Study On Hypovolemia, Diabetes And Oh

[Dizzysillyak]

Hi All,

Many of us with Dysautonomia have problems with chronic dehydration (which would cause hypovolemia) and blood glucose regulation(whether it's high or low), this may explain the relationship ... I'm still trying to understand it all ... tc ... d

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002934398003672

Hypovolemia contributes to the pathogenesis of orthostatic hypotension in patients with diabetes mellitus

Kurt Laederach-Hofmann MDa, , a, Peter Weidmann MDa, a, Paolo Ferrari MDa

Received 17 March 1998; revised 4 September 1998; Accepted 4 September 1998. Available online 9 February 1999.

Abstract

PURPOSE: To investigate whether body sodium content and blood volume contribute to the pathogenesis of orthostatic hypotension in patients with diabetes mellitus.

SUBJECTS AND METHODS: Exchangeable sodium, plasma and blood volumes, and catecholamine, renin, and aldosterone levels were assessed in 10 patients with Type II diabetes mellitus who had orthostatic hypotension and control groups of 40 diabetic patients without orthostatic hypotension and 40 normal subjects of similar age and sex.

In subgroups, clinical tests of autonomic function and cardiovascular reactivity to norepinephrine and angiotensin II infusions were performed.

RESULTS: In diabetic patients with orthostatic hypotension, mean (± SD) supine blood pressure was 165/98 ± 27/12 mm Hg (P <0.05 compared with other groups) and mean upright blood pressure was 90/60 ± 38/18 mm Hg.

Compared with controls, diabetic patients with orthostatic hypotension had a 10% lower blood volume. They also had less exchangeable sodium than patients with diabetes who did not have orthostatic hypotension (P <0.01).

Compared with both groups of controls, diabetic patients with orthostatic hypotension had decreased 24-hour urinary norepinephrine excretion and a reduced diastolic blood pressure response to handgrip (P <0.05).

Moreover, they displayed reduced products of exchangeable sodium or blood volume and sympathetic function indexes.

Cardiovascular pressor reactivity to norepinephrine was enhanced (P <0.01) and beat-to-beat variation decreased (P <0.01) in both groups of diabetic patients.

Microvascular complications were more prevalent in the diabetic patients with orthostatic hypotension (90% vs 35%).

CONCLUSIONS: Patients who have Type II diabetes mellitus and orthostatic hypotension are hypovolemic and have sympathoadrenal insufficiency; both factors contribute to the pathogenesis of orthostatic hypotension.

[sue1234]

This is interesting. Wish I could have read the whole thing, as I'd like to see what they are talking about regarding the sodium thing. I kind of suspected that diabetics have a lower blood volume, as they tend to lose fluid to rid the body of glucose. But, as I stated in an earlier post, I'm curious how our glucose issues relate to others that have glucose issues, such as diabetics. We don't quite match up with them, but something is going on wrong with our glucose metabolism.

[Dizzysillyak]

Hi sue,

I think the link is blood glucose too. Possibly purely from insulin.

There.s a new study out that show using insulin nasal spray helps alzheimer's ...

I can.t give the link but googling insulin alzheimer's wil get it.

Tc .. D

Ps. I have a freind with diabetes who can go many hours without a bathroom break so I.m not sure that they.re losing fluids like we are.

Actually, I stopped going all the time after treating with azo but I was still dehydrated when I was salt loading and just drinking water.

[sue1234]

I did read up earlier this week on the insulin/Alzheimer's link. When I saw it on the news, it really piqued my interest.

When I mentioned diabetics losing fluid, I should have clarified meaning undiagnosed diabetics that aren't on any meds to control sugar levels. When they are no longer spilling glucose into the urine, there is no need for the body to lose all that fluid.

We sure do lose alot of fluid. Everytime I do a 24-hour urine, I fill up 3500 mls. in the container. Even Dr. Oz the other day said that 2000 mls. is normal for the normal person. Fluid just doesn't seem to make it into my cells.

[Guest maia]

This is very interesting. I have had sugar issues for decades that no one has looked into really. I used to be hypo -had 3'gtt's with spilled sugar and all glucose levls low but in a correct curve- and craved sugar AND salt. Then while on fludro i spiked within 10 minutes of taking any sugars-felt horrible and often was panting and forced sleeping. If i could stay awake and check it, within 30 minutes it was back down to normal. I pee'd constantly on the fludro and couldnt stay hydrated despite salt loading. I swear it either made me diabetic or maybe exacerbated something like diabetes that i already had/have. I had another 3'gtt and asked if they would test at 15 minutes in addition to the 30 but they balked because there is apparently no starndardized result for 15 minutes. I also passed out 5 minutes after drinking it-and was out cold for at least 3 hours after so im pretty sure they didnt do the 15. I was told after that the results were normal and the the spilling was to be expected so im still at a loss. Im still staying away from carbs and sugar until someone looks into this.

[Dizzysillyak]

Hi sue,

now that I think about it i've never met a diabetic who actually had their glucose under control with diet, exercise, nd insulin. I thought it would be impossible to control unless they really watched what they ate since activity plays such a large roll in glucose utilization.

That.s interesting that you don.t think you.re holding fluids. I.m on a magnesium citrate / veggie detox and the excess fluid in my skin / body is going down fast. Do you take magnesium ?

Hi Maia,

Can you do me a favor and use more paragraph ? I have trouble reading .. Thanks

if you didn't get a copy of your gtt, you may want to. my numbers weren't that low either but my doc told me that I was hypoglycemic .. I was so pale and weak when I showed up at the lab that they had to call my doc to make sure they could run the test.

A gtt + insulin showed that I overproduce insulin which causes hypoglycemia.

Drugs.com has some interesting side effects listed for florinef.

Tc .. D

[sue1234]

I get magnesium via Milk of Magnesia. I take it probably 5x a week.

[Dizzysillyak]

I read that on wiki that m of m can cause dehydration. I thought I read last week that hydroxide draws the fluid into the gut, but I just read on wiki that mag does that too.

Wiki and others also says that this type of mag is poorly absorbed. Mag citrate and a couple of other forms are better absorbed. The one with malate is supposed to be good for pain.

I'm taking the citrate form with low dose b6 because the combo has been shown to help autistic kids. The first time I heard this was on the tryinglowoxalate board and was recommended for lowering oxalates.

And I'm taking the one with malate.

I just started this to treat chronic constipation and slow motility ... I'm working on the right dose for me because it's working but sometimes too well ...

[sue1234]

I have tried EVERY thing to keep my bowels moving, and MofM was the only thing that worked. I have no other alternatives. It is not the cause of my POTS, as that began 5 years ago, and I just started MofM last year. It is the only thing that keeps me breathing freely. Otherwise I bloat waaayy to much.

I don't do well on the other types of Mg++ that you actually absorb. I've tried different kinds over the last 10 years, and they all make me have involuntary esophageal spasms. Very annoying. None seemed to help the bowels.

[Dizzysillyak]

Yikes .. esophageal spams sound painful. I was just thinking this may contribute to your dehydration / over urination problem. I.ll let you know if the mags I.m taking increase my urine output. So far it's just keeping things moving and reduced the inflamation in my skin.

This puzzle never ends does it ?

[sue1234]

Nope, it never does.