Connection Between Histamine, Estrogen, Serotonin

[lieze]

Apparently estrogen triggers mast cells?

And stress causes high levels of serotonin?

Maybe it's the bodies attempt to compensate?

And high serotonin levels lead to learned helplessness?

Interesting stuff.

Evidently high serotonin levels cause demyelinization in the brain, may cause multiple sclerosis and causes decrease in energy production in the mitochondria and decreased ATP in the lungs.

This is all stuff we read about here.

So do some of us have very high serotonin levels and is it what causes some of our symptoms?

Apparently autistic children and their families tend to have very high serotonin levels.

I'll provide the link I read this from.

It's interesting stuff.

I can tell right away the serotonin blocker is a better fit for me initially.

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/serotonin.shtml

[lieze]

Also this....

One study by doctors at the Maudsley Hospital in London suggested that people with Anorexia were twice as likely to have variations in the gene for serotonin receptors, part of which helps to determine appetite. Because of an overproduction of serotonin, it is possible that those with Anorexia are in a continual state of feeling acute stress -- as in the fight or flight response -- creating an overwhelming and constant sense of anxiety. (Genetic clues to eating disorders; BBC News)

[icesktr189]

Thats crazy! I just dont understand how an SSRI can make me feel better though and trust me I have tons of stress. I also heard having a chronic illness lowered serotonin levels? I have heard about the autism and high levels though. That should def. be looked into!

[lieze]

I know Dani...

The way maybe an SSRI does help you is maybe it balances things out a bit.

I am not really into all this author's hype about the government/ drug companies etc and am in no way trying to promote that.

I am very interested though in how he explains how these neurotransmitters work in the body.

[issie]

I know that when my sister had anorexia what pulled her out of it is anabolic shots - what they give to starving POW people. After 5 shots, it reversed whatever chemical in her brain wouldn't let her eat and she recovered from the horrible illness. It makes sense that there is an imbalance in the hormones.

[Sallysblooms]

Yes, stress and illness use up seratonin.

I have never heard of causing seratonin to go up with stress. It is called the Seratonin Sink. Just like many other things in our body are used when ill/stressed. Reserves are used up. Seratonin usually goes down with lack of sleep,

I take 5HTP for replenishing it. I get it tested twice a year.

[lieze]

I think I went through a period of time where it worked for me not that it was healthy at all but I had high energy-was almost depressed if I wasn't doing something-and barely ate-went on raw energy.

Then things changed and I entered a toxic zone is the way I would describe it where it just seems damaging on every level.

I would be interested to get levels checked and see where they are. I have had days when I released so much hormone I literally felt like it would fry my brain and I wanted to crawl right out of my skin. Stress or confrontation and I get the hot skin yuck I hate it!!!! I guess this is kind of the same mechanism for some where their blood pressure goes sky high. The results are just a bit different in me but feels just as toxic.

[icesktr189]

lieze...i also used to get only four hours of sleep, drink coffee, and smoke and felt a lot better. this was a year after my diagnosis of pots. I was basically having my second wind all day. I did this for a year and a half until I became pregnant. I still feel better pots wise with little sleep.

[Annaliese]

Lieze, im wondering if estrogen dominance is behind low flow pots. Especially if it causes mast cell activation.

Effects of Estrogen Replacement Therapy on the Renin-Angiotensin System in Postmenopausal Women

Abstract

Background Oral estrogen replacement therapy (ERT) is known to stimulate the synthesis of angiotensinogen. The effects of such therapy on renin, ACE, and aldosterone are less clear. This seems noteworthy, however, since further activation of the system could be disadvantageous to postmenopausal women who replace estrogen in the context of heart failure, coronary artery disease, or hypertension.

