Advil Helping Symptoms???

[Ashelton80]

Hi all, I am on the tail end of a really bad cold/flu virus not sure which one. All I know is I was writhing in aches/pain, high fever, congestion and a really sore throat. All I could think to take was Advil to try and get my fever down since my resting heartrate was 110. My resting rate has never been that high before. I took the ibuprofen for 3 days and although I felt bad with the "sickness" part of it, my POTS symptoms were much better. Strange? The first thing was the chest pain was gone. Now this makes sense to me because advil is an anti-inflammatory and I'm sure my sharp chest pain is probably costochronditis and chest wall inflammation. It also seem to calm down my shortness of breath and "air hunger". Not sure the mechanism behind this one. Any ideas?

Has anyone else experienced this? Could this just be systemic inflammation? I know when I have taken stuff like cell food, greens first and monavie these have all helped as well. They are all anti-oxidant/anti-inflammation type products. They take longer to notice a difference, but the advil I noticed right away. Maybe I'll pop an advil everyday if it helps and hope my stomach can tolerate it.

[TXPOTS]

Advil can also cause sodium and fluid retention which may be helpful in some POTS patients. Of course, it is not a long term solution due to GI effects, unless recommended and monitored by a physician. You also should be aware of rebound pain which may occur when over the counter pain meds are taken regularly and then suddenly stopped.

[sue1234]

That's interesting. I wouldn't know how it works enough to even make a guess as to why it helps, but, hey, we'll take it any way we can get it!!! I would eat tree bark if they told me it would get rid of my POTS!

[Lenna]

I have a very different theory about Advil. It also helps my son. Ibuprofen is a vasodilator http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibuprofen. I have reason to believe that my son is vasoconstricted - that he has "low flow" POTS - and I think the Advil helps his blood circulate better because it opens up his arteries and blood vessels. Sadly, it's not a good thing for your GI system to take in sufficient doses every day. Simply taking one Advil a day does not help him - he needs a larger dose.

[Ashelton80]

I have a very different theory about Advil. It also helps my son. Ibuprofen is a vasodilator http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibuprofen. I have reason to believe that my son is vasoconstricted - that he has "low flow" POTS - and I think the Advil helps his blood circulate better because it opens up his arteries and blood vessels. Sadly, it's not a good thing for your GI system to take in sufficient doses every day. Simply taking one Advil a day does not help him - he needs a larger dose.

Thank you for your response!! I never thought of it in that aspect. I was only thinking in inflammation terms, but that would make sense as well. I just always thought I needed more constriction since when I get out in the heat (which is a vasodilator) I get VERY symptomatic and my heartrate will skyrocket. As soon as I jump in the pool and my legs cool off my heartrate will come down immediately. Maybe it is a less drastic vasodilation action with the advil versus the heat and that is why I was handling it well. Interesting! I know it's not a long term solution, but I could use it for a bit to try and get some things accomplished. I was getting this benefit with a very low dose of 200 mg every 10 hours or so. Probably because I only weigh about 113 pounds and I rarely take pain relievers. Thanks for your help!!!

[TXPOTS]

Where's the reference for ibuprofen as a vasodilator? Didn't see that, though I did notice a reference for an off label use in orthostatic hypotension.

It is used in caution in patients with uncontrolled hypertension due to the risk of increasing blood pressure due to sodium retaining properties. Prostaglandins, which ibuprofen inhibit production of, are potent local vasodilators. So, we are inhibiting this response locally. Ibuprofen may increase blood flow due to temporary inhibition of platelet function. I would not consider the blood thinning properties synonymous with vasodilation, since the net effect of ibuprofen may be an increase in blood pressure. It is an interesting thought though. I have felt better on fish oil which can also thin the blood at a certain dose. I have been labeled as "low flow" POTS, as well as hypovolemic POTS if we put stock in the various subgroups.

Sue,

You crack me up! Any leads on the nutcracker syndrome? I follow how you are doing because our symptoms are so similar.

[Lenna]

Here is one reference; it's wikipedia, which I know isn't always reliable...but I've read it on other sites as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibuprofen

Ibuprofen (INN) (pronounced /ˈaɪbjuːproʊfɛn/ or /aɪbjuːˈproʊfən/; from the now-outdated nomenclature iso-butyl-propanoic-phenolic acid) is a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug (NSAID) originally marketed as Brufen, and since then under various other trademarks (see availability section), most notably Nurofen, Advil, and Motrin. It is used for relief of symptoms of arthritis, primary dysmenorrhea, fever, and as an analgesic, especially where there is an inflammatory component. Ibuprofen is known to have an antiplatelet effect, though it is relatively mild and short-lived when compared with that of aspirin or other better-known antiplatelet drugs. Ibuprofen also generally acts as a vasodilator, having been shown to dilate coronary arteries and some other blood vessels. Ibuprofen is a core medicine in the World Health Organization's "Essential Drugs List", which is a list of minimum medical needs for a basic health care system.[1]

