Cortisol

[handmadebyemy]

My mom saw her endocrinologist today and mentioned that I had POTS and he (shockingly!) actually knew about it and said he has treated POTS patients before and had success with it. He was asking her about my adrenals and seems to think that I may need to take some cortisol. He did recognize this as "out of the box" thinking regarding POTS treatments. I made an appointment to at least hear what he has to say but its not until Sept of next year. Has anyone taken cortisol or been treated for POTS by an endocrinologist? I'd appreciate any advice. I'm not getting my hopes up but I'm going into this with an open mind.

[Ashelton80]

It's interesting that you mention this. I have always been convinced adrenals had something to do with all of this mess since alot of us develop POTS after a stressor or trauma. Add to that all the junk food, sleepless nights and constant lifestyle of toxins, tv, noise, etc and to me it's like a perfect storm for disaster. I read somewhere that we are exposed to more stimulation a day than people 60 years ago were exposed to in a year. I don't know how accurate that is, but there is definitely some truth to that.

I just think there is still so much to learn about the endocrine system. It is so complex and many dr's only deal with one specific area of the body refusing to connect the dots at how our systems work in a harmonious balance to achieve health. All that to say, I have had my cortisol levels checked on multiple occassions along with an acth stim test. These all came back perfectly normal. So that's where you get into the "outside the box" thinking. My husband is a chiropractor and when he mentions my symptoms to any of the dr's and scientists at the conference's they immediately say it sounds adrenal related. I did try at one point adrenal glandulars and they made things much worse for me. Although I have never tried cortef (cortisol hormone). There is a girl on here I know that takes hydrocortisone that has POTS and it did not cure her, but again that doesn't mean it won't help you.

Keep us updated on if you decide to try it. Too bad that dr. can't see you sooner than next year...that's just craziness!!

[issie]

That same girl, that is now on the cortisol. Strongly feels that it shouldn't be taken unless you have Addison's. Read the latest post about Cortisol, Aldesterone, Renin. You can do a search, but it's only been about a week since it was posted. There is a long PM about the subject. In my case, I did try it a couple of times because my saliva test came back with me being in near Adrenal failure. I do not feel like it was helpful. When they did the regular blood test for my adrenals, it came back okay. If anything, I think in the long run the cortisol made me more tired. I gained a good bit of weight on it too. But, if you do show up that you have Addison's it will be a life saver.

But, when I have surgery - I still have them give it to me. Because, of the weak adrenals when you are under that kind of stress it is good to support them under trauma. I'm just not sure of daily taking it when you aren't sure if it is truly necessary.

[futurehope]

Handmadebyemy,

Is the endocrinologist you are discussing in Maryland? Because my endocrinologist (or I should say, one of endocrinologists), sounds like your mother's doctor.

Even though my adrenals showed a less then optimal response to stress, taking supplemental cortisol (in a small amount) did not help me. As a matter of fact, I prefer not to suppress my adrenals with external forms of the hormone in case it would have a suppressing affect on my own adrenal output. I tested okay on the cosyntropin stimulation test.

[Birdlady]

I'm the person the other posters are talking about! =) I wish I could say that hydrocortisone was a miracle POTS drug for me, but it wasn't! I know some people with Addison's who were first diagnosed with POTS via a tilt table test and now that they are treated for Addison's, their POTS is completely gone. So I think it is possible, but don't get your hopes up. Just remember that cortisol replacement is for life if you have a true adrenal problem. I've been trying to wean off the hydrocortisone and a lot of old symptoms started showing up again (nausea, extreme thirst, diluted urine, getting up to pee at night, darkening of the skin around my eyes and joints, hot flashes, night sweats and a whole slew of other weird problems), so I have decided that I really do need this and need to get over my steroid guilt. My adrenals are likely suppressed as the result of the medicine, but they also weren't doing enough without the meds either. As of yesterday, I am back on my regular dose and have to accept that HC did not fix POTS, but it has helped me in other areas. At diagnosis I had mildly elevated ACTH levels which points to a primary adrenal problem. I also had some signs of late onset congenital adrenal hyperplasia too with mildly elevated 17 OH progesterone.

