Sore Throats And Migraines

[Katybug]

Does anyone else experience sore throats with their migraines that worsen at the end of the migraine and linger for several days? I have gone to the doctor twice now thinking I might have strep (that's how sore my throat gets), only to come up with negative strep tests. However, even the nurse practitioner I saw both times was surprised by the negative test based on how red my throat has been and the second time there was one of those white spots like you get in your throat with strep. Just wondering if this is one of those obscure migraine things or if I should be searching for a cause.

[looneymom]

Hi Katie,

Is the doctor using a rapid strep or step culture test? My son started testing positive on the rapid strep test this last year. Which threw us for a loop because he never would test positive on a rapid strep for several years. Our doctor now wants a culture test done when ever rapid shows up positive.

[Katybug]

Doing just the rapid strep. It has made me wonder if I should ask for a full culture. I used to have strep so often as a kid that they had to postpone taking my tonsils/adenoids out 3 times because I kept getting infected. I wonder if I had it so much my immune system covers it up somehow on the rapid strep test. And, based on what you have shared through the last year about your son, I wonder how screwed up I am from having strep every other month for about 3 years. Since I'm still working on issues with my neck, I'm not able to focus any energy on the next "thing" to work on with my health but I think these sore throats mean something.

[lejones1]

This is a bit different but maybe related - when my POTS was really bad last year there was 4 month period where I got horrible migraines that would last a few days at a time. And I also started getting flu like symptoms with them - fevers, body aches, sore glands. I was convinced there was something really weird going on and my neurologist admitted he'd never seen migraines cause those symptoms. They suddenly went away so I never pursued any further testing but I wonder it there's some migraine-immune system connection in some of us?

[lejones1]

And also I agree with looneymom that you should get a full culture. The type of strep that usually causes strep throat is Group A and that's all that the rapid test checks for. But in rare cases, Group B cause cause tonsillitis as well. I had Strep Group B tonsillitis a few years ago, 6 months after having mono and regular strep, and they said it was cause I had "bad tonsils" or something. If you had a history of strep maybe you'd be prone to it too.

[Katybug]

Can strep group b still effect someone that has had their tonsils/adenoids removed?

[SarahA33]

Katie,

I don't know how much this helps but I'm 28 and have unbelievably painful migraines and had strep throat 2 last year. No tonsils or adnoid removals, but I also get sinus infections and lose my voice quite frequently... They were actually thinking about sending me to an ENT before all the Epilepsy stuff started a while back. Think it's worth it? The more I think and read about it I come closer to a conclusion of seeing an allergist.

How are you feeling? Hope that you are taking good care of yourself!

[lejones1]

Katybug, I'm not sure about Group B strep without tonsils. I had mine taken out then and haven't had any form of strep since, but I would assume that if you can get regular strep without tonsils you could also get group B.

Another thought: could it be something viral? Have you ever had mono? I know it can cause really nasty sore throats, even without a secondary infection.

[Katybug]

As far as I know I've never had mono or EBV, not that it couldn't be some other viral infection. It could be some other bacterial infection for that matter. I also wonder if it is somehow linked to the Babesia or Lyme infection I had. Although tests show no current infection on those either.

I've been taking care of myself since the surgery, Sarah. It's been a pretty easy recovery actually. The jury is still out on what symptoms may or may not be fixed.

[looneymom]

Hi Katie,

Tyler still has his t's and a's. He never had them removed. When I looked up strep a long time ago it can cause ear infections and sinsus infections. When Tyer was younger he had several and was always treated with antibiotics. Could you be a strep carrier? Have you been checked or could someone else in the home be a carrier. Dogs can even carry strep.

A virus can cause a sore throat. Tyler did not respond to antibiotics the last time he tested positive on a rapid strep test. I did take him back in for a culture but he had already taken 2 of the antibiotic pills. The culture was negative. The doctor swore up and down it was strep because of the white spots. Tyler also spiked a low grade fever. However, when I usually put Tyler on antibiotics his blood pressures will stay up better. This last time, his blood pressures would not stay up. I was having to salt load all day long with him for several days. He went from taking 3 gms to 8 gms.