[TXPOTS]

Here is one reference; it's wikipedia, which I know isn't always reliable...but I've read it on other sites as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibuprofen

Ibuprofen (INN) (pronounced /ˈaɪbjuːproʊfɛn/ or /aɪbjuːˈproʊfən/; from the now-outdated nomenclature iso-butyl-propanoic-phenolic acid) is a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug (NSAID) originally marketed as Brufen, and since then under various other trademarks (see availability section), most notably Nurofen, Advil, and Motrin. It is used for relief of symptoms of arthritis, primary dysmenorrhea, fever, and as an analgesic, especially where there is an inflammatory component. Ibuprofen is known to have an antiplatelet effect, though it is relatively mild and short-lived when compared with that of aspirin or other better-known antiplatelet drugs. Ibuprofen also generally acts as a vasodilator, having been shown to dilate coronary arteries and some other blood vessels. Ibuprofen is a core medicine in the World Health Organization's "Essential Drugs List", which is a list of minimum medical needs for a basic health care system.[1]

I think that may be a study on rabbit hearts? It's probably the same concept though as aspirin being given for a heart attack. I'm curious what the mechanism is if it is not the anti-platelet properties. I'll have to do some digging. I don't see a direct reference to that assertion, but I found an article on rabbit hearts and coronary dilation. I'm a pharmacist by profession and generally think of ibuprofen as a drug that raises blood pressure, so I'm interested in this.

[sue1234]

TXPOTS--I am in a new round of testing with a new cardio, neuro and endo. I went to Houston to have new doctors get "fresh" look at my situation. I will be going back and forth for various testing for the next 3 weeks or so. I got a good feeling, like the new doctors were really going to think it through, which is ALL I have ever expected from any doctor. Unfortunately, up until now, I had never found any that would "think" of the various possibilities.

We do seem to have a similar course. Please keep me updated on what you are going through and finding out.

And Lenna, sorry I got off topic!

[TXPOTS]

TXPOTS--I am in a new round of testing with a new cardio, neuro and endo. I went to Houston to have new doctors get "fresh" look at my situation. I will be going back and forth for various testing for the next 3 weeks or so. I got a good feeling, like the new doctors were really going to think it through, which is ALL I have ever expected from any doctor. Unfortunately, up until now, I had never found any that would "think" of the various possibilities.

We do seem to have a similar course. Please keep me updated on what you are going through and finding out.

And Lenna, sorry I got off topic!

Sue,

I am in Houston, so I would love to hear how it goes. I love my endocrinologist, but I have not found a local cardiologist and neurologist. I would love your recommendations if things go well.

Sorry, as well, Lenna and Ashelton for getting off topic.

[Jan]

I have read that Ibuprofen is a vasoconstrictor. The Mayo clinic told me to take an Ibuprofen before exercise because of that.

[Ashelton80]

I have read that Ibuprofen is a vasoconstrictor. The Mayo clinic told me to take an Ibuprofen before exercise because of that.

Well now I'm confused. LOL Did Mayo tell you the reasoning behind taking it? Did they give you a limit for how long or how often? Very interesting as this is the first time I've heard any talk of advil, but if Mayo is suggesting it then maybe it's not such an "unknown" thing. thanks

[TXPOTS]

I have read that Ibuprofen is a vasoconstrictor. The Mayo clinic told me to take an Ibuprofen before exercise because of that.

Well now I'm confused. LOL Did Mayo tell you the reasoning behind taking it? Did they give you a limit for how long or how often? Very interesting as this is the first time I've heard any talk of advil, but if Mayo is suggesting it then maybe it's not such an "unknown" thing. thanks

You can also go to the medication section here on dinet and check under Motrin for more information and links to studies. As I mentioned before, Ibuprofen increases sodium absorption and decreases prostaglandin production. Prostaglandins are potent vasodilators.This is the reason for taking it in conditions such as orthostatic hypotension. Ibuprofen is more likely to increase blood pressure. Ibuprofen, as well as aspirin, have antiplatelet effects which may thin the blood. In patients with atherosclerosis and other conditions that increase the risk of blood cots, drugs like ibuprofen may open up the coronary arteries. This is probably what the wiki article was referring to.

[Sarah4444]

TXPOTS - I seem to do better on fish oil too, and wondered if the blood thinning effects were helping my circulation, maybe restoring some oxygen to starved cells or something. Can you tell me why this might be? Do POTS people generally have circulatory problems that can be helped with blood thinning meds?

And Ashley, regarding the Advil - I have been reading mast cell stuff, and apparently people with masto have too much Prostaglandin D2 or something. I wonder if Advil would help your symptoms in the short term if this was the case for you. However, the mast doctor I saw yesterday said that NSAIDS can cause mast cell degranulation and can be dangerous for those with mast cell disorders. Apparently some doctors use low dose aspirin therapy for masto, while others think it is too risky.

