Rigid Vs. Folding Ultra-lightweight Wheelchair

[DancingLight]

Hello to my fellow DINET wheelchair users:

I am just wondering if anyone made the decision between a rigid vs. a folding ultra-lightweight wheelchair.

I am looking at the Quickie GT vs. the Quickie 2 Lite.

I met with the person from the supplier today and this is the biggest part of my decision.

He felt that the rigid would give me more options for mobility, but it presents more difficulty for transport.

I wondered if anyone else had decided b/w these two options with OUR conditions....as he had never seen anyone with ANS dysfunction before.

I tried the Quickie 2 Lite (Melissa, they are discontinuing your beloved Quickie 2HP!)....and I was AMAZED that it was so, well, 'pushable'. I could not believe it. It made me really excited. Granted, I was on hard wood floors in the house, but wow, what a difference from a standard chair.

The rigid chairs are about 5 pounds lighter...

Oh, and then colors!!!! Tough, tough decision!!!

I know I'm not around much on DINET these days...but I do check in quite frequently to see 'what's happening' with everyone.

Thanks for any help you might have!

Emily

P.S. It still has to go through insurance, but they only have 21 days to decide. He really felt that it would go through given the documentation I have. It seems too easy....it makes me wonder if it will all work out so well. It should take about 6 weeks total from start to finish. Right now, I have a standard VERY bulky chair.

[Sunfish]

in short, for me it came down to the fact that no amount of flexibility, # of options, etc. re: mobility would make one lick of difference if i couldn't transport it readily. and for me to have what i needed, i.e. a high enough back with handles for others to push me when i'm unable, a rigid frame wouldn't have been realistic to transport. which meant that, in the end, it really wasn't much of a choice for me.

hope that makes sense?

as a bit of a sidenote, it sounds like you experienced for yourself why i go on & on about what a difference having an ultra-lightweight chair truly makes when it comes to being able to mobilize/ push oneself, eh? see there IS some method to my madness afterall! .

good luck with your final decisions...

melissa

p.s. some (many?) parapalegics &/or other wheelchair-users are able to transport rigid chairs easily but - at least in my experience/ encounters - these folks are much healthier/ stable than myself and don't have the need to have a chair with handles (aka a back that's high enough for handles) so that the size of their rigid frames are much more reasonable than what i would have needed. for me the size of a rigid chair that i would have needed would have hardly (if at all) fit in the trunk of my car much less inside the car so that i could get it in/ out myself (on good days; i do it by sitting inside & pulling it in after me from the backseat afterwhich i then climb up front; this was invented by necessity after fainting in parking lots on several occasions when i tried to get my chair in my car while standing outside.)

[Poohbear]

I am not familiar with the specific brand you are questioning but based on my experience with these decisions here are some suggestions.

1-Decide where you will use the chair. Inside? on carpet or hardwood? Outside? Limited to smooth surfaces or grassy areas?

If you plan to be on carpet or grassy or rocky areas you probably need the heavier chair that will be sturdier.

2-Pay attention to the wheel size and if all 4 wheels are the same size. Do the wheels have good traction?

Read reviews online of other people's experiences

3- It's nice to have light weight and portability but some of the light weight chairs really limit where you can go with them. You also don't want a chair that is so lightweight that it makes it easier for you to accidentally be 'tipped out'. For example navigating a low curb or sloped incline can pose a problem for you (or others who may push you) and if your chair is very light weight it can be much easier to tip out and/or lose control of the chair.

4-Ask if there is an option to return and exchange the chair if upon arrival you realize it's not a suitable one for you.

If you are talking about a weight difference of 5 to 10 pounds between chairs then my advice is to go with the heavier chair. 5 to 10 pounds is really not much different in terms of portability in the "lightweight" chair categories and I've found that too light of a chair just doesn't manuever very well (unless you will mostly be on hardwood, smooth interior surfaces).

Hope this helps! Good luck with your decision

[DancingLight]

Thanks Poohbear and Melissa!

Pooh--it's good to see your name pop up!

Melissa...of course I know there is a method to your madness!!!! The ultra-lightweight is amazing and I can't stop talking about how cool it was to try it out.

I am hoping they might have a rigid one for me to look at as well as the folding one he brought yesterday. He didn't have me try stuff like taking the wheels off, folding it up myself etc. Which is really important! So, I called and left a message. I'd rather slow the process a teeny bit to get what I really want than rush it.

He's a PT or PTA--I thought he said PT, but then when he said where he went to school, it's only a two year program, so that didn't compute.

I just can't really picture it....

I think it's good to note that you pass out soooo quickly upon standing and really need to have that system in place. I'm picturing you crawling to the front seat of the car!

[EarthMother]

My new chair arrived today! Yeah. It is everything I wanted (for the price I could afford! ;-)

A rigid chair (even a used one that I could budget) just won't fit in our tiny Prius. So that's out.

I am particularly pleased with the 16" seat on this one, as opposed to the 18" seat on my last chair. I had initially opted for the extra room because I thought that would help me fold my legs up. But it makes it decidedly harder on the arms.

