Is Salt Really Truly A Good Idea?

[Guest Hanice]

If you google potassium and sodium and how they work together, you will see the importance of having balanced potassium and sodium. Sodium in excess, flushes out potassium which most of us potsies are already low in. Too much or too little potassium can cause arryhtmias and all sorts of bad health. The key in my "theory" is balance. I'm just saying, look at the facts and make it out yourself. What do YOU think? Not what your doctors think. Remember medicine is pretty much in a semi neanderthal state for pots.

When I started taking potassium and magnesium, vitamin d, I stopped peeing every two seconds. I was running to the bathroom like a pregnant lady before, and now i go like a normal person after taking these supplements. Too much sodium can't be good. It just doesn't seem like it makes sense.

This is just one out of many articles you can find on this topic. http://healthyliving.msn.com/diseases/osteoporosis/potassium-and-sodium-the-dynamic-duo-1

Another thing I learned on here is that magnesium is great at keeping your heart rate, muscle spasms under control. Too much of it can give you diareah though lol! Never happened to me and I take it almost everyday. As a matter of fact, it took away these horrible spasms I was having for a while.

And also look at this.... SALT INCREASES adreNALINE! So maube those of you with "reactive hypoglycemia" are just witnessing the effects of your salt loading.? http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=salt-boosts-bp-but-via-adrenalin-12-01-11 read this stuff and tell me your opinion.

[Guest Alex]

Hanice,

I've read the entire article mentioned in the second link you have posted and yes, I did question the salt loading ideas myself for a while, but here is my take on this now after reading a bunch of related articles:

The original article written by Drs Irene and Haralambos Gavras doesn't state that salt loading is responsible for the boosting of the BP by adrenaline, but the fact that excessive salt RETENTION is responsible for that. Salt loading and salt retention are two different things. Here is a quote from the article:

"Questions about what leads to excessive salt accumulation in the first place and especially why some individuals are prone to retention of salt whereas others exposed to the same intake are able to excrete the salt and in particular the role of the kidneys in this respect constitute a totally different subject".

With POTS there are several mechanisms that the "neanderthal" medicine you're mentioning is proposing and one of them involves improper salt retention by the kidneys because of miscommunications between the adrenal glands and the kidneys. If the adrenals are not secreting the right amount of aldosterone, the kidneys are not retaining enough salt, despite the person eating a "normal" amount of salt on a daily basis.

Bottom line - while one person with or even without POTS may have a high salt intake, only a fraction of that gets to be actually retained, and that may actually bring that person closer to the amount of salt required to maintain a proper blood pressure. This is not to say that every POTS patient will benefit from ingesting large amounts of salt, but some will/do.

Please keep in mind that this is just my personal opinion and only you along with your physician can make the best decision for you. There are tests that doctors can perform and determine whether you are retaining the proper amount of salt (usually 24 h urine collections), and also something called "renin-aldsterone profiling" that can determine whether your body secretes enough aldosterone or you may benefit from florinef supplementing (florinef is synthetic aldosterone and many POTS patients call this their miracle drug).

My 2 cents,

Alex

[Guest Hanice]

But wouldn't a regular cbc that shows how your electrolytes are doing, show weather or not your sodium is okay?

All I hear people saying here is that their potassium is always low. I dont remember reading a single post from anyone on here saying their blood sodium levels were too low..

And when I say salt loading, I'm just saying eating already salty food with extra salt.

Thanks for your two cents.. lol

Your pennies are always welcomed.

[Guest Alex]

Here is 2 more pennies then Hanice (if we continue like this you're going to get rich )

A CBC has nothing to do with your electrolytes. The CBC does provide info about the types and numbers of cells in the blood (white cells, red cells and platelets). An electrolyte panel measures the level of sodium in your blood. A 24 hour urine sodium gives the doctors an idea of what happens to the sodium in your body over the entire course of a day (not an isolated measurement that can be taken after a salty snack or after refraining from eating salt for 24 hours - I'm sure you get the idea here).