A virus for him is just as bad as an infection. It messes his system up and will last 10 days or longer.

[SarahA33]

I'm sure there is a ton of posts regarding this, but how many of ya'll have had pretty terrible experiences of mono/throat infections or virius'? And if you did have chicken pox, or mono too, that you can still test positive for haveing epstein barr virus?

I wonder if there was a poll on dinet done a while ago, Trying to look for it or something similar.

I had mono when I was 16, I missed my first 3 months of school and was sick for the next year.

[Chaos]

As far as the migraine- immune system relationship....I recently had an insight into this from personal experience that has me wondering even more what the connection is.

Since developing POTS, I was having around 20 migraines a month. I eventually started on topomax which definitely decreased the intensity of them but only dropped the number down to about 14-16 a month.

After further immune testing I then started antivirals. After being on them for several months, I noticed I went for about 6-8 months without a migraine at all. I didn't think it was related to the antivirals until my doc had me stop the antivirals in May and within a week, I was back to having near daily migraines. Stayed off them for a month and then restarted them and after about a week, the headaches started decreasing again.

I run really high titers to many different viruses including EBV (both IgG and IgM) even though I don't recall ever having mono.

[Katybug]

I had a terrible case of chicken pox when I was 5-6. It was one of the worst cases my peditrician said he'd seen in the way of the rash itself (but my EBV tests now show normal). I had a really bad case of Scarlet fever when I was 4 which is a strep based infection. With all the strep infections I had until the tonsil/adenoidectomy, I always had the full monty....the sore throat, inner and middle ear infection, and sinus infection.

When my immunologist tried me on what we were hoping was going to be long term moderate dose prednisone about 2 years ago, I was completely rid of all my symptoms within 36 hours and remained that way until I developed Stevens-Johnson syndrome after about 2 months in response to the prednisone, which is basically like an anaphylactic reaction. That was the end of that and over the course of a month or so the symptoms slowly crept back in. So we know suppressing my immune system makes me better but I can't do the constant prednisone now and we don't have proof of autoimmune disease so we can't use one of the other immune suppressing options.

I write all of this just to add to everyone's comments above that it seems hard to deny an immune involvement. I was actually beginning to believe I was going to be able to go back to work and my life as I knew it when I was on the prednisone.

[looneymom]

Katie Is the scarlet fever documented in your medical records? This is most likely your connection. I would think you would be able to try other immune suppressing drugs. Through research I have learned that the damage to the heart with Rhumatic Fever/scarlet fever does not always happen at the time of the infection. It can happen several years later. It sounds like you have found the immune connection.

[Katybug]

My docs know about it in that I include it in my history but I don't have the actual records from my pediatrician. He was as old at the time I was seeing him for this and has passed away so I'm not sure that there's any way to get my records....I doubt it. What is your thought process on justifying me being able to try other immunosuppressive drugs? If there's another angle to go at that with, I'm certainly willing to give it a go. But currently, we have no documentation as far as testing goes that shows any autoimmunity. I don't think the insurance company would go for even if I can make the case with my immunologist.

[looneymom]

Katie

When is the last time you had a full immunologiy work up? Sometimes this stuff will show up in this testing with the adult cases. Are you still taking medication for the Lyme? Has your immunologist ever checked you for the CD 57 marker? Google this and you should find article that explains what this marker is used to determine. Tyler has not had this done but I have always wondered what would show up.

Edit: I found the article. Maybe this would be of some use.

http://www.researchednutritionals.com/information.cfm?ID=200

[Katybug]

Thanks for the article. I know I've had CD57 tested but I'm pretty sure it was by Quest. Apparently that was useless. I'll have to pull out my records and double check. My C4a compliment is always off the charts which is another indicator of chronic Lyme. But it still doesn't prove autoimmunity. The best I can do with the C4a test is maybe convince someone to give me more antibiotics which is like pulling teeth. The docs are more willing to give me narcotic pain meds than antibiotics.

