ramakentesh Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 My doctor has given me the go ahead to try either Horse Chestnut or Butchers Broom.I remember a few here had tried horse chestnut and I was wondering how long they took it, how long it took to feel anything, any negative results and any other info any people have who have tried it.Im currently on mestonin and may eventually be adding a small dose beta blocker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E246 Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Rama, I assume you read the article that someone posted a link to regarding Butchers Broom. It was quite difficult to get -had to sweet talked the uni librarian who took pity and sent a copy. In it it says:"...horse chestnut alone had a negligible effect. But when one or two standard capsules or tablets were taken three or more times a day with butcher's broom, the erratic vasoconstrictive action of the butcher's broom was smoothed out, essentially eliminating the roller coaster effect"Like Issie said in an earlier post sometimes it's the combination that works because there appears to be contradictory things going on in different parts of the body.I am just trailing a few supplements for my heart and will try the broom next. The one I bought has horse chestnut and vine leaf - thats how it came. Have you got a handle on the dosage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramakentesh Posted February 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Dr Rowe told someone I know that horse chestnut worked better than butchers LOL. But ive read the article by Redman that you are referring to which says the opposite. Im adding this med to mestonin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
issie Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Just pay attention and take it slow. Herbal literature has warnings on Horse Chestnut. Rama, we don't want anything worse to happen to you - we all appreciate your input here. But, it'd be nice if you could find something to help you to feel better. Keep us posted on what you do and how it is affecting you.Issie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramakentesh Posted February 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 When i was told it helped with hypotension I wasnt expecting quite such a profound reaction from a micro dose - as in some stuck to my little finger:192/106 HR 99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
issie Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Whoa, honey - that's nearly stroke level. Hope that's not something you plan to continue. Bet you didn't feel good on that. Issie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramakentesh Posted February 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 I couldnt believe it because I actually didnt feel that bad - sweaty and a little fidgetty. And most definately I wont be trying that again. Maybe my dose was just three atoms of the stuff... I couldnt believe it. It was actually 194/106 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
issie Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Mark that one off the trial list. At least you're narrowing things down to try. Hang in There! We're all working on trying to figure things out. It's just a matter of figuring ourselves out and how our bodies are functioning and then that will determine what supplements or meds will work best. It just gives you another piece to the puzzle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramakentesh Posted February 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramakentesh Posted February 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Only lasted twenty minutes but imagine Id taken even 1/4 of the recommended dose??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
issie Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Not good, not good at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramakentesh Posted February 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 My doctor emailed me and suggested that perhaps it isnt as mild as previously thought! And told me to throw it out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
issie Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 NO KIDDING! He should have told you that BEFORE you tried it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L4UR3N Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Wow that is scary stuff!!! Thank you for being a guinea pig Rama! haha. I heard that this was supposedly good for ehlers danlos. Definitely wont be trying it now.How long did it take to come back down?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramakentesh Posted February 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Well id only be a guinea pig if I got medical advice saying it looked legit. I have no idea what that extreme hypersensitivyt means - does it suggest that prostglandulins or serotonin have a role in my POTS? that herb releases the former and stimulates receptors of the later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L4UR3N Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 I definitely think serotonin plays a role in my POTS--just havent figured out how yet. I'm particularly interested in the 5-HT2C receptor... I wish more research was being done on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramakentesh Posted February 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 I have some theories on that. There are studies that suggest that increased sympathetic activity and NE levels result in upregulation of Serotonin transporters. Some groups think that NET function is impaired in POTS and in panic disorder. Animal models of NET deficiency also show that low NET = high SERT.High serotonin reuptake means low serotonin. This could be just peripherally (in the stomach and vasculature) but its most likely also cerebrally.A model for stress-induced anxiety and depression postulated that chronic stress depleted serotonin and also upregulated serotonin transporters.In either pathway the end result would be upregulation of serotoninic receptors like 5-HT2C. But the net result of that upregulation to counter low serotonin availability is feelings of depression and anxiety.An SSRI would reduce SE transporter levels to normal, increase serotonin levels at the synapse and eventually downregulate 5-HT2C receptors, resulting in reductions in depression or anxiety.This receptor might also explain why some POTs patients feel better on tramadol, since it is a potent antagonist of this receptor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L4UR3N Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 The interesting thing is that I was actually on an SSRI years before I developed this level of severity of POTS (I have always had it to some degree). It was only when I went off the SSRI that I started to not feel well. I really didn't connect the dots until recently when I started really thinking back and trying to pinpoint when I crashed. I have been toying with the idea of going back on an SSRI, but I know the potential is there to make me much worse as well. I think I need a long vacation to try out all these meds lol .There is a natural supplement called inositol, which works like an SSRI and apparently does not have a lot of the negative side effects. I have a friend with POTS who has benefited greatly from this supplement. Gives me some hope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
issie Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 I have high NE levels and Tramadol has been my best drug for POTS - yet. So, I would agree with your theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L4UR3N Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Rama was the hypertensive reaction you had to the Horse Chestnut, or the Butchers Broom?? My integrative med doc wants me to try a Ginkgo/ Horse Chestnut compound.... Kinda worried after reading this, though Im not sure which one you actually took? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zap Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 There is a natural supplement called inositol, which works like an SSRI and apparently does not have a lot of the negative side effects. I have a friend with POTS who has benefited greatly from this supplement. Gives me some hope I've just read this thread, with a lot of interest. Seeing the mention of inositol, I thought I'd chime in with mention of SAM-e. It has some anti-depressant effects and MAY actually work better than an SSRI. Rama's post upstream is of great interest to me, as we know that NET function is likely low in POTS. If low NET = high SERT, then there is a chain reaction. SAM-e provides methyl group donors for the NET process, which may be treating the CAUSE. This may then have the chain reaction of bringing the high SERT back to normal. Fascinating.... Looks like its time for me to hit up Amazon for a small package of SAM-e to give this a try. My symptoms have been awful the last two days now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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