Overstimulation and our autonomic nervous system

[DizzyGirls]

I'm revisiting a subject that has plagued my daughters for several years and it is the subject of overstimulation.  I was reminded, yet again, of this after my youngest went to a church celebration after our morning service was over.  We have a fellowship hall that has great acoustics, I guess you would say, but all the sounds of people talking and the movement of the people all about was making her vertigo worse and basically made her brain go to mush.  She couldn't carry on a conversation, make decisions, etc.  I wasn't able to go, so she went with my aunt who is very attentive to her conditions.  I had texted my daughter to ask if she was ready for me to come pick her up.  Yes, she was ready.  It was fun until it all got to be too much.  This is not a panic or anxiety attack.  No, this is different.  It can produce anxiety if it goes on too long and they don't remove themselves from the situation.  Crowded cities are bad, too.  Say, Union Square in San Francisco.  Yikes!!   They have a real problem with sounds.  The bass of the music these days just makes their heads start spinning.  Visual movement is bad, too.  Vibrations.  Say, an electric toothbrush.  Out of the question.  Sounds that make the sounds waves reverberate.  They can feel sound waves like crazy.  They take a lot of meds to keep their systems calm.  Calm also means sedating, though.  But, why is it some people with Dysautonomia have this hypersensitivity to their senses?  Sight, sound, touch, sometimes smell.  Is it too much sympathetic, not enough parasympathetic or the other way around?  Any thoughts???

[p8d]

I don't have any answers but suffer badly from it myself.  It's partly why I am housebound.  Clonidine helps a bit but not much.  I see my neurologist Thursday and asking about is one of my top questions.  I'll let you know what she tells me.  I have read that occupational therapy akin to what is done for people on the autistic spectrum can help.  I intend to request on OT consult.

[DizzyGirls]

Hi p8d!  Looking forward to what your neuro has to say.  It's a strange thing, isn't it?! 

[BuffRockChick]

I am wondering if she has another condition which amplifies her sensory sensitivity.  High intelligence often comes with a side of sensory discomfort.  ADHD can cause the same because of inability to tune out extraneous noise.  Anxiety and other psychiatric conditions can cause hypervigilance and the resulting fatigue.  

However, "mental arithmetic" is used as a stress test for blood pressure in research.  I've played around with this and have noticed that overlapping noise (like two people talking, two difference music sources) raises my blood pressure significantly -- but, *only* if I'm trying to mentally sort out the streams of noise.  

I have also noticed that when I'm experiencing sensory discomfort, I'm almost always also experiencing physical changes at the same time like elevated heart rate or blood pressure.  I believe that dysautonomia causes sensory discomfort - in addition to sensory discomfort triggering dysautonomia.

I have been on methylphenidate for ADHD and did not struggle with sensory discomfort while I was on it.  I was not aware of my tachycardia/POTS at the time, but I remember I spent most of every day standing up.  There was a study of refractive POTS patients on methylphenidate - 77% of patients improved on methylphenidate.  If she's not responding well to other POTS treatment (i.e., is refractive) perhaps it's worth asking her doctor if it's an appropriate medication for her.

[DizzyGirls]

Hi BuffRockChick - You bring up a good point.  I'll have to look into that.  She is very intelligent.  We homeschooled due to their EDS and also what we now know as dysautonomia.  She always did several of her subjects at two grade levels above what she should have been.  That included all of her sciences.  She was calculating chemical equations in the 9th grade.  That being said, though, you couldn't ask her to do them quickly.  Flashcards, never.  Her brain does not respond that quickly.  She would know them, but would take some time to get the answer to pop into her head and out her mouth.  Thanks for the thought!  I'm in the process of narrowing down some of her difficulties while we are waiting for my other daughter's surgery date at the end of July. 

[BuffRockChick]

Intelligence and processing speed are different things.  My son is somewhere between "extremely gifted" and "profoundly gifted" and also has SLOW processing speed.   Just takes him a long time to think a thought.  Timed tests and "fluency" in fact recall are not his strengths!  LOL!  If you're interested in reading more, google "overexcitabilites".  I find the label distasteful as it is not evidence-based, taken out of context, and has a morally elitist connotation.  It also is used to de-legimatize ADHD in highly intelligent children, which is just horrible for the kids to suffer through it.  Beyond those caveats, you will be able to see what patterns are typical in children who are similarly advanced as your daughter.  Be aware that the "overexcitability" trait is also called Openness to Experience which IS evidence-based, accepted in the psychology community.  OE (overexcitability/openness to experience) occurs at a rate of about 30% in the general public and about 50% in people who are highly intelligent.
 

