Anyone Else Have A Problem With Lidocaine?

[Guest GayleP]

I just had a small growth on my chest biopsied and requested no eppi Lidocaine like I usually do. I noticed my HR and BP both spiked afterwards and are still on the high side. I called my cardiologist, he's not in but the cardio on call said Lidocaine shouldn't cause HR or BP to increase with the small amount used in a biopsy. She said I was probably"anxious". I've had this problem before with novacaine (sp) and when my nose was packed with Lidocaine after sinus surgery. But it's never been an issue when I've had a biopsy before as long as it's no eppi.

Anyone else sensitive to Lidocaine? I know the BP and HR spikes are not because of "anxiety" I'm sure it's because of the Lidocaine.

[EarthMother]

I know at the Dentist I have to ask for the drug without the Epinephrine. Brain fog today and I can't recall names of either product. You might want to check if the Lidocaine was cut with Epinephrine.

[Guest GayleP]

It was definitely Lidocaine without eppi added. And what's so weird is I've had it before and have done fine.

Now, I'm afraid use it again in the future. I'm sure the BP and HR spikes were a reaction to it.

[dsdmom]

Maybe they grabbed the wrong vial? I just had a biopsy and had to request they get me the lidocaine w/o epi - when they got it, it was clear they looked pretty similar to the ones w/ epi. Just a thought.

[Guest GayleP]

That's what I thought intially. Although I asked the nurse several times if she was sure there was no added eppi. And then I called to ask again when I saw that my HR and BP were spiking. I'm wondering if it's because it was injected into the skin in my chest?

[Maxine]

Gayle,

When my cardiac loop recorder was put in Lidocaine was used, and I had a very bad reaction. First I got light headed, then disoriented, then it felt like my body was going numb, and finally tremors and tachycardia. My BP was high during the procedure also, but I don't know what it was after because they didn't send me to recovery. I got straight off the bed, and was sent on my way.

I was still at the hospital when this happened, but didn't tell anyone. I just hung around until things calmed down, but is was really rough for the first 3 to 4 hours. My body didn't calm down until the next day. I didn't go to ER as I was afraid they would make things worse. The insertion of the loop didn't take that long. I think he was done by around 1:00pm, and I stayed around unttil 8:30pm. I remember vividly standing in the cafeteria with my son and finance at the time, and I just wanted to get a bagel-----something. It was only a few minutes after the procedure, and one of the nurses came up to me and asked about the support group flyers, and she sounded like she was talking in a tunnel. It was down hill from there. I felt all twitchy------and all the rest started.

Now you know why all the drama on me getting a tooth extracted. When that was finally done I asked for carbocaine, and I had no side affects at all. Epi wasn't used in the lidocaine for me either. Epi was not in the carbocaine as well.

However, when I had the loop recorder removed this past December the carbocaine was used again. This time when I went to recovery (yes, this time I was in recovery) my heart beat felt irregular. When the hooked up and ECG, of course my heart was fine, but tachy. My BP was 168/100 though---- I thought oh no here we go again. Well the doc came in and explained that "you just had a procedure and skin was cut, stiches ect, and this is why my BP is high", then he released me. Oh, and then I also learned from one of the nurses that quite a bit more of the anesthetic is used then from a tooth extraction. Fortunately, it passed much more quickly this time, and I had my klonopin with me. Carbocaine was much easier to handle.

My body doesn't like lidocaine at all. The area in the chest is more vascular also, and I think if we vasodiolate easily then the anesthetic has to be injected VERY, VERY slowly. This is even stated in a lot of different medical articles that this should be done on "normal" people. Can you imagine us?? Hmmmm. If too much of it is absorbed too quickly, we can have a toxic reaction.

You should be fine, but it may take a while for your body to calm. Just seeing that you can post this is comforting to see you can to that. I couldn't read one line in the book I took when the loop recorder was put in, and I tremored, and wreched, and tremored, and wreched--------in and out of the bathroom, and felt out of body------it was a terrible experience.

This was NOT in my mind. Perhaps the second time I was anxious, but even then my BP doesn't get THAT high. when I got home it was still high, but only 140/something.

Good luck to you, and I'll say a little prayer this goes away for you quickly.

Maxine :0)

[EarthMother]

I'm wondering if it's because it was injected into the skin in my chest?

Oooh now that's an interesting thought .... there are oodles of acupuncture points all over the chest. I use to see an MD who was a trained Chinese acupuncturist and I routinely had 50-75 needles poked all over me in a single session. Never a problem. But one day she put one in this particular point in my chest and I had such a strong reaction. Within seconds she noticed that the site had a large red ring and it felt like an elephant was sitting on my chest. She pulled it out quickly, I think we were both frightened! The pain and reaction (hyperadrengic) stayed with me for the next day or so afterward.

Interesting thought.