Most people I see on the "natural hormone" adrenal forums, do not have elevated ACTH and the problem is not with "weak adrenals", but rather a dysfunction of the secretion of ACTH or CRH in the pituitary or hypothalamus. During a stim test, these people would more than double and look very normal because once they are given external ACTH their adrenals start producing tons of cortisol. People with results like this and with no trauma to the pituitary gland itself, should look into underlying causes before immediately trying HC (latent infections is the first thing I'd check for).

This doctor is considered one of the best for adrenal disorders. http://www.goodhormonehealth.com/ If you are the researching type or like to read about problems in depth, then check out this PDF. I don't agree with everything in it, but it's a good mainstream document that has everything you would ever want to know and more on the adrenals and how to diagnose and treat too.

[handmadebyemy]

No, this doctor isn't in Maryland, he is in Connecticut. From the comments I've gotten so far and the limited research I've done, I haven't seen any positive responses about Cortisol. I do feel like I still may want to hear the doc out to see what he has to say and then take it or leave it from there. It feels difficult to make rational decisions sometimes when we are all so anxious to feel better!

[maggie]

My cortisol levels were very high when I first received my dx. One of my doctors work with herbals and put me on a raw adrenal concentrate, called Ora-Afren-80. It has helped me so much. Since I have a liver enzyme problem I can't take many meds, so this herbal helps slow down my adreenal. I take one a day and have for the last five years. I'm now just going to get my cortisol levels checked again and then we'll decided if I should keep taking it or start lowering how much I take.

Maggie

[Ashelton80]

My cortisol levels were very high when I first received my dx. One of my doctors work with herbals and put me on a raw adrenal concentrate, called Ora-Afren-80. It has helped me so much. Since I have a liver enzyme problem I can't take many meds, so this herbal helps slow down my adreenal. I take one a day and have for the last five years. I'm now just going to get my cortisol levels checked again and then we'll decided if I should keep taking it or start lowering how much I take.

Maggie

Maggie,

Where do you get this? I also had elevated cortisol levels right before we figured out I had POTS. The problem is most dr's want to give me something to rev my adrenals up to give me energy. I have tried that and it was miserable and made me much worse. When you say it "helped" you what exactly has it done for you? Thanks for any input.

Ashley

[issie]

My cortisol levels were very high when I first received my dx. One of my doctors work with herbals and put me on a raw adrenal concentrate, called Ora-Afren-80. It has helped me so much. Since I have a liver enzyme problem I can't take many meds, so this herbal helps slow down my adreenal. I take one a day and have for the last five years. I'm now just going to get my cortisol levels checked again and then we'll decided if I should keep taking it or start lowering how much I take.

Maggie

I looked this up on line - It's Ora-Adren-80. It can be purchased on-line. It is an adrenal gladular. Did this also help your POTS?

Maggie, tell me about your liver dysfunction. I too have a problem with my liver and the way it breaks down hormones at the P450 pathway. What all are you using?

[sue1234]

I'm curious. If you have high cortisol, that would be from a medical condition, from what I understand. Possibly a tumor on the adrenal gland or a tumor on the pituitary gland. Did y'all go down the investigative path on that? I know that people on the Cushing's board get their high cortisol levels via a few tests and then their doctors start all the imaging to find the source.

[Ashelton80]

I'm curious. If you have high cortisol, that would be from a medical condition, from what I understand. Possibly a tumor on the adrenal gland or a tumor on the pituitary gland. Did y'all go down the investigative path on that? I know that people on the Cushing's board get their high cortisol levels via a few tests and then their doctors start all the imaging to find the source.

In my case my morning levels were 25 which is higher than normal, but if you have a medical condition they are supposedly really really elevated. I did have a CT scan of my adrenals to rule all of that out and everything came back "normal". Supposedly, just from being so sick and stressed with POTS was causing my cortisol levels to be elevated. I was also having major adrenaline surges at the time.

[Birdlady]

Total cortisol in blood may not be that reliable. It's better to figure out your free cortisol levels because that's what is actually available for use. Different medications can cause your total cortisol to be artificially elevated too. So In my opinion just checking total cortisol in blood doesn't tell you much of what's going on. Get that paired with ACTH and a free cortisol to get more useful information. My total cortisol was high yet my saliva results were terrible with an elevated ACTH.

