Vitamin B5 Deficiency Causes Hypotension.

[beggiatoa]

I was reading a monograph of vitamin B5 or pantothenic acid. You can read it here. Among the many symptoms caused by a mild deficiency, orthostatic hypotention was one of them. B5 is needed to make acetyl coa. Acetyl coa together with choline make acetylcholine (Ach). This is the main neurotransmitter in the autonomic nervous system. Low Ach levels lead to hypotonia, hypotension, weakness, etc. Mestinon works by increasing levels of Ach so you get the idea.

B5 is found is most b complex supplements but in small doses but higher, therapeutic doses may work in this case. Other symptoms of low B5 can include dry eyes, hair falling out, weakness, adrenal fatigue, exercise intolerance, low muscle tone, etc.

I used 1 gram this morning and I can feel an increase in muscle tone and concentration. I usually have problems with both. Anyone else try this ?

[beggiatoa]

There is one study I found that can lead evidence. It's a little hard to read but essentially, they used SART-stressed mice as a model of dysautonomia and then tested the effects of of a pantothenic acid derivate called hopantenate. They found this drug effective in treating the mice.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=dysautonomia%20pantothenic

"SART stressed animals have been reported to exhibit a decreased acetylcholine content" These chronically stressed animals with dysautonomia also implies some sort of adrenal dysfunction, which Vitamin B5 can also treat.

"Hopantenate has been shown to exert its improvable effect on scopolamine-induced impairment in the passive avoidance task, and it is suggested that the effect may be due to activating the cholinergic system via the GABAergic system"

[sue1234]

This is interesting. Way back when my POTS first started, I read up alot on what vitamins and minerals do in the body, trying to see if I could link my symptoms to possible deficiencies. I saw B5 was linked to low adrenals, but then read that it was almost impossible to have a deficiency because it is found in almost all foods, or alot of them. So, I kind of ignored that possibility.

BUT, and this sounds strange, I always wondered if my shampoo was making me not have energy...I had used Pantene for MANY years before POTS, and quit using it. It, of course, is based on pantothenic acid. I know it sounds dumb, but I always wondered if it could have messed with my levels of B5.

I know, really sounds dumb! But, you never know! If there is a test for it, I would like to take it. I've had most of my other B vitamin levels tested.

[sue1234]

Kind of funny, when you read about B5 deficiency. One of the first things you run into when googling it is "gray hair". I began turning gray when I was 29!

[beggiatoa]

If anything, I would think it would help with the POTS. By the way, I came across this research while seeing how B5 helps hair. How wwas the shampoo ? lol

[sue1234]

It was great shampoo! I guess what I was figuring was, because I used it for many years, maybe it affected how my body used the pantothenic acid. Maybe I was absorbing it and my body "turned" something off so as not to have too much. Who knows!

[beggiatoa]

I was looking over some of the posts here and some of the same problems keep coming up:

-Burning hands and feet of tingling in the legs and arms

-Emotional lability (crying for no reason)

-intolerance to cold temperature

-GI problems

-memory problems

These were all listed as symptoms of B5 deficiency in the monograph I posted above. What's even more interesting is that B5 is contraindicated with the use of mestinon because it can raise the levels of acetylcholine too high when combined. If they both do the same thing, I'd rather use the vitamin and not the expensive medication that comes with side effects !

[Dizzysillyak]

Thanks for posting this. Can you tell us which one you're using and why ? I want to give this a try.

[beggiatoa]

I'm using d-calcium pantothenate. Started off with a gram and will increase the dose to tolerance. I'm using it to increase acetylcholine production which I think it's working well. Haven't measured my BP yet but I have noticed that I can go longer without food without feeling hungry like some studies proposed.

[beggiatoa]

1 gram a day seems like it's too much. I'm getting some muscle tension and it's interfering with sleep. Going to decrease the dose to 500 mg per day.

[Dizzysillyak]

Hi again,

I bought source naturals pantethine because I wanted the active form of pantothenic acid.

