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Horse Chestnut - Aescin - Anyone Tried??


ramakentesh
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My doctor has given me the go ahead to try either Horse Chestnut or Butchers Broom.

I remember a few here had tried horse chestnut and I was wondering how long they took it, how long it took to feel anything, any negative results and any other info any people have who have tried it.

Im currently on mestonin and may eventually be adding a small dose beta blocker.

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Rama, I assume you read the article that someone posted a link to regarding Butchers Broom. It was quite difficult to get -had to sweet talked the uni librarian who took pity and sent a copy. In it it says:

"...horse chestnut alone had a negligible effect. But when one or two standard capsules or tablets were taken three or more times a day with butcher's broom, the erratic vasoconstrictive action of the butcher's broom was smoothed out, essentially eliminating the roller coaster effect"

Like Issie said in an earlier post sometimes it's the combination that works because there appears to be contradictory things going on in different parts of the body.

I am just trailing a few supplements for my heart and will try the broom next. The one I bought has horse chestnut and vine leaf - thats how it came. Have you got a handle on the dosage?

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Just pay attention and take it slow. Herbal literature has warnings on Horse Chestnut. Rama, we don't want anything worse to happen to you - we all appreciate your input here. But, it'd be nice if you could find something to help you to feel better. Keep us posted on what you do and how it is affecting you.

Issie

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Mark that one off the trial list. At least you're narrowing things down to try. Hang in There! We're all working on trying to figure things out. It's just a matter of figuring ourselves out and how our bodies are functioning and then that will determine what supplements or meds will work best. It just gives you another piece to the puzzle.

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Wow that is scary stuff!!! Thank you for being a guinea pig Rama! :P haha.

I heard that this was supposedly good for ehlers danlos. Definitely wont be trying it now.

How long did it take to come back down??

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I definitely think serotonin plays a role in my POTS--just havent figured out how yet. I'm particularly interested in the 5-HT2C receptor... I wish more research was being done on this.

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I have some theories on that. There are studies that suggest that increased sympathetic activity and NE levels result in upregulation of Serotonin transporters. Some groups think that NET function is impaired in POTS and in panic disorder. Animal models of NET deficiency also show that low NET = high SERT.

High serotonin reuptake means low serotonin. This could be just peripherally (in the stomach and vasculature) but its most likely also cerebrally.

A model for stress-induced anxiety and depression postulated that chronic stress depleted serotonin and also upregulated serotonin transporters.

In either pathway the end result would be upregulation of serotoninic receptors like 5-HT2C. But the net result of that upregulation to counter low serotonin availability is feelings of depression and anxiety.

An SSRI would reduce SE transporter levels to normal, increase serotonin levels at the synapse and eventually downregulate 5-HT2C receptors, resulting in reductions in depression or anxiety.

This receptor might also explain why some POTs patients feel better on tramadol, since it is a potent antagonist of this receptor.

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The interesting thing is that I was actually on an SSRI years before I developed this level of severity of POTS (I have always had it to some degree). It was only when I went off the SSRI that I started to not feel well. I really didn't connect the dots until recently when I started really thinking back and trying to pinpoint when I crashed. I have been toying with the idea of going back on an SSRI, but I know the potential is there to make me much worse as well. I think I need a long vacation to try out all these meds lol :).

There is a natural supplement called inositol, which works like an SSRI and apparently does not have a lot of the negative side effects. I have a friend with POTS who has benefited greatly from this supplement. Gives me some hope :D

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  • 4 months later...

Rama was the hypertensive reaction you had to the Horse Chestnut, or the Butchers Broom?? My integrative med doc wants me to try a Ginkgo/ Horse Chestnut compound.... Kinda worried after reading this, though Im not sure which one you actually took?

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There is a natural supplement called inositol, which works like an SSRI and apparently does not have a lot of the negative side effects. I have a friend with POTS who has benefited greatly from this supplement. Gives me some hope :D

I've just read this thread, with a lot of interest. Seeing the mention of inositol, I thought I'd chime in with mention of SAM-e. It has some anti-depressant effects and MAY actually work better than an SSRI. Rama's post upstream is of great interest to me, as we know that NET function is likely low in POTS. If low NET = high SERT, then there is a chain reaction. SAM-e provides methyl group donors for the NET process, which may be treating the CAUSE. This may then have the chain reaction of bringing the high SERT back to normal. Fascinating.... Looks like its time for me to hit up Amazon for a small package of SAM-e to give this a try. My symptoms have been awful the last two days now.

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