I also think the needle jab from the blood draw can cause a spike in the cortisol reading too. Any time I had my cortisol checked, I was always really stressed out by the incompetent phlebotomists. haha

[maggie]

Ashley: I get this herbal from my a doctor I see. It slows down my adrenaline surges throughout the day. I can't take any ssri's because of my liver so it works like that, as a calming solution. So when I exercise, get stressed, or excited it helps my adrenaline gland slow down.

Issie:I do believe it has helped me with my pots because of the calming effect it has. When I have adrealine surges they aren't as intense when I use this herbal. When I first was tested my cortisol levels were at 23 the last time I got tested they were down to 18. Now I'm having them tested again to see where my levels are at. In regards to my liver problem: my CYP2D6 liver enzyme is not able to metabolize anything that goes through it. Therefore any med that goes through that enzyme is stronger and lasts longer in my system then it should. Any med going through that enzyme makes me very ill and I get horrible side effects from my liver not being able to metablize it. This has nothing to do with pots, it's considered a birth defect that I was born with.

Dana: I did discuss this issue blood draw verses saliva tests and his answer to this was, that if my levels were so off then he would do the saliva test, but at this point their off but not to the point where it would cause them to look for a tumor. I don't get stressed out at having my blood test done with this doctor. I have extremely hard veins to hit and whenever I go to his office the girls get's it done the first time without fail. I won't go to a questlab or labcor to get bloodwork done because they can never get my vein. My doctor's view is the same as what Ashely has stated in her post. He believes that pots is putting stress on my adrealine gland to raise my cortisol levels.

Maggie

[issie]

Total cortisol in blood may not be that reliable. It's better to figure out your free cortisol levels because that's what is actually available for use. Different medications can cause your total cortisol to be artificially elevated too. So In my opinion just checking total cortisol in blood doesn't tell you much of what's going on. Get that paired with ACTH and a free cortisol to get more useful information. My total cortisol was high yet my saliva results were terrible with an elevated ACTH.

I also think the needle jab from the blood draw can cause a spike in the cortisol reading too. Any time I had my cortisol checked, I was always really stressed out by the incompetent phlebotomists. haha

So, Dana, if your cortisol was high. Why did they put you on cortisol? To suppress the high cortisol by making your body stop producing it? Not sure how this works.

[Birdlady]

Total cortisol in blood may not be that reliable. It's better to figure out your free cortisol levels because that's what is actually available for use. Different medications can cause your total cortisol to be artificially elevated too. So In my opinion just checking total cortisol in blood doesn't tell you much of what's going on. Get that paired with ACTH and a free cortisol to get more useful information. My total cortisol was high yet my saliva results were terrible with an elevated ACTH.

I also think the needle jab from the blood draw can cause a spike in the cortisol reading too. Any time I had my cortisol checked, I was always really stressed out by the incompetent phlebotomists. haha

So, Dana, if your cortisol was high. Why did they put you on cortisol? To suppress the high cortisol by making your body stop producing it? Not sure how this works.

My cortisol was not high though. That's my point. Even if total cortisol is high, you can still have low free cortisol. Total cortisol measures both free and bound cortisol. Bound cortisol cannot be used. Lots of common medications can elevate total cortisol in blood, but endos don't discuss this or even consider it. Metformin and statin drugs are two that I know of off the top of my head.

Maggie I'm not sure the product you are on is really doing what you think. It is bovine adrenal glands, which contains both cortisol and catecholamines. How long after taking the pill did you get your blood levels drawn? It's impossible to measure cortisol levels in blood once you start supplementing, so that's why it's really important to make sure you have a full accurate diagnosis. Adrenaline surges does not necessarily mean you have high cortisol. I've debated this before on here, but I don't think the adrenaline surges are coming from the adrenals in POTsy. I think it's the faulty autonomic system inappropriately triggering catecholamine release. There's no way to really prove that unless some of us want to remove our adrenal glands for the sake of science.