[bombsh3ll]

I've been arguing my case with my family for years now that the more intelligent you are, the more sensitive to noise and light (sunglasses and earplugs are my best friends). I have always been this way even before dysautonomia!

[p8d]

Hi Dizzygirls.  I saw the neurologist yesterday (am paying for it today) and she said, yes, it's partly sympathetic overdrive and that an alpha blocker can help somewhat.  It sounded like nobody knows for certain what might help but she suggested OT.  I'm already on methyldopa. That's if either of us can find one who deals with autism and is my network.  I'm waiting to hear back from her. I did some vestibular PT last year that helped somewhat but didn't allow me to leave the house much.

 

I'm quite bemused by the discussion of this and intelligence.  I used to be reasonably intelligent (PhD but that's mostly about perseverance) but now can't remember/understand anything much more difficult than fluff and that's on a good day!  Another thing taken away, c'est la vie.  It's a very interesting thread.   

[WinterSown]

I totally get this as I have the same problem. Intense vibrations and visual motion can set me off. Last year, before I was diagnosed, I had--what we assumed then--was a panic attack at the Columbus Zoo. I was already being treated for vertigo and take low-dose valium when I need it. It works great for taking the bite out of stress too. Anyway, this panic attack led me to meeting my current neurologist who has me on 'Muse it or Lose it" for neurotherapy, it is slowly lifting the fog. I remain very sensitive to vibrations and bright light. I have insomnia and used to fight it and try to go back to bed but becoming a night-owl has helped. Less light, less sound, less vibrations, less movements, less everything. I am an autodidact and do not know my IQ though when I was much younger I was determined untestable. I recently had memory testing at a local institute and it started off with the intern getting POed with me, lol. She was doing correlations and asked me 'Two and Seven?' I answered immediately in rapid staccato," 2+7, 27, three cubed, magic number nine!!!" She looked annoyed, had to remove several tests from her stack and add in a few others. She did say unhappily, "You high proficiencies...I was warned."  Great. I got tested by an intern with an attitude. A month later I went to my neurologist to go over the test but the institute had not only forgotten to send the results over, they hadn't even completed it yet and needed another week to finish the assessment. 

I try to have a sense of humor... 

 

[DizzyGirls]

Hi p8d! - Thanks for the update from your neurologist!  I was hoping you'd remember to write!  Sympathetic overdrive...hmmm.  Makes sense to me.  I've been trying to rehash the sympathetic and parasympathetic and to refresh my mind all the innerworkings of the two.  It's inexhaustible!  Makes my head spin trying to keep it all straight.  I just know that one seems to not be shutting down when it should be.  I'll look into the alpha blockers as well.  My oldest is on a beta blocker for her tachycardia and it is working very well for her.  She has a lot of the same problems her sister deals with.  Each have their own things that bother them more than the other, but both pretty much the same.  There has got to be something they can do about all of this or she's going to end up not being able to function in the daytime!  Have you ever tried being a nightowl like WinterSown?  And the intelligence thing, it's interesting.  You are a PhD, wow!  I have a high school education, never liked school, always did well, though.  If it were up to me, I'd play the piano all day!  And, my daughter would draw!  This is all very interesting.  Keep me posted on your progress and anything else you learn from your neuro!

 

Hi WinterSown! - You know, you said you became a night owl.  My youngest prefers to go to bed around 2 a.m.  She just likes to sit in her room and sketch, listen to her music so low that most people couldn't even hear it.  I think it's because, like you said, nobody is up, there are no movements (except the raccoons out back!), vibrations, stimuli (other than her own self).  I think that is why she likes that time of night.  She then makes up for the loss of sleep by sleeping in some (gets up around 9) and then takes a nap in the morning.  She has never been a high energy kid at all and has always needed a lot of rest.  I think I am understanding now why she likes that time of night.  I thought she was just being difficult and not wanting to go to bed.  But, I think she needs the silence when she is awake.  For some reason it doesn't count when she's asleep.  It's different.  Btw, the video was hilarious!!!