jpjd59

Thanks Issie!!

Well, I didn't expect to start discussing herbs and nutrition so soon after my arrival! In the course of searching for answers for my own and others' health issues for a while now, I got into herbs, did some schooling, and started a small business a few years ago.

Long story short, I've got a few wholesale distributors that I've been working with and I discovered that one of them actually had the bark, so I placed an order. I couldn't find it through any of the normal channels locally or online in a small amount to try it first, so I have a whole pound coming! I'll post an update once it has arrived, and I check it for quality and purity. I may be able to ship out a few samples or something to that effect.

I'm planning to make a tincture (alcohol extract) of it, which helps preserve its strenth as well as allow for easy dosing. The amount of alcohol in a dose is very minimal and shouldn't bother anyone that is sensitive to drinking. As a matter of fact, breakdown of certain foods is likely to produce more alcohol than the amount in a dose of a tincure.

In all honesty, I have not found a large amount of information on Eucommia as compared to some of the other herbs I use. Whether or not it would be a mast cell degranulator is a very interesting question, but may not be fully able to be confirmed without trying some. I would think that for anyone that has a hyperadrenergic state and MCAS that the degranulation effect of the Beta blockade would be less than that caused by the adrenal rushes, as long as there was no allergic reaction. Beta blockade may also be effective in combination with Histamine (H1/H2) blockade.

--- Time passes, lots of research papers and studies read.... ---

Interestingly enough, and this is part of why I love herbs SO much, Eucommia contains a iridoid glycoside called Aucubin. A research paper I referenced states that Aucubin is a specific inhibitor of NF-kappaB activation in mast cells, which might explain its beneficial effect in the treatment of chronic allergic inflammatory diseases. So, cutting through the jargon, this appears to say that Aucubin in Eucommia actually prevents activation of mast cells. This suggests that it may not have the same side effects of Beta blockers for those with dys and MCAS, but rather it may be beneficial for both.

This is part of what makes herbs so superior - the fact that they are naturally built with numerous active ingredients, co-factors, and supportive nutrients. This is a great part of why they are so much more biologically friendly and do not have the numerous side effects of using a single chemical substance.

While we're on the topic of MCAS, Quercetin actually is bioflavonoid which blocks mast cell and basophile histamine degranulation. It is sold as a supplement isolated from plants, though my first preference is to use foods that contain the substance as they have many other valuable co-factors that are missing in an isolate. Bee pollen, onions (especially red ones and in the outermost rings), black/green tea, citrus, and tomatoes are a few sources rich in quercetin. It also has MAO-A, MAO-B inhibiting properties as well. Interestingly enough, recent studies showed that organically grown vegetables had higher concentrations, so another reason to buy organic.

Hope this sheds some light on the subject, and thanks for prompting me to do a bunch more reserach on Eucommia. This will be very helpful for an eventual formulation, as well when I am assist others in the use of herbs! I learned a lot!

Zap:

Regarding Quercetin: I understand that this blocks mast cell degranulation. I read somewhere that it increases NE levels. Is this true? So if someone is hyperPOTS with MCAS would this help or hurt?

Such great news that you are feeing better!!! When your symptoms got bad last summer, was there a specific "trigger" (i.e., a virus???)

May I ask what meds you are on?

I think now I have gotten to the point where I realize I am probably stuck with this for the rest of my life and that somehow I am just going to have to cope (I owe it to my son) my specialists have gone from telling me 1-2 yrs for improvement to benign chronic long term illness and the list of secondary issues keep getting longer. I guess I can handle having to live with this new life but what my personality doesnt allow is the not knowing why? I have to know the cause...its how my brain works.....I am a huge believer in cause and effect. I just wish more dr's cared about the why.......if their lives were drastically altered over a couple of years for no reason and to the point that they couldnt hold a job, friends or anything the slight bit fun or stressful, I bet they would want answers ;(.....sorry to ramble...bad day lol!

Bren

Bren:

This is the place to vent! We all have those bad day where everything seems hopeless and it is on this forum where people understand what you are feeling.

Hope tomorrow is a better day!!!

Pam

This is such great news and gives me such hope that my daughter will get better soon!!!!

Clair:

I am so sorry to hear that you are going through this. I know it is very frustrating trying to find a diagnosis (and then a doctor that knows what to do once you have been diagnosed). If you are able to at all, I would definitely try to get in with a doctor who specializes in autonomic disorders (either a neurologist or cardiologist). My daughter went to over 15 doctors before she got a diagnosis. . Don't give up!!!!

http://duiyaoonline....rbs/duzhong.htm

More info on DuZhong.

Be aware, it is a potent anti-hypertensive and can cause hypotension.

"The ethanol extract of the herb increases heart rate and contraction amplitude. The herb exhibits a marked cardiotonic action."

Firewatcher:

Thanks

http://duiyaoonline....rbs/duzhong.htm

More info on DuZhong.

Be aware, it is a potent anti-hypertensive and can cause hypotension.

"The ethanol extract of the herb increases heart rate and contraction amplitude. The herb exhibits a marked cardiotonic action."

Firewatcher:

Thanks! After researching what I can about it I think we are going to hold off. My daughter's primary doctors don't know enough about it to risk trying it.

Zap:

Thanks for all of your research. I hope someone with MCAS that has tried eucommia bark joins in on this topic. I would love to know if it made their MCAS symptoms worse or better (we were just at the ER last night for a reaction to a med so I don't think we are ready to try anything new yet).

Hi,

I'm just starting out here as a member, but I thought I should reply to this topic. I'm a trained herbalist, and I actually have some Eucommia Bark on its way to me, and am very curious to try it.

