidence that it is really safe. 

During my research last night I found there has been 3 different vaccines used in the US. The latest just started being used in 2016. Most side effects data is about the first 2. 

I thought it was interesting that there was claims it caused POTS so I figured I would post on here and see if anyone had the vaccine and developed it. 

In reading the articles, I had never heard of ASIA. In looking it up, there seems to be some controversy over it. It seems to me that if a doctor can't figure it out, it's in our heads. That said, the incidence of getting POTS from a vaccine is relatively low, but considering behavior affects infection with HPV, it's sort of optional in the sense that HPV requires specific contact as opposed to a contagious disease. I have 5 kids and none of them got the vaccine as of yet. Time will tell. I might be inclined not to get the HPV vaccines, but inform them of the risks and when they become of age they can decide. 

[JimL]

4 minutes ago, StayAtHomeMom said:

We currently have the Hep A and whooping cough going around my city. They suspect my oldest son's friend has it. They get the test results back Monday. I agree it is crazy. 

The HPV vaccine only protects from 9(i think is the latest) strains of HPV. There are over 80 stains. To protect from so little, is it worth subjecting my boys' immune system to? I know originally it was for girls, and then they added it to include boys later because boys can transit it. 

Some boys can be affected by it with throat and rectal cancer and yes they can transmit it. Hep A and whooping cough are different stories. Much easier to get. 

[Clb75]

The CDC has a link to this you can read on their website. I think Dinet’s homepage has a link to it too. It basically says that there were around 20 or so case reports of people getting pots after getting the HPV vaccine. They consider it safe though because out of the millions of people who got the vaccine, only 20 something got it so they don’t think that’s enough to prove a causative link between the two. So the CDC is recommending it. Obviously those people never had pots! I’m with you, I think it’s still too new of a vaccine and needs more long term research. I would hate for my child to be one of the few who got it even if the risk is low. 

[StayAtHomeMom]

22 minutes ago, Clb75 said:

The CDC has a link to this you can read on their website. I think Dinet’s homepage has a link to it too. It basically says that there were around 20 or so case reports of people getting pots after getting the HPV vaccine. They consider it safe though because out of the millions of people who got the vaccine, only 20 something got it so they don’t think that’s enough to prove a causative link between the two. So the CDC is recommending it. Obviously those people never had pots! I’m with you, I think it’s still too new of a vaccine and needs more long term research. I would hate for my child to be one of the few who got it even if the risk is low. 

My 16 year old son is getting his autonomic testing done this coming up week, my specialist believes I am right and he has it already. My 13 year old son isn't showing signs yet but may still. Either way they would be high risk to get it. I worry that even if there was a tiny chance, they would just be unlucky enough for it to happen. 

If I remember right you can get the vaccine until you are in your late 20s. 

[jklass44]

39 minutes ago, JimL said:

Some boys can be affected by it with throat and rectal cancer and yes they can transmit it. Hep A and whooping cough are different stories. Much easier to get. 

HPV is actually very easy to get too, unfortunately. Up to 80% of people will be infected by this virus at one point in their life according to my research. 

I agree, males can transmit it just as easily as females. And I know there’s a hundred things out there that can supposedly give you cancer, so vaccinating against this one will at least knock HPV off that list...

[JimL]

4 hours ago, jklass44 said:

HPV is actually very easy to get too, unfortunately. Up to 80% of people will be infected by this virus at one point in their life according to my research. 

I agree, males can transmit it just as easily as females. And I know there’s a hundred things out there that can supposedly give you cancer, so vaccinating against this one will at least knock HPV off that list...

https://www.cdc.gov/std/hpv/stdfact-hpv.htm

[Echo]

Hi @StayAtHomeMom, I think the problem is not with vaccines but with our bodies. So many people vilify vaccines as "causing" this or that but the vast, vast majority of the population who get vaccines have absolutely no problems with them. Also, it's actually hard to prove that the vaccine caused any particular issue to arise. There is simply no way to tell and people who do this are committing the post hoc fallacy.  Classic correlation/causation issue.

I think if someone starts experiencing issues after a vaccine, it's because their body already has problems. I personally doubt that a healthy person whose body systems all work well will suddenly become incapacitated after a vaccine. For example, when I took the pill I had an extreme reaction to it. Doctors don't believe me but my reaction was so bad and my blood pressure went so low I actually blacked out in my own home. I literally fell to the ground and my mum found me collapsed in the kitchen (and that was only one of the bad symptoms of the pill for me).  For years I was very angry and would think "If only I didn't take this stupid pill, it has caused all my issues etc." But now, after many years, and reading about other people's experiences, I realise that the pill didn't cause my issues. My body already had issues, otherwise it wouldn't have such a hard time dealing with the pill. Does that make sense? 

If you think your children already have health issues then sure, be cautious, but I wouldn't say the vaccine can cause any issues, only make existing ones worse. Having said that, I have been fully vaccinated as a child/adolescent and get the flu shot every year and I have not had any reactions to those vaccines. I am aware of the HPV vaccine controversy but I'm not sure what people are afraid of in this vaccine. Is it the adjuvants? The preservatives? The HPV strains themselves? 

[Pistol]

In my own opinion I believe that many patients with POTS carry the "underlying cause" well before developing symptoms. Therefore it is possible that vaccines are ONE way of triggering the POTS symptoms - we already know that illness, stress, surgery, pregnancy and more can do this. Theoretically it COULD be possible that Vaccines trigger POTS in certain predisposed individuals just by setting the immune system in motion ( auto-immune theory ). There is currently no studies linking any vaccines to the development of POTS that I know of - but there also are no studies proving otherwise. We need to trust our own research and instincts in this. 