Only quest diagnostics measures free cortisol in blood and it's not a common test. I probably should have tested CBG (cortisol binding globulin) to see if that was elevated and binding up all of my free cortisol. High CBG Addison's disease has been recognized now. This is a great link that explains what I'm trying to explain. http://www.addisons-network.co.uk/high_cbg_ad.html

As a side note, high levels of estrogen can elevate CBG too.

Hopefully this helped and didn't make it more confusing..haha

[maggie]

Dana,

I had my cortisol testing before I was ever on any supplements and the levels were high. As to saying I'm not getting the actual relief I'm getting only think I'm getting. Sorry but now you starting to sound like some of the doctors who told me nothing was wrong with me while my heart rate was racing. We would all agree here that what works for one person does not work for another. I know this supplement is helping me.

Maggie

[issie]

Total cortisol in blood may not be that reliable. It's better to figure out your free cortisol levels because that's what is actually available for use. Different medications can cause your total cortisol to be artificially elevated too. So In my opinion just checking total cortisol in blood doesn't tell you much of what's going on. Get that paired with ACTH and a free cortisol to get more useful information. My total cortisol was high yet my saliva results were terrible with an elevated ACTH.

Even if total cortisol is high, you can still have low free cortisol. Total cortisol measures both free and bound cortisol. Bound cortisol cannot be used. Lots of common medications can elevate total cortisol in blood, but endos don't discuss this or even consider it. Metformin and statin drugs are two that I know of off the top of my head.

Adrenaline surges does not necessarily mean you have high cortisol. I've debated this before on here, but I don't think the adrenaline surges are coming from the adrenals in POTsy. I think it's the faulty autonomic system inappropriately triggering catecholamine release.

high levels of estrogen can elevate CBG too.

I appreciate your input Dana. It is hard to understand endocronology and how our bodies work in this area - because it is so technical and can be influenced by so many different systems - hormones, stress, meds etc.

I know that you feel that some other things could be triggering an adrenal surge - not the adrenals causing the surge. It could be other factors activating these surges of noriephi. or ephi. giving that "fight or flight" feeling. It could even be activated by too much of the sex hormones - if I'm understanding you correctly. I know that certain eposidoes of hyper POTS can be stimulated by hormones. (I've posted on this before.) I have no doubts that these adrenal surges too can be influenced by these type things also. I know there is a strong relationship between the thyroid and the adrenals. Usually, when there is some sort of dysfunction in one - there will be in the other too.

I think it is very wise to caution people to continue to look at under lying issues that could possibly be there before putting the "bandaid" of additional hormonal support - until one is sure that everything else has been ruled out as possibilities. If this "bandaid" is put on too fast - it will mask possible other issues - before they can be discovered. BUT, finding a doctor with the knowledge to look for these things and to also devote enough time to us to look for these things - is very hard. We're not talking about a 15 minute office visit. This could take a long, drawn out time frame. Doctors and patients want the easy immediate "fix". I think that's why allot of the time - we get tired of trying to get to the bottom of things and opt for the "bandaid". It may help us and seem to give us relief for a time. But, there still may be some under lying issues that need to be uncovered for complete relief. Some of us are researchers and insist on knowing why. Others are content with the expertise of their doctors knowledge and leave it up to them to find the answers. Either way - we are all in the same predicament - feeling miserable and hoping for a cure.

Keep the info coming Dana. I love that you make me think!!!!!

Issie

[Birdlady]

Dana,

I had my cortisol testing before I was ever on any supplements and the levels were high. As to saying I'm not getting the actual relief I'm getting only think I'm getting. Sorry but now you starting to sound like some of the doctors who told me nothing was wrong with me while my heart rate was racing. We would all agree here that what works for one person does not work for another. I know this supplement is helping me.

Maggie

I think you took my comment the wrong way. I have a major problem with that on forums, so I'm getting used to having to explain myself LOL. I understand that your cortisol levels before were "high". I'm saying that the test you had done may not have been reliable. Please read my explanation in the other post on why this is possible. My first cortisol level was a 26! yet my free cortisol was Addison's level. The test you had done cannot confirm you are in fact high. That's all I'm trying to say. I'm not implying that the symptoms aren't real or that the supplement isn't helping you. Saliva cortisol results are more reliable when it comes to seeing your free cortisol levels and the cortisol rhythm.

