Chicken Soup Running Down Throat?

[lieze]

I am so paranoid here it isn't funny!

One day at the bank after I had touched the little container you put your check in to send through the shoot I accidentally put my thumb in my mouth. I was ready to swallow hand sanitizer I had such a freak out. I came home and automatically looked up swine flu and counted the days down waiting to see if I would come down with it or not. Well I was fine. Nothing happened.

Tonight-

I was sitting here eating chicken soup. All of a sudden I felt my throat clamp shut on me.

And I felt the warm soup run down the inside of my torso. Well I automatically thought I aspirated the soup. I didn't really even choke or cough. Just sat there. I couldn't really even eat any more I was so freaked out. I did take a couple more bites just to check that my swallow was working and it worked just fine.

So I am trying to tell myself that once again I am overreacting. Fearing the worse. I have become so obsessive and paranoid that it is just crazy.

My lungs feel fine I can take nice deep breaths and I don't feel gaggy or choky or anything.

But I still keep questioning which pipe did that go down.

lieze

[futurehope]

Hopefully, you can find a resolution to your anxiety. Sounds like it's difficult, being so frightened.

[potsgirl]

That must have been a scary experience for you, but it sounds like you're okay. You may want to look into a good med to help with your anxiety issues as it sounds as if it's making your life kind of crazy. Anxiety is closely associated with POTS/dysautonomia, so no need to feel bad about it. I take Paxil and Klonopin for anxiety issues, and have seen counselors in the past to help me with this.

Good luck, and let us know what helps.

Cheers,

Jana

[lieze]

Thanks ladies I think after getting the chicken pox and how sick this has left me I just have a bad case of hypervigilence.

I don't even know any more what to be scared of what not to because I just see everything as a danger. At first it was difficult to go anywhere at all I had such a germ phobia. But I am slowly able to do more without such paranoia.

I will say those stupid car carts they have for kids make me angry.

They are covered in germs.

Why do people take their kids shopping sick anway.

Twice now we have went to the supermarket. We try to wipe it down as much as we can with those antibacterial cloths.

First time my 3 year ended up with probable strep.

Now he's got a stomach virus. Both times it was within 24-48 hours of a visit to the supermarket with that stupid red car cart.

I think the next time I'm just taking my can of lysol and giving it a good spraying.

If anyone says anything I'll just tell them this is what you call community service!

It's so frustrating.

But yes I feel fine just hope I can avoid along with the rest of the family this nasty stomach virus.

lieze

[erik]

Well, hypervigilance is a potential POTS symptom itself. There are theories that the key noradrenaline & adrenaline factors induce this and are also involved in heightening memory intensity and response. One can imagine this is how things are supposed to happen, since the "fight or flight" response is generally due to a heightened threat so there is merit in learning to "overreact" and "lower threshold of coincidence" to similar things from then on. If the sympathetic flood were due to being chased by a bear... it would not be an "overreaction" to later fear the place, similar places, circumstances, scents, lighting, textures, prior scenario, et. al. where you encountered the bear. We operate at higher conceptual levels than that, but still have the low level stuff going on... partly as appropriate, partly from malfunction. Since your "anxiety" is triggered by very high levels of thought (analyzing risk in handling things, understanding germs, etc.) obviously there is extensive interaction between low level autonomics and higher cognition/limbic response. So the physical malfunction of POTS has naturally pushed into psychological realms (probably unavoidable for all of us).

I am arguing that for some it can be like a mini-PTSD thing. If you're familiar with that, one ends up with episodes of hypervigilant state, extensive numb state (the opposite, repressed, down or crashed mode), and too little of the "healthy middle" that we are expected to live within for normal society.

Throw in ongoing haphazard trigger of the "fight or flight" mode (from merely standing up for example!) and you get a very confused result. One is wired to be "scared of everything". Hypoglycemic response can be similar... and it might not be surprising that POTS is reported to give some folks an exaggerated "reactive hypoglycemic" response (hence the frequent small low GI meals advice). One is not paranoid, anxious, or whatever in the typical sense... but indirectly from the physiological confusion of these powerful base responses. This bleeds over into psychological realm. Perhaps inevitably.

