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Another Question On The Vandy Study


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I decided to start a new thread because the other was so long. For those of you that understand this stuff better then I do can you explain this? In the study in states that "Pots patients had a larger orhterstatic increase in heart rate then did controls (52 +- 3 (mean +=SEM) vs 27 +-6 bpm, p=.001)". I thought a POTS diagnosis was defined as 30 bpm increase, why are the control bpm increases so close to a POTS definition? I do not understand scientific methods but I am hoping some of you will. I am asking because I was a part of this study and my bpm increased are usually only around 35.

Thanks.

Here is the link again to the study.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21266211

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I decided to start a new thread because the other was so long. For those of you that understand this stuff better then I do can you explain this? In the study in states that "Pots patients had a larger orhterstatic increase in heart rate then did controls (52 +- 3 (mean +=SEM) vs 27 +-6 bpm, p=.001)". I thought a POTS diagnosis was defined as 30 bpm increase, why are the control bpm increases so close to a POTS definition? I do not understand scientific methods but I am hoping some of you will. I am asking because I was a part of this study and my bpm increased are usually only around 35.

Thanks.

Here is the link again to the study.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21266211

On average POTS patients had BPM increases of 52, plus or minus 3, compared to the controls who, on average, had rises of 27 BPM, plus or minus 6. Your questions are quite valid- those controls are looking a lot like POTS patients themselves :blink:

Did you ever get your angiotensin II levels or do they remain a mystery to you even now? Will you ever get them?

Hope so- frustrating, if not. Are you considering the lorsartan therapy?

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I don't know how to get a full copy of the article. Does anyone have an idea? I guess I will try to find it. I am sure there is something I am missing.

Mack's Mom - I did my results and my levels were consistant with the control group which makes me wonder even more about criteria for being a control or a POTS subject.

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I don't know how to get a full copy of the article. Does anyone have an idea? I guess I will try to find it. I am sure there is something I am missing.

Mack's Mom - I did my results and my levels were consistant with the control group which makes me wonder even more about criteria for being a control or a POTS subject.

I assume that you mean your angiotensin II levels were consistent with the control groups- right? Certainly doesn't mean that you don't have POTS- just not a part of that very narrow group that Vandy is trying to identify- a subset w/i the low-flow category.

I'd still like to see the full article too as I'm curious as to HOW they got HR's so high among the control???

Julie

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I have not seen the full text, but I am betting that they picked POTS patients with KNOWN low blood volume for the study. It also does not say if that increase was sustained. A control may have a HR surge, but then drop back down, a POTS patient would have a higher surge and settle at a sustained higher HR (which is why we aren't "normal.")

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I assume that you mean your angiotensin II levels were consistent with the control groups- right? Certainly doesn't mean that you don't have POTS- just not a part of that very narrow group that Vandy is trying to identify- a subset w/i the low-flow category.

I'd still like to see the full article too as I'm curious as to HOW they got HR's so high among the control???

Julie

Yes, my angiotenson II level was 32.1 which is consistant with the control range. They did not tell me what my aldosterone or renin numbers were. I did put a call in to get some clarification on my results. I do not have low blood volumn which I think is cocsistant with the low flow sub set they were testing for. When I have a few extra minutes I am going to search for the full article. I have no idea where to look but I will try. I would like to get an answer to the HR question at least for my own piece of mind.

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Nunntrio,

Since becoming afflicted with this lemon of a condition, family, friends, and neighbors have taken my heart rate challenge. :) This what I have noticed from my very limited population study. There are some people, like my husband, that only have a heart rate increase immediately when standing, but the rate quickly returns to baseline. They can stand in one place for great lengths of time. Other people have an increase in 10-15 bpm which is sustained. Then, there is my mother and another female friend who have sustained heart rate jumps between 20-30 bpm, AND it is very uncomfortable for the two of them to stand in one place. They start feeling pressure in their legs and dizziness. My friend and my mom do not have POTS. Some people have better orthostatic tolerance than others. It becomes a problem when the heart rate jump is excessive or accompanied by symptoms affecting your day to day quality of life. I bet there is a large subset of the regular population that find it uncomfortable to stand still in one place. I think you have a valid question. My heart rate jump was huge when I first got sick, but now my heart rate is under control, but I still have symptoms.

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TXPOTS- Interesting piont. Even in those without symptoms there is a wide range of normal. I guess I just assumed a 10-15 bpm increase was standard. Now that you mention it, I might have a small study of my own with my friends and family. I have only ever tested my husband. I love the lemon diagnosis term!!!

Firewatcher - It occured to me also that they may have only tested low flow pots people. If that was the case I would have been considered a control. I would have hoped they would have let me know that a head of time but who know's.

If I get any further clarification about the study I will let you know.

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