[Guest GayleP]

Gayle,

When my cardiac loop recorder was put in Lidocaine was used, and I had a very bad reaction. First I got light headed, then disoriented, then it felt like my body was going numb, and finally tremors and tachycardia. My BP was high during the procedure also, but I don't know what it was after because they didn't send me to recovery. I got straight off the bed, and was sent on my way.

I was still at the hospital when this happened, but didn't tell anyone. I just hung around until things calmed down, but is was really rough for the first 3 to 4 hours. My body didn't calm down until the next day. I didn't go to ER as I was afraid they would make things worse. The insertion of the loop didn't take that long. I think he was done by around 1:00pm, and I stayed around unttil 8:30pm. I remember vividly standing in the cafeteria with my son and finance at the time, and I just wanted to get a bagel-----something. It was only a few minutes after the procedure, and one of the nurses came up to me and asked about the support group flyers, and she sounded like she was talking in a tunnel. It was down hill from there. I felt all twitchy------and all the rest started.

Now you know why all the drama on me getting a tooth extracted. When that was finally done I asked for carbocaine, and I had no side affects at all. Epi wasn't used in the lidocaine for me either. Epi was not in the carbocaine as well.

However, when I had the loop recorder removed this past December the carbocaine was used again. This time when I went to recovery (yes, this time I was in recovery) my heart beat felt irregular. When the hooked up and ECG, of course my heart was fine, but tachy. My BP was 168/100 though---- I thought oh no here we go again. Well the doc came in and explained that "you just had a procedure and skin was cut, stiches ect, and this is why my BP is high", then he released me. Oh, and then I also learned from one of the nurses that quite a bit more of the anesthetic is used then from a tooth extraction. Fortunately, it passed much more quickly this time, and I had my klonopin with me. Carbocaine was much easier to handle.

My body doesn't like lidocaine at all. The area in the chest is more vascular also, and I think if we vasodiolate easily then the anesthetic has to be injected VERY, VERY slowly. This is even stated in a lot of different medical articles that this should be done on "normal" people. Can you imagine us?? Hmmmm. If too much of it is absorbed too quickly, we can have a toxic reaction.

You should be fine, but it may take a while for your body to calm. Just seeing that you can post this is comforting to see you can to that. I couldn't read one line in the book I took when the loop recorder was put in, and I tremored, and wreched, and tremored, and wreched--------in and out of the bathroom, and felt out of body------it was a terrible experience.

This was NOT in my mind. Perhaps the second time I was anxious, but even then my BP doesn't get THAT high. when I got home it was still high, but only 140/something.

Good luck to you, and I'll say a little prayer this goes away for you quickly.

Maxine :0)

Thanks Maxine.

It's possible some of us just can't handle Lidocaine if it's given in the chest. Although about 12 years ago I went into an afib during a sinus surgery when they packed my nose with Lidocaine. I don't know if there was eppi in it or not. And like i said, I haven't been able to handle novocaine for years although carbocaine is fine. And up until today I was OK with no eppi Lidocaine.

It's interesting you also had a bad reactin to Lidocaine when it was used in your chest although I'm sure you were given a higher dose than I was for your procedure. You might be right about the body absorbing it qucker when it's given in the chest. Anyhow, I emailed my cardiologist because I'm not satisfied with the on call cardio's answer. I'm still feeling tachy and my BP is still a little high.

[Guest GayleP]

I'm wondering if it's because it was injected into the skin in my chest?

Oooh now that's an interesting thought .... there are oodles of acupuncture points all over the chest. I use to see an MD who was a trained Chinese acupuncturist and I routinely had 50-75 needles poked all over me in a single session. Never a problem. But one day she put one in this particular point in my chest and I had such a strong reaction. Within seconds she noticed that the site had a large red ring and it felt like an elephant was sitting on my chest. She pulled it out quickly, I think we were both frightened! The pain and reaction (hyperadrengic) stayed with me for the next day or so afterward.

Interesting thought.

Thanks Earth Mother.

I used to go to acupuncture but I don't recall her using needles in my chest.

I do Reiki and was given some healing stones from my healer. One stone is supposed to help with HR and BP. One day my healer told me to experiment and put the stone on my chest. It was weird, I immediately got tachy when I placed the stone there. Perhaps there are certain points on the chest which are more sensitive than others. The feeling was so intense that I was too afraid to try it again on another part of my chest.

[delphicdragon]

Sorry to hear you've all had such a bad reaction. I have the opposite problem, the Novocaine, etc that I am given doesn't work for me. Neither does the medicine given in an epidural. I've been told this is common with EDS, but it sure stinks. It took 5 epidurals for my knee surgery and the knee wasn't numb (140+ heart rate laying down afterward though for a good long while). For my wisdom teeth (all ready erupted)I was maxed out on Novocaine and Carbocaine (they called it super-Novocaine) and I still felt it. Not sure what my heart rate did, but I always assumed that the elevation was due to pain, not a medication reaction.

Sara

[Sophia3]

I have no answer for you Gayle but hope you get an answer and things level out soon for you.

