comfortzone

I am hoping maybe you can clarify something for me? My blood pressure is an issue - it's labile. I haven't yet had the 24 hour b/p monitoring - but that will come next week. I did have a holter - sinus tach = 100 as the avg bpm....and runs of PAT, and some other ectopic beats as well. So while the autonomic test on the table was not difficult at all - it only measures flat to tilted near upright at a minute or so (my b/p doesn't crash till 3 hours on my feet)... So I was hypertensive throughout the morning of testing (the afternoon it got quite low though) Bp was high lying flat and higher upright. I would think the higher upright might suggest an adrenergic surge so to speak....and orthostatic hypertension.... but what test tells the doc this is the case? Does cardiology have to get involved or is it nephrology? Yet the whole picture is clouded by b/p meds that they are fearful of stopping for the sake of diagnostics. I did the cats and mets testing - if the results come back the same as when I was 20 years old (33 years ago) - they will come back normal. Way back then the doc told me ' you must just run at a high adrenergic state ' and said I didn't have pheo etc... So if the catecholamines are normal - is that the end all say all test for the hyperadrenergic responsiveness of the ANS? How else can they tell if you are running at a high end state or running fast due to dysautonomia? Are there other labs and tests that can tease this out of my messy group of symptoms?

I saw a rheumatologist who read the radiology reports and he waxed poetic about the constant frustration docs have with radiologists......who are supposed to NOT diagnose. So for instance my CT said evidence of lacunar infarct and my white matter stuff was told to be of 3 likely origins or causes. The doctor said that is a FOUL! LOL - he said that radiologists are shadow readers only and need to stay shadow readers and not interject their diagnosis. He called my hyperintensities or those non-specific things UBO's.........Unidentified Bright Objects -- hahaha.... Okay I said - fine - I have a bunch of UBO's in my brain - what concerns me is I can't think my way out of a paper bag. I broke down and cried today for the number of times I lost things, dropped things, found myself doing the wrong thing, got lost, made traffic errors driving - it's never ending and very frightening.

I'm just curious -- I was under the impression that much of what Mayo does for folks is give them the diagnosis that seems to best fit ... the diagnosis that you list are pretty sophisticated....(my docs of a local grouping had no idea what POTS was or dysautonomia etc and they were specialists)... So as you already have these diagnosis.....are you looking to get a treatment plan as the people who diagnosed you are unwilling to help you out? Did you know that when you saw them and they gave you that boatload of diagnosis? Or do you doubt the diagnosis and wish to get confirmation? I would think it shameful if a doctor gave you that serious laundry list of problems as diagnosis and not go to bat for you to get the earliest possible appointment for treatment options if they themselves could not tell you how to treat their diagnosis....

I would just Google the Mayo Clinic Scottsdale/Phoenix and get your information phone numbers that way....or call the MN Mayo and ask them for the numbers to the Scottsdale scheduling department if you don't have a computer. Then tell the scheduling department your story. They'll probably want to know who it is you wish to see ~ and depending upon your insurance - you may or may not need a referral from a local doctor you see. Then I'd expect to have to provide by mail or fax the Scottsdale Forms that they will mail to you. Not any different I suspect from what you did to get into the line-up for scheduling up in MN. It would be really nice if the two locations worked together .... but I don't know that they do. If they did - it would be nice if the MN schedulers could call AZ and speak with them about availability for you. Dr. Goodman is in the neurology department. I overheard people in line for tests and such mention that they were using Medicare - so it's heresay only - but my guess is that Scottsdale is an elderly or approaching advanced age community for a large portion of folks...who would be using Medicare. It was at least 115 degrees outside this past week or so ... so if you cannot handle heat - be forwarned. I have found it not problematic which is a blessing. I hope you get the care you need and deserve sooner rather than later -- good luck to you.

I have nothing to say or type - but I will give you a big hug and prayers for a string of amazing blessings and good luck in the days ahead......You are incredibly strong ... I mean simply utterly amazing and you wanted no part of it ... nonetheless that's you..... My sincerest hope for many many better days ahead...forever! NEVER ever give up!