[jklass44]

2 hours ago, JimL said:

https://www.cdc.gov/std/hpv/stdfact-hpv.htm

This article is just reiterating what I said. Am I missing something?

[JimL]

2 minutes ago, jklass44 said:

This article is just reiterating what I said. Am I missing something?

You said it's easy to get. Based on the article, there are limited ways to get it that involve specific human behavior. I am not judging at all, just pointing out the difference. HPV isn't airborne nor can it be spread through coughing or sneezing as far as I can tell. It's basically a sexually transmitted disease. 

[jklass44]

17 minutes ago, JimL said:

You said it's easy to get. Based on the article, there are limited ways to get it that involve specific human behavior. I am not judging at all, just pointing out the difference. HPV isn't airborne nor can it be spread through coughing or sneezing as far as I can tell. It's basically a sexually transmitted disease. 

The article states that millions of people and a very high percentage of people contract this virus. That generally means it is easy to get. Yes it’s mainly a sexually transmitted disease, but children can get it through skin to skin contact with someone who has hand warts and (more uncommonly) through fomites. 

I’m just saying its something to be aware of in both children and adults because it is so common. We can’t protect ourselves from everything, but vaccines can help. 

[JimL]

5 minutes ago, jklass44 said:

The article states that millions of people and a very high percentage of people contract this virus. That generally means it is easy to get. Yes it’s mainly a sexually transmitted disease, but children can get it through skin to skin contact with someone who has hand warts and (more uncommonly) through fomites. 

I’m just saying its something to be aware of in both children and adults because it is so common. We can’t protect ourselves from everything, but vaccines can help. 

" but children can get it through skin to skin contact with someone who has hand warts and (more uncommonly) through fomites. "

The article doesn't say that and the HPV that causes warts isn't the same variant that causes cancer. A lot of people get it because...

My only point originally is to weigh the risks and make an informed decision, part if which is how it's transmitted. The vast majority of people don't get reactions from vaccines, but if you do, it sucks. I mean for all I know I got POTS from the flu vaccine I got last fall or even the DPT the year before. Who knows. I do know the two year I didn't get a flu vaccine in the last 5 I got the flu bad. 

I am sure the parent in this case will make the right decision for her kids. 

[jklass44]

7 minutes ago, JimL said:

" but children can get it through skin to skin contact with someone who has hand warts and (more uncommonly) through fomites. "

The article doesn't say that and the HPV that causes warts isn't the same variant that causes cancer. A lot of people get it because...

My only point originally is to weigh the risks and make an informed decision, part if which is how it's transmitted. The vast majority of people don't get reactions from vaccines, but if you do, it sucks. I mean for all I know I got POTS from the flu vaccine I got last fall or even the DPT the year before. Who knows. I do know the two year I didn't get a flu vaccine in the last 5 I got the flu bad. 

I am sure the parent in this case will make the right decision for her kids. 

There are over 100 different strains of HPV...... Some of them cause cancer, some cause genital warts, some cause plantar warts, etc etc etc. They are not ALL transmitted through sex, is what I’m trying to say.

You are right, there are definitely risks with getting a vaccine, but there are also risks if you don’t get a vaccine - risks to yourself and the public. Every single person will make their own decision, but I would hope they take all of that into account first. 

[StayAtHomeMom]

I realize there are benefits to having the vaccine and I hope they choose to get it to be safer. But right now I am choosing to wait til they are older. They have a genetic predisposition to POTS, with my older son already showing signs. Whether it causes it or not I would hate to live with the "what-ifs". I think it would be better to wait til they are older, like I did with their other vaccines (didn't start any of them til they were over a year old). They are homeschooled and pretty sheltered so it will give me time to see if my younger son develops POTS as well. 

My biggest concern is that 1%. My research is showing 1% have a bad reaction. And with their genes and luck I think it is better to wait. If they were girls I may have made a different decision, but being boys I think it will be OK to wait for more data about the safety. The latest vaccine they use has only been in use in the US since 2016. Not enough time to show safety data. And honestly I don't trust our FDA a whole lot. 

Interestingly enough, I am OK with all the other vaccines. I kind of feel like a hypocrite, but this one scares me. And I have learned to trust my gut over the years. Thanks everyone for their responses. It has been interesting seeing people's opinion. 

[dogmom]

I'm late to reply, but I've always wondered about this as I had Dysautonomia symptoms and HPV Vaccine (Gardasil) around the same time. 

I think a lot of the correlation, however, is timing. Dysautonomia is highly prevelant in young teenage females which is also when HPV vaccine is suggested.

[StayAtHomeMom]

3 hours ago, dogmom said:

I'm late to reply, but I've always wondered about this as I had Dysautonomia symptoms and HPV Vaccine (Gardasil) around the same time. 

I think a lot of the correlation, however, is timing. Dysautonomia is highly prevelant in young teenage females which is also when HPV vaccine is suggested.

I am thinking it may be just coincidence too, but some of my research makes me wonder. A significant amount of teenage females pass out directly after having the vaccine. It is the number one reaction. Kind of makes you wonder. 

[dogmom]

On 2/24/2019 at 9:33 PM, StayAtHomeMom said:

I am thinking it may be just coincidence too, but some of my research makes me wonder. A significant amount of teenage females pass out directly after having the vaccine. It is the number one reaction. Kind of makes you wonder. 

Very much so, yes. Unfortunately [if it's true] I don't think there will ever be a way to physically prove it in an individual, only through data over a period of time. Alsmost wish it was the cause, as we haven't identified any underlying disease to explain my own Dysautonomia.

[JimL]

Some day. We've made so much progress in some areas, like gene therapy. They can actually splice in gene modifications now, but yet when it comes to some diseases, they are still a long way off, like ALS, Amyloidosis, certain brain tumors, etc, all death sentences. We've wasted trillions on non-sense.