Standing/upright MRI

[Sea otter]

Is someone familiar with standing/upright MRI? I know laying version of MRI has nothing to do with POTS, what about standing version? I am just curious. 

[MomtoGiuliana]

Here's a past discussion that may help?

Standup Mri - Dysautonomia Discussion - Dysautonomia Information Network (DINET)

 

[Jyoti]

I had an upright MRI in neutral, flexion and extension in order to look at cranio-cervical (CCI) and atlanto-axial instability (AAI).  Most of the neurosurgeons who address these conditions (which seem to be causative of a sub-set of ME/CFS) do prefer the upright MRI --I think because it is possible to see the spinal structures in the circumstance where there is most pressure put upon them--and thus see brainstem compression. With flexion and extension, they can measure relationships between structures and again look at what might be compressing critical neurological activity.  

While this is not directly related to POTS, there are sometimes very important connections between POTS symptoms and cervical anatomy.  It also would serve to rule out that kind of mechanical basis if the MRI did not find any anomalies.  

My POTS started with whiplash and a concussion, so I had strong reason to suspect that something in my neck was responsible for--at least--the initiation of dysautonomia.  And I have had occasion to have an Atlas Orthogonal adjustment that made me 100% well.  For about four hours.  So...while I haven't found the solution (I wish!) I do know that my atlas is unstable and putting it back in place relieves my POTS in toto.  Can't figure out how to keep it there, but it is worth knowing and the upright MRI might give you some useful info as well. 

If you haven't, check out Jeff Wood's story here: https://www.mechanicalbasis.org/mystory  He had POTS prior to cervical fusion and is an advocate of upright MRIs!

[Ranga]

19 hours ago, Jyoti said:

I had an upright MRI in neutral, flexion and extension in order to look at cranio-cervical (CCI) and atlanto-axial instability (AAI).  Most of the neurosurgeons who address these conditions (which seem to be causative of a sub-set of ME/CFS) do prefer the upright MRI --I think because it is possible to see the spinal structures in the circumstance where there is most pressure put upon them--and thus see brainstem compression. With flexion and extension, they can measure relationships between structures and again look at what might be compressing critical neurological activity.  

While this is not directly related to POTS, there are sometimes very important connections between POTS symptoms and cervical anatomy.  It also would serve to rule out that kind of mechanical basis if the MRI did not find any anomalies.  

My POTS started with whiplash and a concussion, so I had strong reason to suspect that something in my neck was responsible for--at least--the initiation of dysautonomia.  And I have had occasion to have an Atlas Orthogonal adjustment that made me 100% well.  For about four hours.  So...while I haven't found the solution (I wish!) I do know that my atlas is unstable and putting it back in place relieves my POTS in toto.  Can't figure out how to keep it there, but it is worth knowing and the upright MRI might give you some useful info as well. 

If you haven't, check out Jeff Wood's story here: https://www.mechanicalbasis.org/mystory  He had POTS prior to cervical fusion and is an advocate of upright MRIs!

@Jyotithis is good to know. Do they do both an upright and a supine MRI? My issues seem to occur mostly when supine. 

I am seeing an Ortho for my shoulder and I was wondering if I could ask him to have MRIs done. In general, I hear a lot of clicking grinding in my joints, and I wonder if it's poor tendon/ligaments that causes these joints to go out of alignment.

 

 

[Jyoti]

51 minutes ago, Ranga said:

Do they do both an upright and a supine MRI? My issues seem to occur mostly when supine. 

 

It's much easier to get a scrip for a supine MRI and a LOT easier to find a facility that does them.  Like all of them.  Whereas the upright is really if you suspect Chiari or CCI I think.  And it is pretty hard to find facilities that have the right machines to do uprights.  Probably best to ask your ortho what he thinks might be the most useful?  Where do you hear the grinding and clicking?  What joints?  Or is it all of them?

54 minutes ago, Ranga said:

I wonder if it's poor tendon/ligaments that causes these joints to go out of alignment

Me too.  If it is, if hyper mobility of some sort is involved, then you might indeed want to look at an upright.  Obviously when you are lying flat, your bones just stay where they are, but if the ligaments are loose, then they don't hold the vertebrae properly when you move, and that is what an upright can spot.  You know what else-a CT with rotation might also catch that.  

[Ranga]

6 minutes ago, Jyoti said:

Where do you hear the grinding and clicking?  What joints?  Or is it all of them?

Grinding is in my neck mainly. Clicking is pretty much in all joints - neck, shoulder, elbow, wrist, finger, hips, knees, ankles.

Some days like this week, it's worse and I have observed more lightheadedness, disorientation, more diastolic BP fluctuation on the lower side. I am also having upper back pain  around the ribs along the spine pain like a muscle catch/pull.

 

 

[MikeO]

40 minutes ago, Ranga said:

Grinding is in my neck mainly. Clicking is pretty much in all joints - neck, shoulder, elbow, wrist, finger, hips, knees, ankles.

Some days like this week, it's worse and I have observed more lightheadedness, disorientation, more diastolic BP fluctuation on the lower side. I am also having upper back pain  around the ribs along the spine pain like a muscle catch/pull.

if you are going thru this i would agree its time for some imaging.

[Ranga]

1 hour ago, DysautonmiaMatt said:

An upper cervical chiropractor, at least 2 of them I know of, can order a MRI while standing. One doc is in Co and other is in FL. Others in other states maybe able to order it.

I will check with my chiropractor. Thanks.

[Sea otter]

Thank you all for your responses. We don't have upright MRI in country where I am coming from. I heard about it, and was curious about that. Thanks again. 

[Sea otter]

On 11/27/2022 at 10:36 PM, MomtoGiuliana said:

Here's a past discussion that may help?

Standup Mri - Dysautonomia Discussion - Dysautonomia Information Network (DINET)

 

Thank you.

[Sea otter]

On 11/28/2022 at 1:06 AM, Jyoti said:

I had an upright MRI in neutral, flexion and extension in order to look at cranio-cervical (CCI) and atlanto-axial instability (AAI).  Most of the neurosurgeons who address these conditions (which seem to be causative of a sub-set of ME/CFS) do prefer the upright MRI --I think because it is possible to see the spinal structures in the circumstance where there is most pressure put upon them--and thus see brainstem compression. With flexion and extension, they can measure relationships between structures and again look at what might be compressing critical neurological activity.  

While this is not directly related to POTS, there are sometimes very important connections between POTS symptoms and cervical anatomy.  It also would serve to rule out that kind of mechanical basis if the MRI did not find any anomalies.  

My POTS started with whiplash and a concussion, so I had strong reason to suspect that something in my neck was responsible for--at least--the initiation of dysautonomia.  And I have had occasion to have an Atlas Orthogonal adjustment that made me 100% well.  For about four hours.  So...while I haven't found the solution (I wish!) I do know that my atlas is unstable and putting it back in place relieves my POTS in toto.  Can't figure out how to keep it there, but it is worth knowing and the upright MRI might give you some useful info as well. 

If you haven't, check out Jeff Wood's story here: https://www.mechanicalbasis.org/mystory  He had POTS prior to cervical fusion and is an advocate of upright MRIs!

Thank you for sharing your experience.