Another reason why I don't think your cortisol is high (despite the high first reading) is that the adrenal cortex supplement is in fact helping you. If you had true high cortisol taking this product would make you feel even worse and give you even higher cortisol levels. This product while it is a natural source (from bovine) it is supplementing both cortisol and catecholamines. I'm sure you would agree that if a person had high thyroid levels, you wouldn't give them thyroid hormone supplement right? So I don't quite understand why your doctor who believes you have high cortisol would give you cortisol. I hope I'm explaining myself properly. There are other adrenal supplements out there that lower cortisol which contain products like Phosphatidyl serine and zinc. The product you are taking is for someone with low cortisol.

I'm thrilled that you are getting help from the adrenal cortex supplement! For some people that's all they need and they feel a lot better on it.

Doctors and patients want the easy immediate "fix". I think that's why allot of the time - we get tired of trying to get to the bottom of things and opt for the "bandaid". It may help us and seem to give us relief for a time. But, there still may be some under lying issues that need to be uncovered for complete relief.

I take bandaids sometimes too. On really bad days, I'll take a beta blocker to make me feel better temporarily. Nothing is wrong with that.

The problem I have with using cortisol or hydrocortisone as a bandaid is that it does not come without potentially fatal risks. You have "natural" doctors prescribing hydrocortisone with no emergency injection kits, no extra meds for stress dosing and don't even take the time to explain what to look out for if one begin to go into adrenal crisis. A person taking 20+mg of HC with "adrenal fatigue" has the same exact risks as an Addisonian. When you take HC, you begin to shut down your own body's production and have to be very very in tune with how you feel especially during times of stress.

If you were unconscious even in a minor car accident without a medical alert bracelet, you could die while on HC. You better pray you have a knowledgeable EMT or ER doctor who has seen an adrenal crisis before. Taking hydrocortisone is not like taking a beta blocker. There is a huge learning curve and potential for serious injury. You have to be very knowledgeable about your condition and how to treat it. A lot of Addison's patients carry around letters from their doctors explaining their condition and what needs to be done. An adrenal crisis can be life threatening if not immediately recognized and it can happen to someone with simple "adrenal fatigue" while on HC. If a doctor can't take the time to explain all of this to their adrenal patients, then they shouldn't be diagnosing or treating them.

[Ashelton80]

Ashley: I get this herbal from my a doctor I see. It slows down my adrenaline surges throughout the day. I can't take any ssri's because of my liver so it works like that, as a calming solution. So when I exercise, get stressed, or excited it helps my adrenaline gland slow down.

Issie:I do believe it has helped me with my pots because of the calming effect it has. When I have adrealine surges they aren't as intense when I use this herbal. When I first was tested my cortisol levels were at 23 the last time I got tested they were down to 18. Now I'm having them tested again to see where my levels are at. In regards to my liver problem: my CYP2D6 liver enzyme is not able to metabolize anything that goes through it. Therefore any med that goes through that enzyme is stronger and lasts longer in my system then it should. Any med going through that enzyme makes me very ill and I get horrible side effects from my liver not being able to metablize it. This has nothing to do with pots, it's considered a birth defect that I was born with.

Dana: I did discuss this issue blood draw verses saliva tests and his answer to this was, that if my levels were so off then he would do the saliva test, but at this point their off but not to the point where it would cause them to look for a tumor. I don't get stressed out at having my blood test done with this doctor. I have extremely hard veins to hit and whenever I go to his office the girls get's it done the first time without fail. I won't go to a questlab or labcor to get bloodwork done because they can never get my vein. My doctor's view is the same as what Ashely has stated in her post. He believes that pots is putting stress on my adrealine gland to raise my cortisol levels.

Maggie

Well I guess that goes to show you we are all different. The adrenal glandulars and the ssri's both actually caused adrenaline surges and made me much much worse. Oh my the 2 weeks I was on the glandulars I didn't eat, sleep, etc. Felt like I was on speed and then once I got off I completely crashed and couldn't get out of bed. It was horrible. Then the 2 days I was on zoloft was just as bad or maybe a little worse because add nausea to the list, but I learned my lesson and I don't put up with anything that makes me feel worse. The whole oh it will get better just give it time doesn't seem to apply to me. My body let's me know if it's not happy very quickly. haha At least it's helping you though. I haven't found much that does me. I just pulled myself off of a beta blocker after a week because it was bringing my heartrate down, but made me feel horrible!