When I was diagnosed with POTS my blood sodium and potassium were perfect, yet my 24 h urine sodium was extremely low. As I started taking florinef, my blood sodium was still fine, but my potassium and magnesium became low, and my 24 h sodium increased several times (I went from 70 mEq/L to 200 or so mEq/L). This would be the sodium that the kidney are eliminating, not what your body is retaining.

On a side note, low blood sodium is quite dangerous and it comes with headaches, tiredness, confusion, seizures, weakness, muscle cramps and even comatose states - definitely not a good thing to deal with.

[Katybug]

Also, people just assume that salt loading means "sodium" loading and unfortunately the doctors don't do a good job of explaining the difference. There are many types of salts....for example, Epsom Salts are a magnesium based salt. Most people salt load with just regular table salt and that probably isn't the best approach. I cook and salt with various sea salts including sea salt that is iodine enriched (because most sea salt isn't iodine enriched and you don't want to go throwing your thyroid off). This helps give me a better balance of various elements that can make up salt including potassium. I also try to make sure that I have a potassium rich diet which isn't that hard to do. Many fruits, vegetables, and legumes are rich in potassium, not just bananas...for example, a medium potato has more potassium than a banana. ( http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/food/potassium-foods.htm ) ( http://www.drugs.com/cg/potassium-content-of-foods-list.html ) You can take Epsom Salt baths and the salts will actually be absorbed through your skin...it's why my geneticist suggests this for her EDS patients since the magnesium directly impacts both inflammation and nerve conduction.

In the way of testing, at least for magnesium, the geneticist explained that blood work is a poor way to test for magnesium levels because the amount in your blood stream can vary drasctically from the amount in your cellular tissue which is where it needs to be. She said the only accurate way is biopsy and that that isn't really practical, so again, back to Epsom salt baths. If you don't want to do a whole bath she suggests doing a foot bath for 30 minutes while you're watching TV.

You are correct though, Hanice, making sure there is a balance of electrolyte intake is important. Sodium, calcium, potassium, and magnesium are all involved in muscle firing and nerve conduction in various and sundry ways. Having an imbalance in these nutrients will make you feel like ick and in extreme instances can be a serious medical emergency.

[Guest Hanice]

Here is 2 more pennies then Hanice (if we continue like this you're going to get rich )

A CBC has nothing to do with your electrolytes. The CBC does provide info about the types and numbers of cells in the blood (white cells, red cells and platelets). An electrolyte panel measures the level of sodium in your blood. A 24 hour urine sodium gives the doctors an idea of what happens to the sodium in your body over the entire course of a day (not an isolated measurement that can be taken after a salty snack or after refraining from eating salt for 24 hours - I'm sure you get the idea here).

When I was diagnosed with POTS my blood sodium and potassium were perfect, yet my 24 h urine sodium was extremely low. As I started taking florinef, my blood sodium was still fine, but my potassium and magnesium became low, and my 24 h sodium increased several times (I went from 70 mEq/L to 200 or so mEq/L). This would be the sodium that the kidney are eliminating, not what your body is retaining.

On a side note, low blood sodium is quite dangerous and it comes with headaches, tiredness, confusion, seizures, weakness, muscle cramps and even comatose states - definitely not a good thing to deal with.

Aha! I see. I guess you're right about those two tests being separate. But the cbc and the electrolyte panel are always done together at hospitals thats why I thought it was just the same test.

[kayjay]

Hanice, I hope that you are able to find a "non- Neanderthal" doctor soon.

I assure you that the recommendation to increase salt by my doctor was not "willy nilly". As I posted in another thread it is essentially a prescription. Salt is in effect a medication to treat my pots.

I remember you mentioned that an er doctor suggested that you had pots. Please understand that many of us have been diagnosed though a battery of tests. After my tilt table test, I spent a week at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester Minnesota. Doctors there were among the first to recognize POTS. Like Alex, my urine sodium was low. My potassium has never been low. I certainly would not take potassium suppliments without the supervision of my doctors. It will lower my sodium and make my syptoms much worse.

Thankfully I have doctors who know what they are talking about. Their recommendation to increase my sodium was spot on. I'm doing so much better and hope the same for you!

