Gamma-Aminobutyric Acid Or Gaba, Have You Heard Of It? Picamilon?

[issie]

I'll respond on the new thread you just started - but, find this fascinating.

Issie

[martiz]

Thanks Issie!

I thought I would move the subject to a new thread so we don't hijack Rich's initial post.

Marti

[ramakentesh]

I always get concerned when people post speculative theory as fact.

Rich has his theories and a few prescribe to methylation theories regarding CFS. Problem is two seperate studies have just demonstrated that the abnormal cerebral antioxidant activity in CFS is a result of abnormal lactate levels raised to protect the brain from the effects of postural hypoxia.

Consequence rather than cause.

Secondly most of the highly funded and qualified CFS researchers are looking at other parameters. Methylation and detox certainly being more a patient driven theory now than anything else.

There could be antioxidant abnormalities In autism and oxidisive stress has been implicated in the etiology of many nuerological diseases but since our understanding of cerebral neuro circuitry is so infantile as is impossible to speculate.

But CFS and autism are nothing like one another in terms of onset, etiological theories or even on the brain areas effected. Intact CFS seems much more like alzheimers in that there is a loss of neuro circulatory control under cognitive challenge and loss of autorrgulatory buffer.

Simple answers for very complex physiology rarely fit and they often suggest an incomplete understanding if those physiological mechanisms.

[ramakentesh]

Also your post contains some inaccuracies. While many higher functioning autistic patients have an obsessive interest area, few actually demonstrate savante type phenomena. Higher functioning patients and those with aspergers might be able to demonstrate incredible amounts of knowledge about an interest area, but still many autistic patients are not verbal, cannot communicate, etc.

The sensitivities found in CFS, perhaps pots are similar to those found in migraine: sympathetically mediated intolerance to light, sound and stressful stimuli. Sometimes excessive pain sensitivity due to activation of sodium channels.

Autistic patients experience deranged senses. They feel all stimuli abnormally. Higher functioning patients describe tactile sensations as burning and often in quite strange ways. They often describe the need to 'stim' or for deep pressure squeezing to relieve a constant feeling of tactile discomfort. Further some appear to experience pain abnormally and some cannot distinguish between self and other.

A totally different entity.

[hilbiligrl]

my doc wanted me to try gaba about a year ago, but for some reason, i didn't.... not sure why because i tend to have great results with anything that helps with gaba i.e. klonopin.... lunesta, etc I also bought niacin (the flush free) but i only added it to my regimen about a year ago for only a week and then my doc said scratch it, so i did, not sure why though.

I haven't gotten into reading this thread but interesting how my doc wanted me to try gaba but not the niacin....... so now, i've got reading to do.... very inetersting

[martiz]

I always get concerned when people post speculative theory as fact.

.

.

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Simple answers for very complex physiology rarely fit and they often suggest an incomplete understanding if those physiological mechanisms.

My response to the first sentence is - I am not stating this as fact! Hopefully, everyone knows that I am thinking out loud, trying to tie pieces of the puzzle together. I hope that I did not make any statements on any thread that is put across as fact.

My response to the second - I willingly admit that I have an incomplete understanding of physiological mechanisms - that's why I'm here.

Marti

[firewatcher]

Can J Physiol Pharmacol. 2012 Apr 18. [Epub ahead of print]

Glutamate and GABA in the medial amygdala induce selective central sympathetic/parasympathetic cardiovascular responses.

Neckel H, Quagliotto E, Casali KR, Montano N, Dal Lago P, Rasia-Filho AA.

Source

a Department of Basic Sciences, Federal University of Health Sciences of Porto Alegre, RS 90050-170, Brazil.

Abstract

Glutamate and γ-aminobutyric acid (GABA) participate in central cardiovascular control, and are found in the rat posterodorsal medial amygdala (MePD), an area of the forebrain that modulates emotional/social behaviors. Here we tested whether these neurotransmitters in the MePD could change the basal activity, chemoreflex, and baroreflex cardiovascular responses in awake rats. Power spectral analysis and symbolic analysis were used to evaluate these responses. Microinjections of saline, glutamate (2 µg), or GABA (61 ng or 100 µg; n = 5-7 rats per group) did not affect basal parameters or chemoreflex responses. However, baroreflex responses showed marked changes. Glutamate increased power spectral and symbolic sympathetic indexes related to both cardiac and vascular modulations (P < 0.05). In turn, the displacement of the baroreflex half-maximal heart rate (HR) response was associated with a GABA (61 ng) mediated decrease in the upper plateau (P < 0.05). Administration of GABA (61 ng, but not 100 µg) also increased HR variability (P < 0.05), in association with parasympathetic activation. These data add novel evidence that the MePD can promote selective responses in the central regulation of the cardiovascular system, i.e., glutamate in the MePD evoked activation of a central sympathetic reflex adjustment, whereas GABA activated a central parasympathetic one. PMID: 22512449 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

[Birdlady]

When I got my methylation tests back, I decided I wanted to start on 500mg GABA because some docs say it is indicated in those with my specific COMT mutations. I can't say that I'm feeling anything good or bad at the moment. One interesting side effect is that it's making my boobs grow....HAHA If that's all it ends up doing, I'll still be a happy customer.

I always loved the way niacin made me feel. Even when the flushing got real bad, I liked it...lol From what I've read, niacin will burn through methyl groups. The vasodililation did not bother me much at all.

My glutamate levels are more than double the top end of the range. When this was tested, I was not eating any MSG or anything with free glutamics in it, so the problem is with my body and not diet. My α-ketoglutarate levels were also more than double the range. Both of these go along with the mutations that were found in my genetic testing. BUT my urea and ammonia levels are low or normal, so that's where things get weird for me. Where is all of that glutamic acid/α-ketoglutaric acid going? My theory is that my body is using this α-ketoglutaric acid for energy to create more ATP, since my HR's are 150 on a regular basis. I've always thought that my body is eating itself to death and that's why for me exercise is not a good thing. I'm simply increasing the need for these things when I exert myself.

It is nice to see that both my genetic test and NutrEval test results are actually finally making sense.