Twice now, I've noticed that the active forms help me more than inactive. Adenosyl cobalamin, b12,

(improved muscle strength) and P5P, b6, (increased energy) ... I really should look at more of these. I had

to stop both of these after a month or so tho because they interferred with my sleep.

I just took 150 mg a few minutes ago so it may take awhile to notice a difference. I felt better within

20 min to an hour after taking the active forms before tho ...I'll let you know.

I noticed you started with a gram but said it was too much. fwuw I always start with a low dose to avoid

Liver, gi or kidney problem. My bottle recommends taking this 3 times a day.

Thanks again

[sue1234]

Y'all keep us up-to-date with how it affects you-hoping it shows some kind of promise!

[Dizzysillyak]

1 gram a day seems like it's too much. I'm getting some muscle tension and it's interfering with sleep. Going to decrease the dose to 500 mg per day.

I have some new bodywide muscle pain too from only taking 150 mgs yesterday and today. Any ideas why ?

I'm already taking magnesium citrate but will take mag glycinate as well. I'd take malate but I ran out ...

Are we having fun yet ? ; ) .. Tc . D

[Dizzysillyak]

I guess the mag glycinate stopped the pain cause it went away this am after taking it and again this

afternoon after my second dose of b5 brought back the pain. I took 1 doctor's best high absorption

100% chelated magnesium each time. On the back it's says it's magnesium (elemental) from 2000 mg mag glycinate / lysinate .. It's a small bottle and very hard to read.

I wasn't as hungry today either but it could also be that I stopped eating so many carbs. I think it's the b5

though cause I'm normally hungry regardless ..

Oh and I made it to the beach today too. I mostly rested but I'm definitely feeling better.

So far so good ..

[beggiatoa]

The B5 will increase acetylcholine levels which will have an effect on muscle tone. My experience was similar. I had some muscle tension at first but overall my muscle tone has improved. With this, I went to the gym and my strength was up in most of my lifts. I normally go 3 times per week. Better muscle contration = better strength.

Dizzysillyak,

You are very good at listening to your body. It most probably is the B5. The was a study showing that B5 favors the burning of stored fats over producing ketone bodies. They tested this on some chinese volunteers and gave them 1000 calorie diets plus a lot of B5. They all stated no feelings of hunger at all despite losing weight. I've noticed the same also. For the last couple of days, I've had my first meal of the day around 5 pm or so. I'm also trying to lose weight at the moment so I'm happy this is helping.

By the way, it wasn't the B5 that was interfering with my sleep, it was something else I'm taking.

[beggiatoa]

Here's that study on Obesity I was talking about.

http://en.wikipedia....ic_acid#Obesity

In a report published in 1997 by Lit-Hung Leung,^{[34][unreliable source?]} it was hypothesized that pantothenic acid also has an effect on weight management. Leung proposed that those who were deficient in pantothenic acid would feel the effects of hunger and weakness more strongly. To access fat storages in the body in times of fasting or dieting requires CoA. Diets high in pantothenic acid produce more CoA.^{[citation needed]} In a study done on 100 Chinese individuals from age range 15–55 it was observed that on a diet of 1000 calories a day and 10 g pantothenic acid, the dieters could lose on average 1.2 kg/week with lessened effects from hunger or weakness.^{[citation needed]} Ketone bodies in urine indicated that some dieters required more than 10 g of pantothenic acid a day. The possibilities of pantothenic acid in weight management have not been fully explored, but remain an area of research.

Pantothenic acid as a weight-reducing agent: fasting without hunger, weakness and ketosis.

Leung LH.

Source

Department of General Surgery, Hong Kong Central Hospital.