[TXPOTS]

Hi Sarah,

This is a lengthy read, but it's everything one would want to know about how fish oil may work in the body. See Table 1. The general consensus is that fish oil may thin the blood by decreasing platelet clumping and increasing break down of fibrin. This effect is most pronounced in doses over 3gm. One should ask their physician in guidance on dosing, but the usual recommended dose is under 3 gm/day.

http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/106/21/2747#TBL1

I found this very interesting as well:

Goode et al86 showed that acetylcholine-stimulated relaxation of small arteries taken from hypercholesterolemic patients was significantly improved after three months of supplementation with 3 g/d of EPA+DHA. Fish oil feeding has also been shown to improve endothelial function (reviewed by Chin and Dart87) and to increase arterial compliance.88 These effects may be secondary to fish oil?s ability to enhance nitric oxide production89 and may be the mechanism by which fish oil elicits a small hypotensive effect.

[MomtoGiuliana]

Didn't read all the responses. Just thought I'd chime in that I have noticed that I have noticed WORSE POTS symptoms after taking Advil. In fact I avoid it now and take tylenol instead.

[Jan]

If ibuprofen decreases prostaglandin production, and Prostaglandins are vasodilators, does that make it a vasoconstrictor? Ibuprofen has a warning that it can raise blood pressure which is probably why it helps me.

The Mayo doctor told me to take a small dose before exercise. I was telling her walking made me dizzy so I wasn't walking very much, and she told me I needed to "retrain" my body to being upright and I should walk as much as I possible and that the Ibuprofen should help me walk longer. She didn't put any limits how long or how often I should take it. It worked for me.

I find that Ibuprofen often helps me when I feel dizzier than usual. This is useful if I have somewhere I want to go.

[Ashelton80]

If ibuprofen decreases prostaglandin production, and Prostaglandins are vasodilators, does that make it a vasoconstrictor? Ibuprofen has a warning that it can raise blood pressure which is probably why it helps me.

The Mayo doctor told me to take a small dose before exercise. I was telling her walking made me dizzy so I wasn't walking very much, and she told me I needed to "retrain" my body to being upright and I should walk as much as I possible and that the Ibuprofen should help me walk longer. She didn't put any limits how long or how often I should take it. It worked for me.

I find that Ibuprofen often helps me when I feel dizzier than usual. This is useful if I have somewhere I want to go.

Thanks Jan! It is so crazy, but it's day 4 and I have definitely felt better and been able to function more and earlier in the morning! I will take it!

[issie]

I subscribe to "Life Extension" magazine and they are recommending Advil to increase life span. The thought is that inflammation does cause allot of issues in the body and allot of the disease that is going on. They don't recommend it in large doses but do not frown on it's use. For an alternative magazine to take a look at this product and recommend it to those trying to improve health in a natural way - says something to me. I have found that it is beneficial to me also. Have to make sure to take it with food or it is hard on my stomach - it can also be hard on your liver if you tend to have issues with it. Although not as dangerous as Tylenol. I've read of people taking the regular recommended amount of tylenol and not eating with it, because they are sick, and it causing liver failure. So, my husband and I don't take tylenol at all - we do however, take Advil.

[Guest tearose]

I have worse symptoms with Advil.

[nunntrio]

TXPOTS--I am in a new round of testing with a new cardio, neuro and endo. I went to Houston to have new doctors get "fresh" look at my situation. I will be going back and forth for various testing for the next 3 weeks or so. I got a good feeling, like the new doctors were really going to think it through, which is ALL I have ever expected from any doctor. Unfortunately, up until now, I had never found any that would "think" of the various possibilities.

We do seem to have a similar course. Please keep me updated on what you are going through and finding out.

And Lenna, sorry I got off topic!

Sue are you going to an autonomic specialist in Houston. I know what you mean when you want a Dr. that is willing the think it through. If you find some in the Houston area that is helpful would you mind passing that information along. I am going to see a vascular Dr. at Baylor next week but I do not know what to expect.

[Ashelton80]

I feel like I have a better understanding now of why the Advil probably helps me. By the way, I haven't taken one since Tuesday night and today I was back to all of my symptoms of chest pain, shortness of breath, coat hanger, etc. I have discovered that these symptoms really cause the most discomfort and contribute more to me not functioning than the actual high heart rates. I can usually keep my heart rates somewhat controlled with salt and fluid, but it didn't seem to do alot for the other. Anyway, the body produces prostaglandins. A "good" type and a "bad" type. The "bad" type promotes inflammation and some people seem to have an excess of it. Advil blocks both the good and the bad prostaglandins. Another way to reduce the "bad" besides taking Advil is by taking fish oil, primrose oil, flaxseed oil, etc. They all produce "good" prostaglandins and reduce inflammation in the body. So, I think my plan as of now is maybe take an advil every other day and start supplementing the oil and hopefully just taking the advil as needed. It really has helped and now I am noticing when I don't take it I get worse.