I just want to applaud you for reaching out to others in all that's going on......that's good and it's healthy. I also want to offer hope - although this time is stressing and seemingly bizarre and you wonder if it's ever going to stop etc.......from my experience - as best you can -- RELAX. You will look back at this time one day and quite possibly smile - if not laugh. Your brain is very smart and will not steer you wrong. It will rest and sleep when it needs to.....it will space out under extreme conditions - but come back again. You and your body are grounded and solid and can endure this and who knows what else that comes your way. BELIEVE this. You are very very strong.....stronger than most. You will heal...& things will most emphatically get better. Take very good care of yourself and do not judge yourself for this craziness you experience...simply view a person struggling and have tons of compassion... Medications work for some.... Yet do come with risks.... Every body organ is impacted by medication - and most assuredly the brain. If you are prescribed a medication talk with the prescribing clinician about what it will be like to try to get OFF the medication down the road a bit.....because honestly rarely will they tell you how hard it is to get off a med. Also if medication clouds the brain - and has you lose objectivity -- (think about the millions on antidepressants that are STILL depressed...who keep adding more and more meds) - how will you know if you are doing better truly? If stressors lead to a cause that can be worked through with a medical doctor or a counselor -- it maybe better tackled this way than a medication for something that's not medical.... Hang in there - things WILL surely improve - & just around the corner by my best guess!

Wow - good for you! I only 4 mos. ago tried working as a chef - 4 hours a day for 4 days a week ... it kicks my butt for sure as I get orthostatic lows in b/p after standing about 3 hours. But it beats the sit and stand which is so hard for me -- so it's standing I do. I cannot do nursing any longer because it involves lifting 50 pounds, bending, stooping, crouching, getting out of chairs with no arms, and lots of mental energy on top of it all -- with chronic pain meds .. I'm rendered out of the field. In fact I got fired from my feeble attempt to be a home nurse (my way of hiding my disability or so I thought - my usual practice NICU and PEDS).....I simply couldn't keep up functionally and cognitively. I am intensely aware of the blessing it is to have gone to cooking school many moons ago - yet I would love to be a nurse again. If there ever becomes a nurse position that is a desk job - that is only 4 hours a day - only 2-4 days a week....I am so in. But 8 hours and I'd be in an ER... - let alone 12 hours, let alone a night shift. It takes a very very strong person to be a nurse - EVEN if you are 100% healthy and functional......add the rest of what we deal with and disability becomes an unwelcome yet glaring reality.... Blessings in your endeavors!

I would actually have you consider flying to Scottsdale AZ and see Dr. Brent Goodman. The hotels and such are SUPER inexpensive as it's off season. Dr. Goodman having just left MN for AZ does have availability currently that is not the usual 6 mos. to a year wait. This is a huge bonus for those wishing to see someone that's an EXPERT and extremely gifted. Once diagnosed and tx plan given then perhaps you could fly home and do follow up with one of the people he suggests as he used to work there in MN. The airfare isn't all that bad.....if you do need to see someone soon. Anyway I only mention this as it's an unusual window to see someone in less than 6 mos. to a year - he's the best I've come across in a long while - & again to stay a week or two in AZ can be an amazing experience.... Blessings in whatever you decide to do! Rooms are going for 30 bucks a night that are RESORTS :-)

Hello I always have a hard time wording this series of events -- you start off at some point in the morning with some higher energy and get on with a normal days activities (after your difficult morning period perhaps). Then at some period of time after activities you suddenly have to stop. Perhaps like 'lay down or fall down' type of feeling. I get this after 4 hours. I associated it with varying blood pressure from high to low or normal to low - when it started happening to me. Where I get tripped up is in describing this to clinicians. If I use the word 'fatigue' it seems to be misunderstood to a tired all the time kind of feeling or a feeling of the ability to do only short bits of work for a few minutes and then feeling exhausted. This is not exactly what I'm talking about however. What I experience is more like a sudden loss of energy - where I have to stop what I'm doing even though I was going very strong - just like a healthy individual & then suddenly really feel sweaty, weak or lightheaded, and compelled to lie down for an extended period of time to recover. Which is different in my mind from the other phenomena of fatigue. I do also get 'fatigue' days where I again can maybe do the dishes and a bit more - then rest, then do more, then rest - in little ten minute intervals. But at the end of say 3 to 4 hours on even those days I have to lie down flat. Yet this kind of day is different than the sudden loss of all steam on my stronger days. So is there a better word to use than fatigue that seems to have people understand you as yawning all the time and feeling sleepy perhaps or just with no energy all of the time? Or is my series of events rightly called fatigue? Also aren't there different kinds of fatigue such as muscle fatigue versus other kinds? Anyway when I use that word it seems I always get myself into trouble - by being perhaps misunderstood..... or not?