Abstract

With the conventional method of fasting or aggressive dieting to reduce excess body fat, hunger, weakness, ketogenesis and ketosis are the sequential events that follow. It is not fully understood why, under conditions of negative calorie balance where complete energy release from storage fat is critical, ketosis should arise with a concomitant wastage of energy. Here, I wish to propose a theory that relates the formation of ketone bodies under such conditions to a deficiency in dietary pantothenic acid. Supplementation of this vitamin would facilitate complete catabolism of fatty acids and thus the formation of ketone bodies could be circumvented. As a result, a sufficient amount of energy would be released from storage fat to relieve dieters of the sensation of hunger and weakness which otherwise would be difficult to endure. Hence, using this method for weight reduction together with a careful observation of calorie intake, I have great success in treating overweight-to-obese patients to lose weight. PMID:8583972 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[beggiatoa]

There is another vitamin that I find equally as interesting as B5. That is vitamin C. I was going to write another post for it but might as well keep it all here. It was mentioned before in this post by ramakentesh and waterbaby mentioned how helpful it was for her in another one of his posts. She is right. Sue1234 also theorized that Vitamin C may be involved in Dysautonomia because of all the related connective tissue problems that are seen in this post.

Vitamin C has a interesting action in potentiating the effect of norepineprhine in the body. It binds to NE and helps it attach to its receptor more strongly. But, vitamin C wont make you feel better by itself ! If you already have low levels of NE it wont do much. It'll probably work better when you combine with other vitamins that increase norepinephrine like thiamine, pantothenic acid and B12. You also need about 2 grams of vitamin c per dose to fully saturate the body.

Antioxidant-independent ascorbate enhancement of catecholamine-induced contractions of vascular smooth muscle.

Dillon PF, Root-Bernstein RS, Lieder CM.

Source

Dept. of Physiology, Michigan State University, East Lansing, MI 48824, USA. Dillon@msu.edu

Abstract

Ascorbate reduces the oxidation rate of catecholamines and, by an independent mechanism, enhances rabbit aortic ring contractions initiated by catecholamines. The largest significantly different fractional increases in force produced by ascorbate enhancement of norepinephrine (NE), epinephrine, phenylpropanolamine (PPA), and ephedrine (Eph) are 5.5, 1.8, 1.6, and 1.3 times, respectively. In physiological salt solutions bubbled with 95% O(2) at 37 degrees C, NE, PPA, and Eph have oxidation rate constants of 1.24, 247, and 643 h, respectively. Ascorbate significantly enhances 100 nM NE contractions by at least twofold at all ascorbate concentrations >15 microM, including the entire physiological range of 40-100 microM. Ascorbate preloading and washout followed by NE exposure produces significantly greater contractions than NE without ascorbate preloading but significantly lower than NE simultaneously with ascorbate. Ascorbate does not enhance K(+)- or angiotensin II-induced contractions. Ascorbate enhancement of catecholamine contractions occurs in addition to the reduction in oxidation rate, because the increases in force occur faster than oxidation can occur, the increases occur with compounds that have negligible oxidation rates, and the increases occur when ascorbate and NE are not physically present together. These results are consistent with ascorbate acting on the adrenergic receptor. Ascorbate may play a role in shock and asthma treatments and potentiate the cardiovascular health consequences of PPA and Eph (Ephedra).

The full study is available if anyone wants to read it. Ascorbate works so well that it makes ephedrine toxic when combined. Ephedrine potently increases norepinephrine levels.

Waterbaby did a really good job in covering the effect of B1 in this post. B1 works together with pantothenic acid in increasing acetylcholine. Acetylcholine will then stimulate the release of norepinephrine. But again, B1 wont work alone. I think the combination thiamin, pantothenic acid, vitamin C and b12 is more effective !

[Dizzysillyak]

Hi again,

Isn't the first post on this thread saying that it's coenzyme a that we are trying to get more of ?

And we need pantethine to join with choline in order for our bodies to produce this. I'm sure there's more

to this but that's what I got so far.

I was eating raw egg yolks (choline) but stopped because I had antibodies to egg whites once and was thinking I'm probably intolerant of the yolks too. I started eating these again today .. I want to find a choline or acetylcholine I can take but I keep seeing soy in them .. I'm allergic to soy.