P.S. low blood sodium can be deadly. It's called Hyponatremia. Additionally too much potassium can be deadly. It's not a good idea to take potassium supplements without checking with a doctor. Too much potassium may cause Hyperkalemia. Potassium supplements are not recommended by Mayo (in general) but especially for anyone with heart or kidney problems in particular.

http://www.mayoclini...kalemia/MY00940

Edited September 30, 2013 by corina

[Guest Hanice]

High sodium can be deadly as well. Its called heart attack and stroke.

http://www.mayoclini...tassium/MY00760

Edited September 30, 2013 by corina

[Guest Alex]

I wouldn't go as far as stating that electrolyte imbalances are deadly - I'm living proof that you can survive low potassium and magnesium levels

Anyway, I can't emphasise enough the fact that the input of a doctor is really invaluable. I know I have had more tests than I probably wanted ever since I got sick, but there really is no better way to figure out what goes on. Neanderthal medicine or else, those doctors know more than we do, even if they don't always seem to.

Also, Katie, my doctor was very specific when he recommended salt loading - he meant table salt, good ol' sodium chloride. For what it's worth the mineral content in sea salt and even in Himalayan salts is really too low to make any difference, but I definitely think that we need the iodine for the proper functioning of the thyroid and not only. With that in mind - tachycardia is a typical sign of excess iodine intake, but that's not to conclude that anyone experiencing tachycardia has an excessive iodine intake - there are so many causes for tachy and again, it's a doctor's job (I sound like a broken record now) to help figure out what goes on.

I guess different doctors have different approaches to "salt loading", most likely depending on the needs of their patients. Magnesium helps me, but there are others who experience dangerously low blood pressure after an Epsom salts soak, so again, whatever you decide to do, please, please, please consult a real doctor. (Dr Google doesn't count here )

Take it easy everyone.

Alex

Edited September 30, 2013 by corina

[Katybug]

I agree with you Alex. Our issues are as varied as it gets and what makes good medical sense for me might be exactly not what the doctor orders for someone else.

[kayjay]

I wouldn't go as far as stating that electrolyte imbalances are deadly - I'm living proof that you can survive low potassium and magnesium levels

Anyway, I can't emphasise enough the fact that the input of a doctor is really invaluable. I know I have had more tests than I probably wanted ever since I got sick, but there really is no better way to figure out what goes on. Neanderthal medicine or else, those doctors know more than we do, even if they don't always seem to.

Also, Katie, my doctor was very specific when he recommended salt loading - he meant table salt, good ol' sodium chloride. For what it's worth the mineral content in sea salt and even in Himalayan salts is really too low to make any difference, but I definitely think that we need the iodine for the proper functioning of the thyroid and not only. With that in mind - tachycardia is a typical sign of excess iodine intake, but that's not to conclude that anyone experiencing tachycardia has an excessive iodine intake - there are so many causes for tachy and again, it's a doctor's job (I sound like a broken record now) to help figure out what goes on.

I guess different doctors have different approaches to "salt loading", most likely depending on the needs of their patients. Magnesium helps me, but there are others who experience dangerously low blood pressure after an Epsom salts soak, so again, whatever you decide to do, please, please, please consult a real doctor. (Dr Google doesn't count here )

Take it easy everyone.

Alex

I agree Alex.

I survived low sodium/high potassium. It felt pretty horrible though

Edited September 30, 2013 by corina

[kayjay]

As for "salt loading" I loved how Hanice did it with Cheetos. I don't eat them because they make me feel sick- but yummy orange non- nutritive "cheese" can be very tasty.

I personally have a secret love for "easy cheese" spray can "cheese"... I wish it was healthy

Lol

But Alex- you are absolutely correct "salt loading" means different things to different people. I had to ask how much water was ok to drink for me and got some guidelines for how add more salt to my diet.

[corina]

Hi ladies, as you may have noticed I did some editing here. Opinions do differ but this is not the place to argue over them!

[Guest Hanice]

http://www.healthline.com/health/electrolyte-disorders this should clarify a lot for you guys interested in this. Very informative!