Hi! Well the way I understand 'normal' blood pressure is that you want it less than 140/90 no matter your adult age, gender, ethnicity etc... I know that the top number is one that is a bit more likely to be variable in response to stressors - meaning it will rise if you are under a lot of tension for some people... The bottom number is thought by some to be 'more important' because it's the steady number - and if you are 'steady' at a high rate - this number being high is of greater consequence in causing health concerns to blossom if left untreated. It's been thought that blood pressure over a lifetime can increase. So if you are approaching advanced age - your chances of having high blood pressure may be greater than a healthy 20 year old. The joys of aging! Blood pressure changes with blood volume too - if you are dehydrated your blood pressure can get lower. In a day you blood pressure will fluctuate to a certain extent and that is on purpose or by design. If you exercise your blood pressure readings are generally a bit higher and thats okay if it returns to the normal range after rest. Or for some it will increase but not to hypertensive levels. Also your blood pressure varies as your body changes position - it's normal and by design. Going from lying - to sitting - to standing is a common way to measure blood pressure to see if you are dehydrated. Called "orthostatic blood pressure readings". Ideally you lay down for at least a few minutes and a reading is done - and a pulse checked. Next you sit for one full minute and the readings are taken, lastly you stand and the readings are taken.... If you are 'dry' you will have your blood pressure go low with standing and your pulse rise... You are then "orthostatic" Drink a liter or two and things equilibrate usually. Hi blood pressure can cause diseases of your cerebrovascular system and your cardiovascular system - it can cause end organ damage and all kinds of things that are not good. A stroke is often a result of untreated high blood pressure. High blood pressure often has zero symptoms and it's tragic when the first time one knows about having had it is from a stroke. Sometimes high or low blood pressure can cause symptoms. A headache can accompany either - but more often high blood pressure. Low blood pressure can have you feel dizzy or spacey or as if you are going to faint. A blood pressure that varies much more than a few points up or down as a normal physiologic variance - is called labile blood pressure. A person can have high and low all in one day, day after day. This is never normal - just as high blood pressure is not normal. From reading here it appears as though many have orthostatic intolerance or OI......a state where changes in position cause radical shifts in blood pressure that just don't happen in normal autonomic nervous systems I guess. So as the autonomic nervous system regulates blood pressure - it reasons that if it's whacky your blood pressure can veer off to whacky as well. But there are many many reasons for whacky blood pressures that cardiology and nephrology and neurology and endocrinology can tease out with diagnostics. As it's all important to achieve normal levels it's important to get to the bottom of it. Some peoples vary more than 30 points with changes in position ~ and it isn't always the way you'd expect... If you have a hyper-adrenergic response to position changes you can have an outpouring of hormones raising your blood pressure - when going from sit to stand - called orthostatic hypertension - the opposite of what most peoples bodies do..... So it's complicated and I'm just learning because I have labile blood pressure and cannot get a handle on it yet -- pretty nerve wracking!

Hi Dianne ~ I just wanted to mention that Dr. Goodman is back in Scottsdale - just recently. Did you know that? I was one of the first to get an appt. upon his return from the great white north LOL.... I think his schedule is a bit more open than usual as he just came back. When I scheduled in mid July not even the staff at Mayo in scheduling knew that he was back..... So if I read your note right you weren't aware of this? Anyway I agree the man is simply a gem among gems......thank you for the well wishes too!

Sorry ~ I've got the other problem - no appetite - then ravenous - then I do eat too much.... Or the opposite - huge appetite and then 2 bites has me full. You know dark chocolate is loaded with good for you things I've read. And it has fiber which is good too. Can you incorporate chocolate into foods to boost nutrition, fat, antioxidants etc? Like a nutella sandwich or french toast.... Or chocolate in a bit of hot cereal.... Real deal cocoa to drink..... Chocolate and nut butters.... Banana and chocolate some-mores... Chocolate sauce in milk, over pancakes, on top of ice cream? Chocolate in yogurt or ricotta cheese... Your struggle cannot be an easy one - I wish I had answers.... I just know that I too get chocolate cravings and I'll seriously eat it and count it as a nutrient blessing and I'm glad at least you are fond of it or crave it... Boost and other supplements can be made to taste more real by adding unsweetened cocoa.... I share your lack of thirst - so driinking can be a chore - so you might as well make it something you enjoy - smoothies with raspberries and chocolate, oranges and chocolate.......... can you tell I have a thing for it too? Best wishes