[sue1234]

Cortisol is something I look at seriously--but won't take unless absolutely necessary, determined by an endocrinologist and his testing. This is my opinion. I have the 15-year history of going to natural doctors and have taken many saliva cortisol tests. OF COURSE, all of them show poor me with low cortisol. If I had the money, I would have loved to have my normal family members tested just to see if they came back low or normal. If you go to any "adrenal fatigue" forum, 99% of the people had low saliva cortisol. This is what ultimately made me NOT take cortisol for "adrenal fatigue", as I can't see sooooo many people being in the "ad. fatigue" category, taking a potent hormone that is to be taken very seriously. My 24-hour urines were normal, my stimulation test was normal, and I had a one-time high morning cortisol. I thought long and hard about the conventional tests vs. the "natural" tests, and decided I was not deficient in cortisol, so would not take it. Until the medical community comes up with research-study-based trials that identify a "adrenal fatigue" category, if it even exists, I will decline cortisol from the "natural" community.

To test cortisol, a 24-hour urine is the best starting test(actually, a few of them). That way you exclude a one-time high from bad lab tech blood draws . If the urines are high, then they would do a dexamethasone suppression test to see where the excess cortisol is coming from-the adrenal or pituitary.

[Ashelton80]

Cortisol is something I look at seriously--but won't take unless absolutely necessary, determined by an endocrinologist and his testing. This is my opinion. I have the 15-year history of going to natural doctors and have taken many saliva cortisol tests. OF COURSE, all of them show poor me with low cortisol. If I had the money, I would have loved to have my normal family members tested just to see if they came back low or normal. If you go to any "adrenal fatigue" forum, 99% of the people had low saliva cortisol. This is what ultimately made me NOT take cortisol for "adrenal fatigue", as I can't see sooooo many people being in the "ad. fatigue" category, taking a potent hormone that is to be taken very seriously. My 24-hour urines were normal, my stimulation test was normal, and I had a one-time high morning cortisol. I thought long and hard about the conventional tests vs. the "natural" tests, and decided I was not deficient in cortisol, so would not take it. Until the medical community comes up with research-study-based trials that identify a "adrenal fatigue" category, if it even exists, I will decline cortisol from the "natural" community.

To test cortisol, a 24-hour urine is the best starting test(actually, a few of them). That way you exclude a one-time high from bad lab tech blood draws . If the urines are high, then they would do a dexamethasone suppression test to see where the excess cortisol is coming from-the adrenal or pituitary.

I have thought about doing the same thing. Having my perfectly healthy husband do the 24 hr saliva cortisol just to see what is says. I am always suspicious! I've gotten to where i don't trust anyone and don't think anybody really knows what they are doing. ugh One of the reasons I was suspicious is at the end of my test they needed me to fill out a survey basically giving them all of my symptoms. Why would they need this? If the test is accurate that's all they should need. If I decide to do it again I won't be filling out the survey. Of course as with everyone else all my levels of hormones came back extremely depressed including sex hormones. Thing is all of my blood tests and stim tests are normal and my montly cycles and spot on every month. I just don't get it! But yes I would think starting something serious like hydrocortisone should be used only if it was absolutely indicated and not just "suspicious" of adrenal fatigue.

[sue1234]

Ashelton--Oh yes! I forgot the symptoms survey! I was also very suspicious of that. I know the last time I had a salivary test I purposely did not fill out that section. I feel like they are just going to give "results" based on symptoms.

I do believe in holistic medicine to a point. BUT, when they "offer" things like tests that diagnose a health condition that is not recognized yet, I feel like they are taking people for their money. They know we feel bad, we are desperate for a diagnosis and a cure. Like I said, some things work for some symptoms. Yes, you brought up bioidentical hormones. That started years ago, when all the sudden, everyone in their 40s was progesterone deficient and needed to be on progesterone cream. I have had that also thrown at me from the "natural" doctors. In fact, I haven't had one say, "Oh, your xxxx levels are just fine, so we won't sell you a supplement for that"! I would buy all this stuff, feel awful, and quit taking it. I've spent too much money on this stuff!

