Bu School Of Medicine Thinks Increased Of Salt Raises Bp By Adrenalin Not Blood Volume Expansion

[RichGotsPots]

"It has long been thought that excessive salt consumption raises blood pressure by increasing blood volume, but researchers at the Boston University School of Medicine have conducted a research review that suggests another mechanism may be at work."

http://www.foodnavigator-usa.com/Science/Salt-increases-blood-pressure-by-adrenalin-not-volume-expansion

[k&ajsmom]

Well this is interesting. I wonder if salt (by way of adrenaline) could be contributing to pvc and adrenaline "surges" i get after eating and why salt seems to help some and not others. I wonder though why a bag of saline doesnt seem to effect me the same as table salt and doesnt seem to add to my pvc and addrenaline. This is def. Worth some investigation....thx for the post =)

[derekliz]

Very interesting!! Going to ask my POTS specialist about this.

Liz

[Guest Alex]

Rich,

great find.

I was wondering if you have the link to the original article published by those researchers.

thanks

Alex

[joyagh]

******I was just going to start adding salt and even more water hoping to alleviate the hypovolemia, but the last thing I need is more adrenaline!

[sue1234]

This might explain why I thought I was a misfit with always feeling worse when I pushed extra salt! I already am a ball of adrenaline, so this could well explain it. Thanks for the article!

[Guest Alex]

bump

[kayjay]

Please please please read the original work! It looks like all of subjects were hypertensive renal failure patients.

I'm not saying anyone should salt or not salt... But assuming that additional salt will raise your adrenalin is an *** ... ump tion!

I'm hyper pots. As in hyper diagnosed by a top endocrinologist at Johns Hopkins with a pheo. I dump so much adrenalin (cause I have hyper pots) that I will test positive for pheo. I spent a week at NIH while dr Pacek looked for my non existent pheo.

I'm so sorry to repeating myself! I'm so worried that a new person will read this salt stuff and hurt themselves. Yes...very low salt kills!

Anyway I'm hyper...did I mention that I have HYPER pots . Lol. Mayo clinic Rochester told me to increase my salt. I did and still do, and it helps.

Please get a 24 hour urine sodium check before you increase or decrease salt.

[Guest Alex]

Kayjay,

I've tried to read the original article published by Drs Gavras & Gavras (the one the original link makes reference to) but I was only able to find a very brief abstract so I don't have a complete picture of this.

Also, in my opinion, the amount of ingested salt that would trigger an adrenaline response (if the above assumption is correct) would have to be quite large.

Like with everything else, the best source of info for salt loading or other forms of treatment should be a dr and definitely some test results to guide the treatment - as you mentioned a 24 h urine test in particular.

By the way, this was the article I was referring to when I posted on the other thead.

Thank you for clarifying things, and I'll also repeat myself: I'd really like to read the full length article if anyone has access to it

Alex

[kayjay]

Kayjay,

I've tried to read the original article published by Drs Gavras & Gavras (the one the original link makes reference to) but I was only able to find a very brief abstract so I don't have a complete picture of this.

Also, in my opinion, the amount of ingested salt that would trigger an adrenaline response (if the above assumption is correct) would have to be quite large.

Like with everything else, the best source of info for salt loading or other forms of treatment should be a dr and definitely some test results to guide the treatment - as you mentioned a 24 h urine test in particular.

By the way, this was the article I was referring to when I posted on the other thead.

Thank you for clarifying things, and I'll also repeat myself: I'd really like to read the full length article if anyone has access to it

Alex

Thanks Alex!

[kayjay]

Something that is interesting to me is that " salt is not all the same". It's very much like sugar is some ways. Not all sugars are the same. I don't consider the "salt" in processed and fast foods to be healthy. I do keep a grinder of sea salt on my kitchen table though.

[Guest Alex]

I'm not playing the devil's advocate, but here is another article about salt and how it increases BP by stimulating the SNS to produce more adrenaline.

http://drkenromeo.wordpress.com/2012/04/04/salt-and-high-blood-pressure-debunking-the-myth/

Kayjay, is this the original article you have in mind? The one published by the researchers in Boston...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22227820

'Volume-expanded' hypertension: the effect of fluid overload and the role of the sympathetic nervous system in salt-dependent hypertension.