There is certainly a long list of nutrients we could need but it's taking me forever to get through all of

them. Vitamin c is thought to be a problem for anyone with oxalate issues. Fwiw tho, I'm beginning

to understand that these oxalate issues may themselves be from a nutritional deficiency. Magnesium and

or calcium can bind to oxalates and help some people pass them. And magnesium + b6 can help break them up. Be careful tho .. This can deplete zinc. Then there's the

good bacteria / oxalate angle ...

My head is spinning, so I'm on the right track .. Lol ... I have no idea how anyone decided how all these chemicals work or inter-relate ... It seems like an impossible task since the roles of our genes, enzymes, peptides, etc can't be evaluated at the same time.

Forgot to say that I'm taking 300mg three times a day now. I skipped the mag glycinate this am to see if I need it still.

I really can't say that I've noticed any improvement in my oh but I've been in a flare lately. I started having digestive issues / gastrparesis / constipation two months ago and have been experimenting with mag citrate. I think too much mag

have at times made my oh and pots / tachycardia worse.

Hopefully others will try this so we can get better feedback .. Tc . D

[beggiatoa]

Here's another interesting tid bit. It seems that increasing co A also increases aldosterone. I got curious after taking 1 gram of B5 today and noticed how I wasn't thirsty at all. In fact, I had to remind myself to drink water. I can normally drink gallons everyday without feeling quenced. There was no abstract but the title made it clear enough.

Acetyl coenzyme A requirement for the stimulation of sodium transport by aldosterone.

[RichGotsPots]

B5 is found in most foods, has anyone tested deficient in it? Could be our bodies aren't absorbing it and vitamins supplements wouldn't help. Natural sources are usually the best way. Even if our bodies have enough maybe they aren't using it correctly, maybe something is blocking the natural use of it..?

[beggiatoa]

B5 is found in most foods, has anyone tested deficient in it? Could be our bodies aren't absorbing it and vitamins supplements wouldn't help. Natural sources are usually the best way. Even if our bodies have enough maybe they aren't using it correctly, maybe something is blocking the natural use of it..?

As far as the why, I have no idea but my body seems to be functioning better with extra B5. I read a lot of studies on pubmed. One study I came across referring to nutritional deficiencies said that there could be some kind of genetic mutation that predisposes the patient to require more of a certain nutrient. This is all speculation though. I've had low muscle tone for a long time. I remember people touching me and telling me how I had "soft muscles". The problem got worse in my 30's where it started affecting my respiratory muscles and I started having shortness of breath. 2010 was a bad year for me but the shortness of breath is finally gone and I think these nutritional interventions have helped.

[Dizzysillyak]

Hi..I.m still doing this too. I know it suppresses my appetite but I don't think it affected my thirst.

I'm a celiac tho and probably have solute transporter damage still. I have a pubmed article on this website about

celiac and solute transporters.

Btw .. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. Threads like this are good at making me think .. : )

In my experience so far, there are certain nutrients I'm

not going to get from food no matter how healthy I eat. Maybe, my digestive tract has too much damage.

There are factors involvdd in breaking down nutrients that some people are missing . Intrinsic factor

comes to mind ..

Tc .. D

[beggiatoa]

Not to go off topic Dizzy, but have you considered using triphala for your celiacs related complication ? It's great stuff !

[Dizzysillyak]

Thanks .. I appreciate the help.

I googled it and it looks like it may have too much vitamin c for me. Vitamin c is a problem for anyone with an oxalate problem. I think I have a handle on detoxing too tho. I'm a pain, but I know it so that makes it ok .. Lol ..

My celiac problem is that my villi get damaged with gluten and it appears to be impossible for me

to completely avoid it. I need a lot of calories to keep me functional due to hypoglycemia / petite mals, so I always end up with some food, or supplement, that even tho it's labelled gf, it might be cross contaminated.

Tc .. D

[beggiatoa]

Magnesium also increases noradrenaline. Higher doses seem to work better.

http://www.ergo-log.com/magnesiumlackofsleep.html