[Poohbear]

Gayle,

Check this out.... I realize this is addressing the topical form but hello?????!!!! If it can do this in the topical form I would imagine the injected form would be more potent in this area. You may want to report this as an adverse event to FDA

http://www.fda.gov/medwatch/safety/2009/sa...htm#Anesthetics

This was just posted 1/16/09. I would share it with all of your Dr's including the ones who did the procedure and the cardio and make them answer to you on this....

Topical Anesthetics

Audience: Consumers, radiological healthcare professionals, emergency room healthcare professionals, risk managers

[Posted 01/16/2009] FDA issued a public health advisory to remind patients, healthcare professionals, and caregivers about potentially serious hazards of using skin numbing products, also known as topical anesthetics, for relieving pain from mammography and other medical tests and conditions. FDA is concerned about the potential for these products to cause serious, life-threatening adverse effects, such as irregular heartbeat, seizures, breathing difficulties, coma and even death, when applied to a large area of skin or when the area of application is covered. FDA is working with healthcare professional organizations and other media that distribute healthcare information to spread the message about the potential hazards and safe use of topical anesthetics. The Advisory and the Dear Colleague letter provide recommendations to both doctors and patients on safe use of these products.

[Guest GayleP]

Thanks Sophia and Delphic Dragon.

Poohbear, Thanks for the FDA link. I just contacted them to ask some questions about Lidocaine and they were useless. I spoke with a phramacist who didn't know sqaut. It's kind of scary that these are the folks who are monitoring what we put on our bodies.

[Maxine]

Gayle,

I talked with a pharmacist, anesthesiologist, and an allergist. The only doctor that took it seriously was an allergist even though he and I knew it was probably a TOXIC reaction, NOT an allergic reaction. I was sent there by an oral surgeon from the university of Mich. They thought I was having an allergic reaction, even though my symptoms didn't correlate.

The allergist was so nice, but would not test me outside of a hospital because I'm on a beta blocker. Beta blockers can prevent the drugs used for anaphylactic reactions to work properly. Most doctors should know this too. He was pretty confident I had a toxic reaction.

I told them I felt that I had a toxic reaction: http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/167309-overview

Check out the link.

Doctors need more training on local anesthetics, as most of the docs I talked to blow it off as a relatively benign drug.

I don't want to make anyone afraid, but we need to be aware because our docs apparently don't get it. People with EDS need to be especially careful because some of us vasodialate due to poor vascular tone from stretchy veins. NORMAL people need to have lidocaine injected slowly, and properly. Can you imagine if this isn't done properly on someone with POTS or EDS?

And that's all I have to say about that.............

That's pretty scary about the FDA-----BUT, I'm not surprised. Can you tell I'm a cynic-------I didn't to this to me.

Not really, I do try to believe, and have hope----but I continuously read about insane ignorance that is beyond belief.

Maxine :0)

[lorrie]

I went to an ER with severe chest pains and the doctor (who didn't know anything about POTS) said I was having stomach problems and the next thing I know, a nurse was holding out a cup of liquid and told me to drink it. She said it was a "Mylanta cocktail". I thought it was strange to be drinking Mylanta, but did it anyway...little did I know it was mixed with lidocaine!!! I have had previous poor reactions to topical lidocaine.

First off, I didn't know you could ingest lidocaine and the taste of it mixed with the Mylanta was horrid. Secondly, they did not make me aware BEFORE I drank it that I was drinking lidocaine. Well, as you can imagine, I had an awful reaction to it. I vomited over and over for hours and my tachy was off the chain. I could hardly stay on the bed I was shaking so badly. My whole body was reacting.

The doctor said it couldn't be the lidocaine and said I was just being "dramatic"... he almost got to see some drama when my husband followed him out to the hall and demanded he call my cardio doctor. when He arrived, he said I should never ingest lidocaine again and gave me some medicine to settle things down.

I'm sick of doctors telling me I am anxious or dramatic or pretending...ugggh!!!!!!!! Makes me want to go postal.

[ajw4790]

Hi,

Wow, some of these stories are scary! I am one who has an lidocaine insensitivity, meaning it takes a LOT of it to get me numb. Some of this is supposed to be linked with a potassium insufficiency, but have not discussed this with a dr, so am not sure... I have had these large amounts of lidocaine etc. make my ANS go crazy, rapid HR etc. So, it can do it to you, but most drs for some reason can not comprehend this.

[delphicdragon]

Hi,

Wow, some of these stories are scary! I am one who has an lidocaine insensitivity, meaning it takes a LOT of it to get me numb. Some of this is supposed to be linked with a potassium insufficiency, but have not discussed this with a dr, so am not sure... I have had these large amounts of lidocaine etc. make my ANS go crazy, rapid HR etc. So, it can do it to you, but most drs for some reason can not comprehend this.

Do you have links to those articles? I never understood why it took FOREVER to get me numb and I have been diagnosed with a potassium deficiency.

Sara