Can Anyone Define Deconditioning?

[HopeSprings]

Is there a test for it? How is it diagnosed?

[brethor9]

I found this meaning on Wiki......personally none of it applies to me before I got diagnosed or even now. Seriously how can we be deconditioned when our body is running a constant marathon? Even doing a load of laundry is like going rock climbing! Before I got sick I worked a 50 hr week job, ran around after my autistic son and worked out for 2 hrs every night.....that is far from being deconditioned ;( sorry for the rant....I just really HATE that term ;( and as far as I know there is no test available to the general public to test it

Bren

Deconditioning is adaptation of an organism to less demanding environment, or, alternatively, the decrease of physiological adaptation to normal conditions. Decondition may result from decreased physical activity, prescribed bed rest, orthopedic casting, paralysis, aging, etc. ^[1][2] A particular interest in the study of deconditioning is in aerospace medicine, to diagnose, fight, and prevent adverse effects of the conditions of space flight.

Deconditioning due to decreased physical effort results in muscle loss, including heart muscles.

Deconditioning due to lack of gravity or non-standard gravity action (e.g., during bed rest) results in abnormal distribution of body fluids.^[3that

[SeattleRain]

I think it's more of a formal term for being "out of shape" (for whatever reason).

2. To cause to decline from a condition of physical fitness, as through a prolonged period of inactivity or, in astronauts, through weightlessness in space.

I don't think there's any tests that could really tell you this - would be more of an analysis of your level of activity - I'm sure your doctor could tell you right away.

[Mytwogirlsrox]

I think there are things like ejection fraction and oxygen consumption during exercise stress tests which indicate deconditioning

[Chaos]

I know at the hospital our "deconditioned" patients were the ones who usually couldn't get out of bed by themselves or couldn't stay upright by themselves, couldn't walk or transfer etc. Frequently they'd been in ICU for weeks. I know I considered myself "deconditioned" after I was on bedrest for 5 months with my last pregnancy. BUT, that resolved with common sense approaches to getting up regularly etc. It was nothing like the POTS symptoms I have now.

[HopeSprings]

I think if they're going to make a direct link between deconditioning and POTS or CFS, they need to define what that means. The only way to do that is to develop some measure or test that healthy people will pass and "deconditioned" people will fail. There has to be some standard that is agreed upon. X=deconditioning. Don't you think? I'm not saying deconditioning doesn't play a role (I have no idea), but what exactly does it mean?

[Guest Alex]

If I remember correctly it was a combo of data gathered by my dr during an echo (ejection fraction sounds about right Mytwogirlsrox), a breathing test (including a so called 6 min walking test) and a stress test with a respiratory component that my dr used when telling me I am deconditioned.

For the stress test some of the parameters that are analyzed are the heart rate attained during the test and the MET (metabolic intake of task) which is the oxygen consumed while exercising - these are compared with some average numbers that are considered normal for someone of the same age.

Also, I believe that the ejection fraction measured at rest during an echocardiogram should be at least 65%.

Alex

[HopeSprings]

Hmm, my echo and my echo-stress tests were normal, so I am likely not deconditioned then? I have been thinking about taking whatever measure they use to define deconditioning, taking it to my cardiologist, and asking to be tested for it. I'd like this cleared up once and for all. If they can show me this is the reason for my problems, then I'd ask for a referral to cardiac rehab.

[Guest Alex]

I hear you Naomi.

according to my January stress test I was deconditioned, according to a follow up one in June I was no longer deconditioned - despite not engaging in any regular physical exercise in between. So the truth is somewhere in between I guess. I had the same experience with my TTT - in January I fit the POTS criteria, in June I did not anymore. My dr's explanation - it is just a snapshot and POTS symptoms manifest at random at times. I am more confused than ever.

Have you tried talking to your cardio dr anyways? Or to the one who told you that you're deconditioned in the first place - at least to get him/her to explain to you why (s)he thinks you are deconditioned.

Alex

[Mytwogirlsrox]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VO2_max

Did you have this test?

[SeattleRain]

The diagnosis (if you can even call it that) for being deconditioned would come with a basic analysis of your level of activity. Being deconditioned revolves entirely around lack of activity and the effect that has on your muscle mass and other bodily processes.

You can't have a high level activity and be considered deconditioned (unless you're an Astronaut - since zero-gravity is void of any physical demand), since being deconditioned revolves around a severely low level of activity. This is different than your ability to exercise, how tired you are when you walk up a flight of stairs or how well your heart muscles are pumping as shown in a stress echocardiogram.

[Guest Alex]

I did Mytwogirlsrox. That is the test that I "failed" in Jan and "aced" in June.

[HopeSprings]

Alex, I wasn't told personally that I'm deconditioned. I agree with your Dr. that the TTT is a snapshot in time. My test did not capture the severity of what happens to me at home. Mytwogirls - I had a stress test that involved a treadmill. I wonder if it measured VO2 Max? I'm going to call the cardiologist and find out.

[Mytwogirlsrox]

I think you have to breathe into that thinner did you do that?

[HopeSprings]

I don't remember breathing into anything. Maybe I didn't have this test.

[Guest Alex]

It's a pretty uncomfortable mouthpiece you are breathing through while your nose is pinched closed. Quite uncomfortable. My mouth got quite dry by the end of the test. Also at the end of the test you have to blow as hard as you can, for as long as you can into that same mouthpiece - as if you were blowing the candles on your b-day cake. At least that's what I had to do.

Alex

[Chaos]

I was told by a pulmonologist that you need a pulmonary stress test to measure VO2max. It's not measured on your standard cardiac stress test (which is what I've had several times.) It's also not measured with standard pulmonary function tests.

Naomi- It's interesting to note that the CFS studies are showing that CFS patients have a significant decrease in VO2max with exercise compared to norms and their results are even worse if they do the test one day and then repeat it the next. Seems to be part of the the PEM or PENE issue that CFS patients have.

[HopeSprings]

I was told by a pulmonologist that you need a pulmonary stress test to measure VO2max. It's not measured on your standard cardiac stress test (which is what I've had several times.) It's also not measured with standard pulmonary function tests.

Ah, so you'd need a pulmonologist... the one type of specialist I've never seen. I know PEM, but what is PENE?

[Guest Alex]

PENE - post exertional neuroimmune exhaustion.

PEM - post exertional malaise

I did see a pulmonologist. He's the one who ordered and interpreted my cardio-pulmonary stress tests I've mentioned in my previous posts.

Alex

[anna]

Well I found this article about fitness may get some of you thinking!

http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/how-physiological-biochemical-and-neural-systems-influence-your-training-and-competition-performance-152