I personally am usually in the numb state (which is actually the less glamorous but predominant PTSD state) and every so often get the hypervigilance. Prior trauma sensitizes a person to subsequent amplified trauma experience (meaning less intense things get experienced as though they are more significant than most would find them). Those with PTSD seem to exhibit a statistical skew toward HPA changes akin to those of us with physically induced HPA-response distortions, but to my knowledge they are less pronounced. Some of us have both, which you can imagine is a bit of a mess. These things are studied but not pinned down, of course. I'm just extrapolating from personal stuff mixed with whatever limited insights a few studies have.

As to what to do, it sounds like you're handling it well. Your vigilance is focused on the actual threat... in other words you're not refusing to leave the house. You are "on top" of the problem and it isn't consuming you. Maybe the unhealthy heightened intensity will wear off, maybe there are things that can/should be done to ensure that, certainly do what you can to keep your physiological state steady and avoid re-triggering these things. For example, experiencing a full panic response might "reinforce" the triggers you wish to subside. Even though this isn't a psychological disorder, treating it as such can keep it from becoming one. For "probabilities", one could look at this as a "trauma" and figure that without prior trauma history (risk factors) you are in the "likely natural recovery" group, and despite the intensity of what you describe you have a solid handle on it. On the other hand, consulting with expert in the similar psychological realms might give speedy or more ensured recovery.

Sorry to babble, but the PTSD/POTS niche is my personal enclave so I get excited if things border on it!

[Chaos]

Erik,

Good to see you back on-line with your words of wisdom! Hope this means you're feeling better.

I've had 3 different health practitioners tell me, independantly, that I present like a PTSD patient but they can't figure out why since I don't have the trauma history. Any other insights you have on this (PTSD/POTS) thing would be appreciated!

[erik]

Thanks. I'm feeling better from changing up meds and resting and such which will last for a little while probably. Still keeping it minimal. I don't exactly have a full "pet theory" just a "pet observation" since much of the PTSD research/theories point to physiological changes that are so similar to POTS observations & theories. Maybe I can work something up in the form of a thread on POTS/PTSD coincidences... basically centering around: hyper-responsive sympathetic system or otherwise perturbed HPA response; the "beta blocker" studies (as post trauma inoculation) that started a few years ago and continue; lack of specific treatment for either but perhaps crossover possibilities; etc.

I can't say I'm surprised that docs would say that to some of us POTS folks. Not all, but certainly some. We come in different flavors!

In a way, us POTSies are great test cases because we have stronger physiological underpinnings... as opposed to coming from the psychological side where they are more subtle and muddled. Not that we aren't muddled

[Chaos]

A thread on your "pet observations" would be greatly appreciated!

One of my theories for why we might tend to be hyper-vigilant about our bodies is for the practical reason that when you have so many bizarre symptoms, there might be a tendency to keep thinking that if you just notice the RIGHT symptom it'll be the "magic switch" that suddenly ties it all together for some doctor. Wishful thinking, I know, but when you spend so many years traveling down this road without answers, hope springs eternal and all that!

I'm feeling like I've gotten a lot more answers since finding this site, than I've had in decades! Ironic really, since there are so few real answers out there about this ANS stuff but at least it's given me a direction to start searching...or at least a direction in which to stumble around blindly Thanks to all of you for that!

[potsgirl]

It IS good to see you back! Hope you'll hang around for awhile.

Cheers,

Jana

[Noreen]

Erik-

Thank you so much for this post. You have concisely explained many of my problems to me in ways that years of seeing professionals have not.

I would love to see you post more on this topic.

Blessings upon you, sir.

Noreen

[Noreen]

A thread on your "pet observations" would be greatly appreciated!

One of my theories for why we might tend to be hyper-vigilant about our bodies is for the practical reason that when you have so many bizarre symptoms, there might be a tendency to keep thinking that if you just notice the RIGHT symptom it'll be the "magic switch" that suddenly ties it all together for some doctor. Wishful thinking, I know, but when you spend so many years traveling down this road without answers, hope springs eternal and all that!

I absolutely agree with you.

And for me, it always seemed that if I could just explain things correctly the docs would 'get' it.

[lieze]

I want to thank you too Erik for making a little sense of what might seem like insanity for others.

I am declaring myself free of possible aspiration pneumonia since I would have most likely be showing signs of infection by now. Or maybe I just absorbed all the broth and have an extra noodle now.

lieze