Methods and Results Estrogen status and components of the renin-angiotensin system were examined in a population-based sample of postmenopausal women and age-matched men. Renin was quantified immunoradiometrically, ie, independent of substrate abundance; aldosterone, angiotensinogen, and ACE activity were determined by standard methods. Renin levels were lower in women with ERT (n=107; 12.0±0.7 mU/L) compared with women without ERT (n=223; 16.6±0.9 mU/L; P=.001) or men (n=342, 20.5±1.5 mU/L, P<.0001). In contrast, angiotensinogen was higher in women with ERT (1.36±0.08 mg/L) compared with women without ERT (1.03±0.02 mg/L; P<.0001) or compared with men (0.97±0.01 mg/L; P<.0001). Renin suppression was seen with either oral or transdermal estrogen replacement (-30% and -31%, respectively; both P<.001). In contrast, the increase of angiotensinogen was limited to women taking oral estrogens (+58%, P<.001). Multivariate analysis revealed that these estrogen effects were independent of age, body mass index, blood pressure, and/or antihypertensive medication. Finally, only marginal differences between groups were observed for serum ACE activity and aldosterone.

Conclusions Aside from a well-documented induction of angiotensinogen, ERT is related to a substantial suppression of renin, a phenomenon that might have received little attention because of widely used indirect measurements of the hormone.

[potsgirl]

Lieze,

I found your post about anorexia very interesting. I went through treatment for it about 20 years ago, and I know I still deal with it. Do you have any idea how to find more information on this link between anorexics and the genes for serotonin receptors?

Dani, love the new pix with your baby!

[lieze]

I have no idea except to just try to google anything you can think of related.

I'm not sure it's all emotional or psychological on my part or those in my family affected more like it's the physical driving the problem.

I am worried about my second son now, not sure if I am repeating this...

He is way too thin.

10 years old and only 50 pounds,

A walking skeleton : (

He plays normally does not get sick often.

Does not always display normal hunger.

Gets stomach aches after eating at times.

He goes for hours without eating if not prompted just doesn't seem to recognize a need for food ( just like me ) and while energy stores hold out you just get the impression that you are okay.

Has been complaining of dizziness and headaches in the evening.

I am determined to change his pattern.

I'm going to feed him often and hope that he gains along with what he eats at regular meals.

For some reason liquids seem to be a key for me.

I've started drinking Gatorade even though it is supposedly a no no for me with the dextrose ( corn ) and a pepsi that I sip on definite no no with corn syrup...and I instantly gained a pound? The Gatorade and pepsi do not equal that many calories but I've always thrived on liquids-possibly been fluid loading and not knowing it,

Perhaps the sodium helps open the cells to water and without it I am dehydrated.

Maybe it's more water gain than weight gain.

Either way I feel better and I do not get those spells where I feel toxic and like I'm gonna drop any

minute-like it's going to take me down.

I hate to be taking in something I'm allergic to and fear it will backfire but right now the benefits are what I am noticing.

My son's weight is just stuck even though he is trying like I am to gain weight.

[issie]

My sis had anorexia and was given anabolic steriod injections to start her back to eating. These are partially male hormones along with other things. They are given to POW's who have been in starvation situations to increase muscle mass and put weight on them and to get them to be able to eat again. My sister had 5 shots and it saved her life. I wonder if there is a deficiency of testerone in those with anorexia. Or if there is an estrogen dominance issue it could imbalance the testerone levels.

[s-pot]

just to add to this convo!!

I struggled with Anorexia for 8yrs...i suspect my POTS pre-existed this as i remember having POT's symptoms. They were dismissed as anxiety and psychosymatic and it was here the dry wretching, lack of appetite and total confusion lead to the ED.

I was put on SSRI's at the time...i now suspect these did a good job at controlling the POTS as the symptoms i was complaining of reduced but the anorexia deepened.

Fast forward 8yrs....fully recovered from the anorexia/bulimia....came off the SSRI's slowly and Bang...hit like a truck with POTS symptoms. I got my diagnosis of POTS just a year later after losing 2 stone, constant dry wretching, heart pounding etc and total insistance with medics that i was NOT anorexic again!

Also to note I cannot ever tolerate combined contraceptives containing Oestrogen...i vomit like mad and am bound to the couch just 2-3 days after starting them. Also the times in my cycle when natural oestrogen is at its highest is my worst time for POTS (landed in hosp the last time it got so bad)

Pituatry MRI showed Microadenoma still waiting on further hormone results etc.

But putting all that together I suspect there is defo so correlation between serotonin, oestrogen and POTS for me just havent got a clue what that is!