It's a bit of a ways from you but the Mayo Clinic in Scottsdale would be a short air flight or a 12 or so hour drive perhaps. The bonus being it's a one stop shop btw. Phoenix and Scottsdale for all of the different disciplines involved in diagnosis and management of issues relating to POTS or dysautonomia....I saw Dr. B. Goodman and found him to be quite exceptional! He's a neurologist who knows about dysautonomia. Outside of him (whom I learned about here at Dinet) I would do searches on here and check out the lists provided....good luck to you and your family! I don't know if any of the other physicians in Scottsdales Mayo Clinic know about dysautonomia - so I'd wait for an appt. with Dr. Goodman - it could be worth the travel effort and expense.

Oh and he's ordered a biopsy as well - though I don't know what of - in the neurology department -- forgot to mention that.... Okay time to EAT......tomorrow is a day with mostly NOT eating.... Have a good evening everyone!

Got back from the Scottsdale Mayo Clinic and the first day was truly amazing in good ways. Dr. Brent Goodman has to be one of the most intelligent physicians I have had the pleasure to meet or work with (& I'm a nurse for 24 years!) He listened in spite of being busy - very patiently to my long story and different symptom groups.....and came up with a plan. I'll have testing over the next 3 or so days.... Some I'm not familiar with and some I am.... A glucose tolerance test - interesting I know what it is ... An MRI of the pelvis/hips because I am weak there Autonomic Reflex Testing ARS - not sure but I think it's a 2 part test? One being the quantitative sudomotor axon reflex test and the other measures heart rate and b/p while on a table that moves upright.... is that a tilt table test? A re-do of all my EMG's Endocrine Testing Nephrology consult for the labile B/P Repeat of rheumatology labs - maybe a consult if needed I was so stressed and destabilized by the last neuro telling me it was 'counseling' I needed to help with my fatigue - that I was pretty anxious about going today - and here it turns out he's simply marvelous........so smart! Mayo clinic was also today an amazing stream of efficiency and kindness all around......so we'll see how these next days go - EVEN if they find nothing - much good is done by being respected and cared for with professionalism and sincerity! I can't thank you all enough for the suggestion to see him!

Hi ~ Just had to laugh because as I typed yesterday about the EMG's - I just got ordered a re-do of all of mine - scheduled for tomorrow ....... so here we go again........ gotta 'be brave' and on we go!

Just as an aside - maybe you already know this - but up to 80 something percent of hypermobility syndrome patients or EDS patients have dysautonomia or POTS.... And the thing with that is - since it's a genetic collagen issue - and collagen is everywhere - a chunk of hypermobility syndrome patients get little or no relief with the normal doses and amounts of local anesthesia used for dental and other procedures. I guess the reasoning can be a few things - one I read is that the collagen matrix is different and so the amount of med injected or required is different somehow.......another thing was that the rate of absorption of the med into the tissues was thought to be far more rapid -- where it gets dumped into the blood stream and metabolized rather than sticking around to do it's job. So more injections are needed ..... & you can get that horrid feeling and heart palpitations, shakiness etc - when your system gets slammed with the lidocaine. I ended up in the ER by ambulance once from that happening at the dentist - scared the you know what out of everyone... The second time I experienced it was awful - I woke up from one of my knee replacement surgeries with what felt like zero pain relief. I'd had hip replacements before and did okay - but this was mind-blowing pain. The surgeon told me he loaded the knee up with local before he closed the surgery ... so my guess is that it just didn't work. So for the next knee I had the indwelling pain pump doing a femoral block - that was the cadillac of anesthesia for sure - and they gave me general too - while my other joints were with a spinal. So while not formally diagnosed with POTS yet - I do have the hypermobility syndrome -- for dental work I just do the local shots - as many as it takes....I make sure everyone in the place is on board with what had happened once before in another state..... & I think it's all been okay since........but I do get anxious - afraid I'll start that shaking thing.......but by the time I get truly upset about it all - the work is done. Blessings on whichever route you choose!