I really really like the elevating leg rests! They are only 2 and a half pounds -- which is lighter than my last standard pair! For now, I even took off the foot rests and just cuddle up my feet on the elevated shin guards. (They are really sturdy.)

I'm in a potshole since last week and haven't been able to do much of anything at all ... but I had a break in the surge this afternoon and took advantage of the opportunity to get outside and push myself around our cul d'sac. It was wonderful. As soon as my leg rests were snapped on my not-so-little dog jumped up in my lap and we were off! Even with her added 15-20 pounds, this new chair is so much lighter and manauvers so much better than the rental I had.

And the purple trim is simply awesome!

I hope you get everything you want and more!!

~EM

[DancingLight]

EM,

Hurray!!!!!! I'm so glad you got your new chair so quickly!

How tall are you? Just wondering since you have been talking about the seat size--Did you do 16" by 16"?

So glad your dog goes for a ride with you...So far Asher is afraid of the loaner chair we have and barks at it. Great, huh?!

I have been contemplating the elevated leg rests vs. not...as I know some people have opted for them, and others have not. When you are wheeling yourself are you able to keep your legs elevated? Or just when you are being pushed?

I loved being able to cross my legs in the one he brought, but I forgot to check if I could cross them while 'in motion'! Oops!

I was not prepared for all of the questions I would need to ask, so I'm just going to need to slow down and figure out what it is that I really need so I can be as happy as you are when it arrives!

Color is super important!!!! So glad yours is stylin'!

Thanks, from the 'other em'

[EarthMother]

Ok, here's a pic from my daughter's cell phone and 101 ways to use a wheelchair that is WRONG! So please don't anyone try this at home.

My elevating leg rests adjust quickly and easily from ground to straight out in front of me. I'm in a bad flair at the moment so I didn't feel good to have my legs too far away from my chest. So what I opted to do today was to disconnect the foot rests (easy to do) and just crouch on the shin guards. My old chair use to always feel like I wasn't balanced -- and would actually be prone to tipping backwards! But this one is solid, and I was up and down inclines and sidewalks without ever feeling I was losing my balance. And yes, I have no problem tooling around with my legs raised, at least not this way.

In my old chair, if I didn't have my legs tucked up under me, I would tend to just use a single foot rest and pretzel one leg around the other ... not sure if you can see that in this picture last month...

As for specs, (I'm 5'5") my new chair is:

(Frame Width & Depth) 16"x16"

(Seat-to-Floor Height) Hemi; 17-1/2"

(Back Type) Adjustable Height Back w/ 10 Degree Bend

(Arm Type) Desk Length Fixed Height Space-Saver

(Legrests) Hemi Swingaway Elevating with composite footplates

(Rear Wheels) 24" Composite w/Urethane Tires

And of course deep purple!

I hope my body behaves and lets me get out to the park for a bit with my new wheels tomorrow.

~EM

[DancingLight]

EM,

The pictures are PRICELESS! They probably don't recommend bare feet either! You really crack me up.

Thanks for the specs!!!

I can't believe the things we ANS folks do to make things work...it's always reassuring to know there are other folks finding these crazy was to keep blood to the brain!

Hope you get a ride tomorrow in the nice weather...

em

[flop]

Hi Em,

well done for deciding that you need to ask more questions - get them to bring you a rigid chair to try, it is the only way you can compare them.

My chair is a rigid frame with quick release wheels and a folding backrest. Mostly I get out of the chair, fold the back down, unclip the wheels and put them in the boot / back seat, then put the frame in the passenger seat and walk round to the drivers side.

I have a friend with the same chair who is paralysed from the waist down. His technique is park chair next to drivers seat, slide into the car, put the back of the car seat down (like you are going to lie flat). He then reaches out and removes the wheels - puts them in the back seat by reclining himself and lifting them past himself, he then lifts the frame onto his knee and then over into the passenger seat.

It very much depends on how many people are going to be in the car, how big your car is and where you want to store the chair. I have had a folding chair on loan but I have a small 3 door car with a medium sized boot - the only way that the folding chair would fit in was if I put the backseat flat to make the boot much bigger. My rigid chair actually fits much easier and I can still fit 2 passengers in the car with me and the chair.

Stability - a good rigid chair should be equally stable as a folding one.

Push handles - both types of chair should allow you to have a high-enough backrest so that you can have sensible height handles. My chair was designed for me by a paraplegic and he discouraged me from having a high backrest (said I would have better posture and manouverability with a low back). If I were to ever get another chair I would probably get a higher backrest. I may get stroller handles fitted to mine (stick up above the chair back to give higher handle height - like what they put on kid's wheelchairs).

Colour - it is a great opportunity to customize / make a fashion statement - mine's metallic purple!

Picture - does anyone know if you can put a picture on here if it isn't on a website?

Picture - this one is the same model as mine:

Flop

[DancingLight]

Thank you flop!!!

It helps a lot to hear how you manage with a rigid chair and how it fits in your car, etc.

I do need to slow the process down. I feel like the dude is great, but also in a hurry to get it taken care of. I want my chair ASAP too, but I want to make a good decision so I can really enjoy it! Time to step back and see what other resources I can pull in and do my research.

Speaking of research, I agree with Melissa that the Choosing a Wheelchair book is great.