Eucommia is a Nonselective Beta blocker, so it is similar in action to some of the others I have seen used for both migraine and dysautonomia.

I have been trying to find this herb for months. None of my local stores have it. Where did you order it from? Also, would you happen to know - since this is like a beta blocker ---would it degranulate mast cells like betas do? Since I have MCAS and can't take betas - wondering, since it's an herbal if it would have the same reaction. Although, it sure sounds like it would help. Rehumania is much easier to find and is in a whole lot of chinese mixtures. Rama has been talking about these two herbs for awhile and even though he says he has taken them for years - they must not be ALL he needed cause I know he's added some meds to his routine in the last half year. But, it sure sounds like it might help, still looking for my purple bandaid. I hope I can find the Eucommia bark.............

Issie

Issie:

Me too. I have called my local health food store and they don't carry it. I do see that it can be ordered on-line but I don't much about this herb so I don't know which website is best to order through. Also, I had the same question as you since we suspect that my daugther is dealing with a mast cell issue and I am not sure if this would help or make her worse (like beta blockers do). Let me know if you find out anything about this. Thanks!

Pam

My daughter had this happen to her. Luckily she had a thick head of hair to begin with. It all started with POTS - not sure what caused it. It seems to have slowed down now, perhaps because she is on multiple vitamin supplements.

Brenda:

That is such great news!!! As a parent of a daughter who has POTS I know how good this must feel to see your daughter enjoying life again.

Pam

Jennij:

My daughter went to the Mayo Clinic in Arizona. They are great for getting all the autonomic testing, etc. done but I would suggest that you find a doctor close to home to help with the follow up (maybe they could do phone consults with Mayo after you have been there). We found it was just too hard to travel back and forth.

We were told that it is easier to get in to the Mayo in Arizona in the summer and in to the Mayo in Minnesota in the winter).

Hope that helps!

Pam

Just wondering if anyone has tried Eucommia Bark? (I heard it is supposed to act as a natural beta blocker). I would love to know if you had any improvement or side effects.

Kayla:

You are an amazing girl!! I'm glad you have a plan now. Hope you are feeling better soon.

Kayla:

Sorry I couldn't answer you sooner. By now you probably are already back from your doctor's appointment. I hope it went well and I hope you are feeling better real soon.

Pam

I love the water and swimming, but I can get cramping in my intestines. Going to the beach soon to swim. Plenty of fluids and umbrella for sure!! Glad you do so well in the water. I'm taking some anti nausea meds for a sail at sunset!! After a year on meds and supplements, I'm somewhat better, so I'm hoping and praying for the best on this trip with my hubby It's our 30th year wedding anniversary...

Kimbellgirl:

Happy anniversary - have a great sail at sunset!!!

LMG:

Sorry to hear that you are not feeling well. My daughter (23 years old) also had a sudden onsest (after a virus) a year ago. She is still not able to function (basically homebound except for doctor's appointments). She also takes B12, magnesium and Vitamin D supplements. At her last doctor's appointment they told her it would probably be another year (or two) before she recovers completely. .

I know how frustrated you must feel. Don't give up!!!!

Brenda:

So glad to hear that your daughter is doing better. It gives all of us parents of potsies hope that our children will soon be better.

So glad to hear that you are home and safe.

Pam, I'm getting ready for company coming in for the week. Would love to help you with this, but don't have time to do that right now.

A lot of what of experienced I've already posted. So search my post for ivig and they will pop up. That will give you a start. IVIG is used for GB, but usually at the time of the attack. We did have one member who developed stiff persons syndrome after her gb attack. Last I heard she was doing pheresis for that, improved and we haven't seen her in a long time.

I was just asking about the test for drug metabolizing. Perhaps you could post that for everyone when you get a copy of the labs.

Yes, I've had improvements with the ivig, slower then the pheresis, but improvements. I think ivig is easier to do then pheresis and not as frequent. It can eventually be done in the home or subq.

But there is a lot of stuff that should be considered before starting and things to do during infusion to keep side effects down. I've already posted most of that stuff. So, please take some time to read it. You can also do your own google search for IVIG. There are also better brands then others. It should be done in a medically monitored facility in the begining in case of reaction.

This is not something to rush into and you will have to pass insurance hurdles for approval. It is an expensive treatment, most can't afford without insurance.

ArizonaGirl:

The test that the doctor gave my daughter was a CYP2 test to check for drug metabolizing.

Naomi:

The doctor believes that when my daughter had a virus back in June of 2011 that it caused Gillian Barre Syndrome which damaged nerves and when he ran some type of liver function test he said that it came back saying that my daughter has genetic problem where her liver can;t metabolize things well and that is why she has been unable to tolerate any meds. He said that normally he would start her on a steroid but since she has been unable to tolerate steroids (along with many other meds) he wants to try IVIG.

Arizona Girl:

Two years on IVIG - WOW!!! Have you noticed a big improvement in your symptoms? I would love to know the pros and cons that you have experienced with IVIG. (The doctor said that she will probably get a headache from the treatments, but beyond that I am not sure what to expect). Feel free to PM me with your experence.

Thanks!

Pam

The doctor is thinking about starting my daughter on IVIG treatments. Has anyone had any experience with this type of treatment? (Did it work, side effects, etc.) Thanks

Pam

Christy:

Thanks for posting this transcript!

Pam

Jangle:

Congratulations!!! What a great accomplishment, especially with POTS (brain fog, etc)

Tom:

Yes, after a viral illness all of the symptoms started. Because of high NE levels it has been classified as hyper-POTS.