Ans / Vestibular Connection

[heathmcev]

Hi lovely POTS folks,

Does anyone out there understand any connection the ANS has to the vestibular nerve / inner ear? My instinct says there must be one - especially as so many of us seem to have vestibular issues. It just seems that none of the doctors or physical therapists I'm seeing have much to say on the topic. And everything I'm finding online is just way too complex (the anatomy of the inner ear's just not getting through my thick skull... too brain fogged!). So if anyone can put it out there in layman's terms I'd be grateful!

Just as additional info - I have had ENG, ECOG & VEMP tests that were normal for the most part. They said if anything, there's mild under-performance in both sides' superior vestibular nerves which could be causing my disequilibrium, vertigo, motion sickness, etc... but as of now they're leaning toward migraine w/ dizziness... but also admit that they don't really know for sure.

Thanks!

dizzyde

[kayjay]

Dizzy, I agree with you that a connection must exist. I have been to ear specialist and no "ear problems".

I assumed ( don't know anything ) that it has to do with fluid and/or blood vessel issues that we have.

Sorta like the brain fog which is transient... I am stupid until I am still and sitting/laying down. Do you have vertigo prone?

I do have a friend who has a vertigo issue and has to limit her salt intake. Do we have the opposite problem?

If she has too much salt she gets bad vertigo and vomits. I think it is called muniers (sp). Could this be related to POTS? I am wondering if fluid is an issue here.

[heathmcev]

Hi kayjay,

Thanks for responding! I should have been more specific... sorry. There are so many different ear issues! What I'm talking about is not orthostatic hypotension-style dizziness that is relieved by changing position - but a vestibular dysfunction that may be caused by inner ear nerve problems. The type of thing where the nervous system may be sending the wrong signals to the balance systems, like it does w/ our hearts, digestion, etc.

I'm trying to understand the direct or indirect impact the ANS could be having on our balance systems. Like how so many of us get dizzy in the grocery store or any time we're overstimulated. Why are so many of us so easily overstimulated by movement, colors, lights, etc? My PT says that this low tolerance for stimuli overloads the body's ability to deal with and take in everything my environment presents me with. But why? It could all be migraine-related at the end of the day, but I just have to think it's related to dysautonomia more than that.... hmmmm....

[issie]

I know what you're talking about. I had that happen last night. I had a friend come over and she is a talker, in a nervous sort of way. The busyness of the visit was very stimulating and overwhelming - not to mention that I'm usually done by around 3 o'clock in the afternoon and she stayed til around 10:00 p.m. I felt very dizzy, out of sorts, brain foggy, like I couldn't talk right - sort of slurring, and then I didn't sleep not one minute last night. I think maybe it must have something to do with being overwhelmed and over stimulated or stressed - I don't know. I do know I won't be having any more late in the day visits any time soon. It was too much for me. I hate that too, I used to love parties and busyness, but now it just makes me get dizzy and my heart races and it's not a good feeling at all. Oh, lights mess me up too - especially florescent lights. Same response and I get a real nervous, shakey feeling and do begin to have tremors.

[HopeSprings]

I strongly believe there is a connection and have asked this question before. So many of us have ear/inner problems and the "type" of dizziness that goes along with this. Here is just one article that talks about the connection. http://www.jvr-web.org/Download/Feature_15_3.pdf If you "google" vestibular system autonomic nervous system a bunch of articles pop up about the relationship between the two. I am really brain fogged too and it's hard for me to do research, but my understanding is that there is a direct relationship between the vestibular system and it somehow contributing to blood pressure, respiration and heart rate control. PLease if anyone has any input or knowledge on this topic, please share.

Naomi

[Tuesday]

I've had so many issues with vertigo/dizziness it's ridiculous. I've been in and out of the balance therapy center over the past couple of years with mixed results. They still can't figure out exactly what's causing it, though I've had diagnoses of BPPV on both sides, which I'm told is really uncommon.

I believe there has to be some sort of a connection but I haven't found anything concrete yet.

[heathmcev]

So many of us in the same boat yet so few answers. Seems to be kinda like everything else we're all dealing with, no? So frustrating. Wish someone would study this. It feels to me like just one more way our goofy ANS's are toying with us.

Thanks for the article Naomi - i'll google some more with your keywords and read what you sent over the weekend.

[jem15]

I agree, I really think there's a connection cause too many of us have similar issues. I'm curious how many of us with these vestibular issues had POTS onset after a virus? I mentioned this to dizzde in a PM, but thought I'd share...the ENT I just saw said sometimes if your ENG comes up off in the caloric portion(water/air) part, it's possibly a problem with the nerve pathway. I asked what causes this, and he said usually a virus.... so I'm wondering if it's the virus itself that messes up the ANS and inner ear structures... and/or the dysautonomia resulting from it, that further causes the signals to be screwy....

I went undiagnosed for so long, and now in the past 6mo, was told I have POTS, possible inner ear issues due to the ENG and ECOG results(possible fluid problem), and also "visual-vestibular" dysfunction, which they describe as a problem in which the brain processes info from the sensory systems. Other than the fluid problem, it all seems plausible that the same wacky ANS is messing up the signals throughout the body, causing all kinds of fun. I desperately am trying to get these drs to talk to each other, but of course they don't. It just seems so obvious there's some sort of correlation there... even if it's just related conditions or whatever, I dont know how drs havent noticed this yet.

Also, the ENT said, he notices patients with inner ear issues tend to have similar "syndromes" of symptoms including visual symptoms and fatigue. so who knows what is causing what?

Another interesting thing is when I'm at therapy, and they're taxing my vestib/visual systems with a challenging activity, it's not cardio, but i'll start to get hot and faint, and sweaty... so i dunno.. some reflex being triggered there... again makes me think there's a lot of overlap in how certain systems relate to each other.

ha, dont know if any of that made sense.. but just some thoughts...

[heathmcev]

Hey all,

So I discussed this with my osteopath this week (he's board cert'd in internal medicine & has an integrative practice). To his credit, he was the 1st doctor to take *all* of my symptoms seriously and suggest that there could be something wrong with my ANS, which then gave me the push to go get the real dysauto dx. Great guy. Anyway... he feels that this is all yet another way our ANS's are fooling with our bodies, rather than mirgaines w/ vertigo or other inner ear problems. I asked him about how the inner ear & ANS are related, and he said that motion sickness is the perfect example. Why would something like a rocking ship make us nauseous? The brain is sending signals throughout our body telling it to react. He said it goes beyond just our eyes & ears sensing balance. I wish I could explain it as well as he did...

Food for thought anyway. On one hand it helps me to think it's all related, rather than yet another additional health problem to tackle. On the other hand... what can we do to improve? I'm working on my PT exercises and hoping to build some sort of tolerance to the over-stimulation issues.