mkoven Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 can anyone explain this- I get deep tissue/myofascial release for chronic musculoskeletal issues. I'm lying down throughout. It's not painful, jut can be intense. Anyway, often my hands are FREEZING and I feel woozy during a treatment. My therapist has never seen this before. Her theory is that blood is getting shunted around, depending on where she's working? Any other ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janiedelite Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 YES! I've been getting myofacial work by a PT for back pain and hip pain. Whenever she particularly works on my thoracic spine, my hands and feet will get white, cold and sweaty. I also flush and my cheeks will be flushed for a couple hours afterward. We were very curious about what's happening so I brought my BP cuff and prior to the massage my BP was 120's/70's but afterward it rose to 139/95. Does your masseuse work on you thoracic spine? Our theory is that since the sympathetic nerve chain runs deep right under the thoracic spine, the more she worked on my thoracic area the more peripheral vasoconstriction and flushing I experience as more adrenaline was released. You might bring your BP cuff and take readings before and after. The PT initially thought she could calm my sympathetic nervous system by working on my thoracic area (which is often painful and tight), but we've realized that since my sympathetic nervous system is overactive as a reflexive response to chronic pooling, the myofacial work on my thoracic spine just further stimulates an already overactive sympathetic nervous system. It's kind of like poking an angry tiger... I've been going to PT for a very long time for various ailments, and it's not really bringing about a lasting improvement in my pain and function anymore. As a result, my doctor probably won't prescribe more visits for now. But like you, I have a lot of back and joint pain from the dysautonomia and could really benefit from a good masseuse trained in myofacial work. How did you find your masseuse? What kind of questions did you ask? I understand why my doc doesn't want to prescribe more PT, but I'll pay out-of-pocket for a good massage a couple times a month. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkoven Posted May 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 interesting idea about bringing bp cuff. i often feel i might faint, even though i'm flat on my back. and a treatment has the potential to either calm down a migraine or bring one on. all of this is worst when she works on my psoas.she works through a doctor's office-- a physical med and rehab doc. she's very good, no question. I am curious now what my bp is doing.I think it is helping a lot of my eds joint stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flop Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 I have a personal trainer who also does sports massage and deep tissue work on me. He says that the idea in doing deep tissue work is to increase blood flow to the area to encourage tissue repair.The very first time he massaged me I got quite worried as even the next morning you couold have fried an egg on my back - it was bright red and hot to touch. He hadn't seen a response quite that dramatic before but he had done a lot of release work, now he tends to be a bit gentler on me than other clients. The heat and increased blood flow happen wherever he has been working, be it back/neck/shoulders or even legs and arms. From my EDS I have a lot of musculoskeletal problems!I like the thoracic nerves stimulation theory above, perhaps the two ideas both happen together?Flop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janiedelite Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 Thanks, Mkoven, for sharing how you found your masseuse. I don't have resources through a doctor's office like you described, so I'll just call around.Flop, whenever my PT works on my hip or my back my skin also gets really hot and red, moreso than any other patient she's seen. I don't know if it's just an exaggerated histamine response to the inflammation caused by her massage (I find some benefit for my POTS symptoms in a daily antihistamine and might have MCAD). When my adrenaline gets pumping, my face flushes but sometimes my torso flushed also. So this might have something to do with our sympathetic nervous system being extra sensitive too. This is interesting because I don't have EDS, but we seem to have a similar response to massage and myofacial treatments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flop Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 Thankful, you just reminded me of my other thought about the redness - histamine! (Sorry, having brainfog issues!). I do take daily anitihistamines and wonder if I may have MCAD (can't get anyone to test me for it). I remember reading about pressure urticaria and getting red hot wheals where bressure had been applied. I have dermographism (skin-writing) so I guess deep tissue work could be causing histamine release. Seen as histamine causes vasodilation it would bring blood to the area that had been treated so I guess it could be a good thing rather than a problem?Flop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwensvilla Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 How or in what form of pots would histamines be useful??? Gwen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkoven Posted May 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 I also have dermatographism and sometimes get really red and itchy during treatment. it seems to be most likley when she's working on an area that hasn't been treated recently, that may have extra scar tissue??? but I seem to be an unusual case for her. I always feel sensations in areas distal to where she's working, get odd ans reactions, etc-- a walking example of how everything is connected/integrated.she says she's never felt fascia like mine before-- she described it as sloshy and swirly--like it both tightens and releases too fast and too much.. again with the hyperresponsiveness??it really has helped my back and hips to have her work on my psoas. she's very gifted. but there are days when I'm very autonomically fragile and she has to be more gentle. my icey hands really throw her for a loop!(BTW, the doctor himself used to be a massage therapist before med school, so has an unusual appreciation of how muscles and fascia work, much more so than any other musculoskeletal doc I"ve seen. Sadly, I'm leaving DC soon, and will have to leave these folks. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flop Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 Gwen,histamine causes vasodilation so would lower BP and make POTS symptoms worse. I know that when my hayfever is playing up (ie all summer!) my POTS symptoms come on much quicker and worse than normal. Taking anti-histamine medications blocks the action of histamine and for me improves both my nose and my POTS. There has been a lot posted on here in recent months about mast-cell activation disorder (MCAD). A rare condition where the mast cells that contain histamine and other "allergy" chemicals breakdown releasing the histamine etc but without actually having an allergic trigger. If you do a forum search for MCAD you should find the main threads.I actually take double dose antihistamines all year round and other anti-allergy meds (ranitidine a histamine2 blocker and singulair).Flop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broken_Shell Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Hi,Add a "me too" in there! I have been getting myofascial work for over two years by a PT for chronic myofascial pain in my head, neck, face, etc. She does work my whole body though using a gentle technique known as Upledger and also does craniosacral work on me. These are the only types of therapy work that I can handle. You can find a therapist in your area by looking on www.upledger.com. During and after my treatment, I experience flushing, cold hands and feet, wooziness, etc. I think its a combination of the dysautonomia and my body's inappropriate response to having my tissues "unwound." I have the same sorts of responses as they are tightening up. The stimulation of autonomic nerves along the spine and base of the head seems like it may certainely be related though. The therapist isn't sure what it is, but I have seen so many PTs and she seems to work the best with my body and understand my full condition a little better than the others I seen in the past. Interesting that others are expereincing the same thing....~ Broken_Shell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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