I am in no means bashing cortisol for Addison's, which is necessary. I know some of you have Addison's and are on cortisol-thank goodness!

I feel that holistic medicine is taking advantage of our desperation to feel better, and at the same time, feel conventional medicine is not digging deep enough to figure out what is going on with us.

And, while I don't really think cortisol is our answer, I DO believe aldosterone could underlie some of our POTS. That big discussion a week or so ago addressed that, and we are actually finding quite a few of us with low aldosterone!

[issie]

You have to remember that even "natural" medicine is a refined, condensed un-natural form of supplementation, that your liver has to break down and your body assimilate. But, that being said, it isn't synthetic and man made. I think if we digested our foods better and ate healthier - we might all feel better. I'm starting to think allot of the issues are with the gut ecology. I've recently gotten some HCI with pepsin, in addition to some plant enzymes. This helps to increase the stomach acid and aids in protein digestion. Since allot of some of our issues could be related to amino acid metabolism. It seems to me that protein digestion and other types of food metabolized would possibly correct deficiencies that could contribute to issues of things like allergies, depression, gut mobility, muscle spasms, thyroid and adrenal function. I will always lean towards Eastern medicine over Western medicine - because it at least tries to replace things that could be deficient in our bodies at the underlying cellular level. Whereas, Western medicine is more like helping the problem, not fixing the problem.

I too, have spent thousands of dollars on natural supplements - that have not helped. But, at least I've ruled out certain issues. Now, my thinking is it may be that we don't need all these supplements but - we do need to get our bodies to start assimilating what we eat and maybe digestion enzymes are what could do this for us. I know in some parts of the world (Germany) enzymes are used for pain relief and that is catching on here in the states too. So, I'll be the guinea pig. I'll let you know if it makes a difference.

[issie]

Maggie,

I left you a PM on liver function and you haven't read it yet.

Issie

[sue1234]

I posted back in May about my bloating and stomach issues. I talked about how I had just started digestive enzymes that also had betaine HCL in it. I thought it helped me, but about 5-6 weeks into it, my bloating returned. Besides the respite from bloating, I had no other changes--no increase in energy, no better sleep, etc.

I don't know if OTC digestive enzymes just don't cut it or what. I agree, Issie, that digestion is key to attaining better health, and that we probably are so lacking because of our intestinal problems. I still think that the bacterial overgrowth that I had/have(pretty sure) is what hinders my digestion. It causes malabsorption, especially of the fat soluble vitamins, A, D, E & K. I am on my second week of vit. D replacement after a few years of documented lows. A few years ago I could NOT tolerate vit. D. Right now, you would think I was taking a placebo!!! I have no effects from it. I was totally waiting for the ill-effects I had previously while trying to take it, but none. So all that have had ill effects in the past, maybe give it another try at some point.

I do know that when we are not in the process of needing to digest food, the enzymes are rerouted to fight inflammation. That is probably where Europe uses the enzymes for pain.

I am working right now with a new gi doctor that studied at the CC. I am thrilled, as I haven't had a gi doctor that wants to "work" with me on my severe bloating. So far, they do a test then just say they'll see you in 3 months. I can't breathe when it is at its worst!!! Once I was sitting in the waiting room and feeling like I was going to pass out because of the stomach-pressure-up-in-the-chest-and-head thing, so asked to go lie down(that helps, but can't spend my life lying down). By the time the NP came in the room, she asked something and ultimately said she was glad I was doing better! I was thinking, "What???". I can't sit up with the bloating and she thinks I am well???

So, Issie, after my long rant, I really agree with you on us needing to get our gi system working in top condition. My goal is to get the motility corrected and then get the bacteria corrected. Then, I think things will slowly improve as the nutrition is being broke down and transported to where it needs to go. I could go on and on, but I've talked too much!!

That's what I have faced gi-wise for 10 years. This new CC doctor said it won't be easy, but he'll work with me to find some answers and help with the symptoms. I like his attitude. I wish he had brought a cardiac friend from the CC along with him!!