Just curious - how much does that TTT cost? I have a neuro appt. tomorrow & now wonder if such specific tests are ordered if I should ask the clinic to get approval for my testing first......it's at the Mayo in AZ....does asking for pre-approval get them upset? If you turn down a test because it's financially impossible (where you initially thought all the tests would be covered) = wow that could upset a doc I bet...... I've lived with medical debt for many years now - have written appeals etc....it can seem a full time job manageing it all at times = Happily though I've found docs to be pretty awesome in helping how they can.......had one group write off almost 900 dollars for anesthesia a few years back - then it seems the insurance company is getting sued and I'm entitled to reward - never mailed the papers in - but it was good to read it just the same - they were getting sued for denying claims = to the tune of 350 million minimal = poor insurance company (yeah right! lol) Best wishes for this to be resolved to your benefit

I've had them on 3 different occasions - my first was of my left arm and it was not uncomfortable at all. Next I had one of my right arm. It was lengthy and only a couple of portions were 'gonna hurt' but I was fully informed & told when to expect the 'owie' and truly compared to what life can offer in terms of pain....all I did was say a quiet ... low ... 'owie' and it was then overwith. The last one I had was for bilat. legs and low back. My doctor for this one made it easier with his sense of humor - telling me that "this is how we get you to talk.......this is how we learn your secrets"....... I told him I'd never tell him anything and he laughed and proceeded with the study. He had troubles with is equipment so I had an extra long uncomfortable part on my ankle area - but again even with that - I was just minorly annoyed. So for me it was definitely a two part study - only one part was the part with needles....but with caring clinicians I can say it was truly no big deal. If for some reason you have a phobia of needles or are extremely sensitive or have a low tolerance for little pricks here and there - it may cause some anxiety. I don't have any piercings or tatoos or the things that I would imagine to be very painful - it seems most of the world has those purely optional.......so this EMG to someone with tatoos would probably be a 'zero' on the discomfort scale lol! The arm EMG's I just sat down. The legs and back I had to lay on the docs table on my stomach.

ALL of you specifically are in my prayers for respite and peace, healing, renewed hope, pleasant surprises, energy out of nowhere, courage, and a palpable sense of worthiness, wellbeing, confidence, and love.......tons of love. I so pray for that surprising out of nowhere sense that things are 'okay' & things will improve around the corner......& that they most assuredly do improve for you. And improve within minutes or hours of me typing this. I pray you realize how exceptional you are and giving and courageous ~ and that others might refresh you and bring you joy ....... Whether it's POTS or some other obscure debilitating illness -- you are heroes in writing your hearts in this thread......showing all just how amazing you are - even and perhaps most especially here in your days agonies........ May sweet peace envelope you and keep you steady on your path seeking all that is good for you and those you hold dear.... I do very much care.

It would seem she should just do what she does when there are no friends around. Keep a phone at all times for emergencies ~ and do any or all the vasovagal maneuvers she was taught to do. You can bear down as if having a BM, you can put your face in cold water or an icy rag on your face.... I mean other than some simple techniques that the ER or cardiologist can teach - there should be no expectation for others to do anything aside from nurses or professional medical people.......I mean I guess I side with the school in this? - in that if the SVT isn't going to reverse with the simple techniques to get it back into sync - then as you know might have to go to the ER to get converted through medication in an IV or other forms - or advance life support techniques by skilled clinicians. Young people have a lot on their plate without being put upon with anothers possibly very frightening health issue that involves dysrhythmias.... BUT of course maybe I too do not understand exactly what it is you are doing and what it is you are expecting others to do - I'm all for helping another out - and especially someone with particular special health assisst needs - I just was worried that a young uneducated person that didn't know the game could get scared and could possible harm rather than help.......traumatize or become traumatized. Heart rates in the 2 and 3 hundreds are absolutely nothing to fool around with as you know.... Hope it all goes smoothly - maybe you just need to clarify and educate and get documentation from her doctors as to what to do...