I truly feel like I'm juggling so many, too many, diagnoses and trying to untangle which symptoms are from which thing is overwhelming. I'm not giving up, I'm just a little befuddled right now as to which thing to go after. I don't like addressing multiple things at once because then we don't know what's working, not working, causing side effects, etc.. To complicate this, the neurosurgeon had to make an executive decision during my surgery and only fixed one of the 4 levels in my neck that are questionable. It was the right decision at the time but I think I will need further surgery to fix more levels. I meet with him at the end of the month so I'm going to press on making a decision about this as I don't want to start changing other things until I know if we're doing more surgery. Brain fog doesn't help sorting out the vast body of information and deciding how to prioritize either. I'm thinking maybe I need to write out a summary and a list of basic questions I want each of my specialists to read and answer. Maybe they will have some insight if I can get all my thoughts about the multiple diagnoses/possibilities organized.

[looneymom]

Katie, it does sound like you have several doctors that will work with you. Would any of them check for an autoimmune antibody that could be associated with any of your diagnosises? If they are close minded to this suggestion then maybe you could prove it through research. Will your doctor's think out of the box?

[looneymom]

Hi Katie,

I found an article online but I cannot copy and paste because it is put into a word document. I don't know how to post it as a full document. It is entitled "Field hearing of the Senate Committee on Health, Education. Labor, and Pensions addressing Lyme and tick-borne illnesses, Chaired By Senator Richard Blumenthal (D-CT), Thursday, August 30th 2012, UConn-Stamford, Connecticut. This article was written by Amiram Katz MD. This doctor gives a full explanation of how this disease affects the human body and that IVIG should be considered as a treatment over steriods. Good resources are given in this article and at the end of it. I'm sure other people would like to see this if someone else can figure out how to post it on the forum.

Here are some other articles that indicate Lyme could be an autoimmune disease.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-0691.2004.00895.x/pdf

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2897967/

http://www.medpagetoday.com/Rheumatology/Arthritis/36694

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2665673/

[gjensen]

I have a chronic sore throat, and migraines. I never though to whether or not they went together. A sore throat was one of, if not, my first symptom. Then the trouble swallowing came.

I have wondered about tick borne illnesses. It has been a wile since I have been out, but I would guess a hundred plus ticks over a year or two. I spent an awful lot of time hiking (off the trail) in the southeast. Lyme is not common here, but it is not unheard of.

I always took these things in stride and never used insect repellant.

Before I got sick (in the spring) I noticed an unusually high amount of ticks. I recall thinking about how bad they were early.

I do not know a lot about Lyme, but I do know that there is more subspecies (that does not cause human disease) in the southeast than anywhere else in the States. Usually that points to origin. For example, there is more species/subspecies of rattlesnakes in the southwest (by far) than the rest of the country combined.

Lyme here is not restricted to mammals. The green anole (a lizard) has repeatedly tested positive for antibodies to Lyme subspecies. They get ticks to, but not the tick associated with Lyme disease.

I suspect that in time we will learn more than we know. I think the hype is hurting the credibility.

I would not be surprised if more chronic illness is not found to be associated with different micro organisms. In livestock Mycoplasma infections are generally chronic. There are treatments, but effective cures are rare. Mycoplasma (neither a bacteria or virus) is notorious for evading the immune system, and going dormant. Then the affected becoming symptomatic during periods of stress.

[Katybug]

Looneymom,

You are awesome! Thanks for all the info. I'll work on this .

Gjensen,

If you start doing a lot of Lyme research, you'll find that Lyme bacteria and some of the Lyme coinfections have been found in more than just the deer tick which most people believe to be the only vector of the disease. A great place to get information if you believe in chronic Lyme is ILADS.org.. And, I agree.. the hype is ridiculous. And the only people it hurts are the patients that continue to suffer.

[looneymom]

Katie and gjenson

Were you able to get to the article that I could not post? I did not think about this until this morning but that article probably is a public record. When I get the chance later today I will see if I can find it and try and post it. Or some else can if they want to do that search.I really hope there is enough here to help you get started towards a better treatment plan.

[looneymom]

Here is the link and you can also read a copy of the transcript. It's the second one under the third panel.

http://www.help.senate.gov/hearings/hearing/?id=53342b1c-5056-9502-5d05-aa0c57233aed