Gavras I, Gavras H.

Source

Hypertension and Atherosclerosis Section, Department of Medicine, Boston University School of Medicine, Boston, Massachusetts 02118, USA.

Abstract

It is widely believed that salt-dependent hypertension is induced and maintained by expansion of intravascular fluid volume resulting from excessive retention of sodium. The purpose of this brief article is to present a series of arguments in support of the thesis that volume overload per se does not raise the arterial blood pressure. Several investigators in the 1960s and 1970s reported that excessive retention of salt - regardless of cause - leads to sympathetic activation mediated by the effects of the Na ion on α(2)-adrenergic receptors located mostly in the brainstem. In recent years, the cloning and characterization of α(2)-adrenergic receptors subtypes permitted differentiation of their hemodynamic effects via use of salt loading of nephrectomized animals submitted to genetic engineering or gene treatment. These studies indicate that sodium alters the balance between the sympathoinhibitory α(2A)-adrenergic receptors and the sympathoexcitatory α(2B)-adrenergic receptors, leading to a hyperadrenergic hypertensive state unrelated to volume overload.

If so, I see no mentioning whatsoever about the preexisting health conditions (hypertensive renal failure), so I'm thinking we're talking about different publications here.

Alex

[kayjay]

I'm not playing the devil's advocate, but here is another article about salt and how it increases BP by stimulating the SNS to produce more adrenaline.

http://drkenromeo.wordpress.com/2012/04/04/salt-and-high-blood-pressure-debunking-the-myth/

Kayjay, is this the original article you have in mind? The one published by the researchers in Boston...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22227820

'Volume-expanded' hypertension: the effect of fluid overload and the role of the sympathetic nervous system in salt-dependent hypertension.

&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=22227820]Gavras I, &cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=22227820]Gavras H.

Source

Hypertension and Atherosclerosis Section, Department of Medicine, Boston University School of Medicine, Boston, Massachusetts 02118, USA.

Abstract

It is widely believed that salt-dependent hypertension is induced and maintained by expansion of intravascular fluid volume resulting from excessive retention of sodium. The purpose of this brief article is to present a series of arguments in support of the thesis that volume overload per se does not raise the arterial blood pressure. Several investigators in the 1960s and 1970s reported that excessive retention of salt - regardless of cause - leads to sympathetic activation mediated by the effects of the Na ion on α(2)-adrenergic receptors located mostly in the brainstem. In recent years, the cloning and characterization of α(2)-adrenergic receptors subtypes permitted differentiation of their hemodynamic effects via use of salt loading of nephrectomized animals submitted to genetic engineering or gene treatment. These studies indicate that sodium alters the balance between the sympathoinhibitory α(2A)-adrenergic receptors and the sympathoexcitatory α(2B)-adrenergic receptors, leading to a hyperadrenergic hypertensive state unrelated to volume overload.

If so, I see no mentioning whatsoever about the preexisting health conditions (hypertensive renal failure), so I'm thinking we're talking about different publications here.

Alex

Is this abstract based on animal studies where the animals had no kidneys? I appreciate you sharing this. I'm sure none of us would go against our doctors suggestion baised on this "information".

These two doctors (same "study") is repeated in various publications are not neurologists. They seem to be theorizing that Bp control is a brain action- not kidney. Maybe I'm really stupid and missing something here but my Bp issues are dysautonomia related so I've always assumed it's a "brain" thing.

I'm having trouble making sense but the BU team are not pots researchers. I can't find information on how many patients they are even talking about. ( human or animal). Everything that I can find seems to be linked to renal failure patients or animals that have had their kidneys removed. I personally wouldn't be comfortable using this "evidence" to make a decision AMA. It's interesting but irrelevant. Thankfully my kidneys have not been removed and are healthy

I'm done with the whole salt conversation. High salt- low salt... Whatever works for you.

I'm great with my mayo clinic doctor's recommendations. I just wouldn't want someone to lower their salt levels without checking with their doctors ... especially based on anything posted here.

Best wishes... And please pass the salt shaker .