Hmmmm......... I truly thank you - all that wrote about this. I know I did read 2 posts a week or so ago that made reference to brain fog related to the way a POT's symptom person moves and pools blood........but I gather it wasn't you guys....... Maybe yes it's only briefly when the person hasn't yet been able to make their way to lying flat.....I do have to do that a lot........I literally as many of you have to break the day up into little thirds or so .... activity......lay down........activity.........lay down........for two years -- out of the blue.... Sigh........ Yes Issie I guess we are the EDS piece of this perhaps......... I'll have to get researching more before I get to Mayo to see if I can see what differential diagnosis include these weird findings that might fit........ Maybe they'll do a sleep study there and see if I'm ischemic from some kind of apnea issue ... tho it would surprise me...... but maybe most single people are surprised about apnea cuz no one can hear their issue lol.... Well I guess the good news is that you guys have good healthy brains..........and when you feel like you do with PoT's etc......anything at all that's normal on exam is a blessing ... Continued healing and peaceful days and nights to each of you and thanks again so much!

Good Morning everyone.... I've been paying attention to the posts here lately that talk about how dysautonomia blood flow is/can be less than optimal due to pooling in different places/spaces in the body....... But I lack a basic understanding...... Is it enough that the brain would actually perhaps suffer some ischemic changes? I'm not yet diagnosed - but hope to be soon -- for a unique set of symptoms that came after back to back knee replacements. If I had to guess - I believe I have the hyper adrenergic type symptom group with orthostatic hypertension......a baseline hypertension as well -- and a labile b/p - with prolonged standing I get dips in blood pressure with dizziness. My MRI states Several punctate foci of increased signal present within the juxtacortical white matter of both the frontal lobes as well as within the anteriour aspect of the left parietal lobe. None of these enhance nor show mass effect, edema, or restricted diffusion. They are extremely nonspecific in nature. Differential considerations include postischemic, post infectious/inflammatory, and posttraumatic etiologies. Although dysmyelinating disorders and vasculitis are in this differential they would be considered much less likely. From my limited perspective it sounds like they are not so much worried about MS though it's a very remote possibility. Personally I have no recollection of any brain injury, and I have no autoimmune or inflammatory diagnosis on board - nor have I ever suffered with some kind of known encephalitis of brain affected infection. So that leaves ischemia. I guess hypertension could fit in there some how? Or my age is 53 - maybe that? Or maybe my blood pools and leaves my brain starving for more oxygen? My mental functioning since the surgeries includes me becoming very upset and irritable at losing everything I touch. I lose everything and I have trouble remembering, focusing and concentrating.....I rarely read anymore and have lost interest in a lot of fun recreation activities. I can live with it - and have to loss proof my house -- I always have to keep vigilant to not forget or lose important things....And when I do - well I do the St. Anthony prayer! Tony, Tony look around.....something's lost and must be found! <=== Catholic upbringing for sure ;-) Thanks in advance for any insights you may have - any anecdotal incidents/insights you share will be valuable! nowwhat! :-)

Last year my heart rate would be 140 from minimal activity -- I was really bad then.........it kinda tapered to an average of 100 per holter a couple mos. back. But now on Bystolic it's in the 50's -- but I can get it up over a hundred with exercise ... but never really over 150. So for those of you posting with these hellish high heart rates and all the symptoms with it -- Are you on any beta blockers or any meds? If you are does that mean your body - even with say an almost pure alpha adrenergic blocking med like Bystolic - still run high? I am between a rock and hard place with b/p too high as a baseline -- then add to that hypertension with standing and such.........but if I stand toooooo long then it crashes low.... If I treat the tachycardia then I treat the high b/p too -- yet too much of a good thing and then I can't get out of bed without issues...... So I suspect pooling of blood in my legs or trunk perhaps with prolonged standing ... and the med I'm on is so far the best they can do to keep me between the ditches....but even so with a tyny dose I'm having to titrate to symptoms........now I find I perhaps had a stroke and have ischemic brain changes.......maybe from dysautonomia and an oxygen hungry blood low brain? Dunno I have an MRI in the morning........at least I'll be laying down LOL!

One of the neuro docs I saw whom I did not care for got all huffy about my proclamation of supposed dysautonomia. She said, 'so what if you have it? It's just a word to use like "fever".......so you have a fever - but it's what's causing it that's important'............. To which I said....well up to 81 percent of patients with hypermobility syndrome or eDS have it - so I would assume that might be a likely cause of mine. To which she said......'fine then I don't treat it except if it's from what I'm familiar with - MS and so on." She looked at my cardiac studies and said yes you have it but I don't treat it... She gave me the creeps.