I went on an outing today in the standard chair we got on loan. Even my mom can barely lift it in and out of the car and barely push me in it! It's that heavy. The ultra lightweight is going to feel like a sports car!

Emily

[morgan617]

Hi Emily,

I have a very light transport chair for when I go out and about. I don't have the strength to push myself anymore, so it has 4 tiny wheels and fits in our Yaris. Which is a very tiny car!

I use my power chair around the house, which is much larger and far more complicated. It used to fit in our Neon and Dave says it will fit in the smaller car with some effort, but since I can't move myself, it's pretty much a moot point. If I have to be pushed, and therefore never go anywhere alone, there's no need for the power chair outside of the house.

Since I paralyze, not faint, Dave is way too concerned I will do it in the middle of an intersection and just be stuck there, so the big chair doesn't go outside anymore. The tiny one is 15 pounds. It is a life saver. I really don't understand the rigid part and stuff that you guys are talking about. My chairs are both pediatric size. My little one only cost about 200 bucks and we've had it 4-5 years, but the power chair is another story altogether! Hope you find the perfect one and of course the right colors! Mine is red hot cherry...zooooom. morgan

[flop]

Hi Morgan,

it sounds like your transport chair is just right for your needs when not at home in the power chair.

I'll try to explain folding vs rigid chairs. Most self-propel and attendand propelled chairs are of the folding variety. When not being sat in you can lift the fabric of the seat and fold the chair so that the arm rests, wheels and handles move towards each other (whole chair ends up about 30cm wide when folded). The underneath of the chair usually has a frame with an "X" pattern. Rigid chairs have a solid underseat frame - if you look at the pic in my previous post you can see a solid metal camber bar between the wheels of the chair. The rigid chairs usually have quick release wheels and may have a backrest that folds down onto the seat but they stay at full width.

To transport a folding chair it would normally lay flat in the car boot. A rigid chair usually "sits" on the car seat with the moulded footrest part hanging down into the footwell.

Flop

[flop]

A traditional / basic folding wheelchair:

A modern folding chair:

and a rigid chair:

look carefully at the frame under the seats.

Flop

[flop]

I've just found this website that reviews wheelchairs, it is a UK site but a lot of the chairs are available in the USA.

Flop

[morgan617]

Thanks flop! My transport chair is the traditional, except all the wheels are very tiny. It folds up into very small places. My power chair comes apart, but it's a pain. I wish I could propel myself. Sometimes when out I will use my feet to push muself, but that about causes a faint too..what a weenie. They have so much neat stuff now to help, it's too bad it costs so much, though! morgan

[Lgamez3]

Just wondering.....do most POTS patients end up using wheel chairs? I know I am not able to go to any store that does not have a motorized cart available....my older daughters drive me there and my 7 yr old son "drives" the cart on my lap.....I am still not used to this, I feel Im too young for all of this....Im only 39

[morgan617]

Lots of people don't use these things. More don't than do. Some of us just reach a point where there's no other choice. So don't worry yet! morgan

[Sunfish]

yep - as mamamorgan said it's definitely not "most"; the folks who are most severely/ seriously affected are going to be the ones who chime in to the discussions. and are going to be people who - in addition to people newer to diagnosis - are most involved on message boards like this. as such, to someone observing the overall population, so to speak - whether in terms of wheelchair use or anything else - is going to often appear much "sicker"/ disabled/ limited than it truly is statistically speaking. some of us chiming in to the wheelchair discussions (including me) have diagnoses other than &/or in addition to "just" POTS too (not that POTS isn't PLENTY to deal with itself! certainly i am NOT trying to imply that it's not!!)

i certainly know what you mean in terms of feeling "too young" for the motorized cart, etc. but at the same time it's important - as you seem to be doing - to not let that issue keep you from doing/ utilizing whatever will help you be as active as possible, get out & about, etc. i'm 29 and - amongst other things - i certainly wouldn't have EVER believed that i would be getting fitted for my first wheelchair at 24/25 &/or a reclining power chair at 27; and that's only the mobility-related stuff! but you do what you have to do, ya know? b/c while i definitely have my moments/ days of hating the whole ordeal, for the most part i'm thankful/ glad to be able to get out at all & to simply still be alive, a perspective i suppose i "earned" after a year & a half period wherein i couldn't get out at ALL & came very close to dying more than once. but i digress. what i'm getting at is that - most days - i'm thankful that i have the wheelchair(s) i do b/c i'd otherwise be 99.9% homebound. don't get me wrong that i'm still stuck at home WAY more than i'd like, but without my chair(s) i would never be able to get out anywhere at all. along those lines i have known people who stay home more than they otherwise would have to solely b/c they don't want to deal with using a chair/ scooter & - however tough it can be to use any sort of chair/ scooter/ walker/ etc. - i find it much sadder (is that a real word?!) when folks miss out on more than necessary b/c they can't/ won't take the plunge. which i realize is far more commentary than you asked for. i'll shut up now:-).

bottom line (aka answer to your question) is that no, "most" folks with POTS/ dysautonomia don't end up needing to use wheelchairs.

hope that helps clarify,

melissa