Estrogen And Blood Volume

[friday]

I am having problems with hormones , and I was just reading about

the subject, and came across this sentence....."Estrogen can also promote sodium (salt) and water retention, increasing blood volume"

I was just wondering if anyone had their estrogen levels checked to see if they were low..possibly causing or adding to the low blood volume.

Or if possibly adding estrogen could help your blood volume?

it's just a shot in the dark but I just saw that it can help with retaining salt and water and was wondering if this information could be of any benefit. i realize hormones are not to be played around with but the connection to blood volume got me, and I recall some women her saying they got POTS after Menopause which would effect the estrogen levels.

[MomtoGiuliana]

I think this is why some women with POTS feel worse right before their period--b/c estrogen level drops?

This is a complicated issue. Definitely talk to your doctor about determining whether you need hormone therapy.

[flop]

A lot of young women with POTS notice an improvement in symptoms when taking the combined oral contraceptive pill. I guess that the additional oestrogen in the pill helps maintain blood volume more evenly through the cycle.

Flop

[pastordari]

Hummm, this is very interesting.

I've had all sorts of difficulty following an early hystorectomy with hormones.

The docs have had a hard time getting the hormones right to handle my symptoms.

Also, I have only had POTS and the like since this surgery.a

Humm, interesting to pondr.

This motivates me to make sure I take my estrogen every morning!!!!

Thanks for posting.

Dari

[juliegee]

Hmmm. Interesting thread. As estrogen drops prior to our menses, progesterone increases, right? I have lots of abnormal bleeding due to a large fibroid and my gyne put me on an oral progesterone for 10 days prior to my scheduled period to normalize things. I took it right before bed, but still noticed that I was horribly dizzy- I couldn't even get up to use the bathroom after taking the pill. Lo and behold, I checked my BP and it was 71/42. Could progesterone have the exact opposite effect that estrogen does (decreasing blood volume)and that's the reason we feel worse before our periods?

Any thoughts? Anyone else have a hard time with progesterone?

Julie

[MomtoGiuliana]

I can't tolerate BCPs--not sure why. I also had a really hard pregnancy. MAny of us seem to be affected by hormonal shifts.

[friday]

Hmmm. Interesting thread. As estrogen drops prior to our menses, progesterone increases, right? I have lots of abnormal bleeding due to a large fibroid and my gyne put me on an oral progesterone for 10 days prior to my scheduled period to normalize things. I took it right before bed, but still noticed that I was horribly dizzy- I couldn't even get up to use the bathroom after taking the pill. Lo and behold, I checked my BP and it was 71/42. Could progesterone have the exact opposite effect that estrogen does (decreasing blood volume)and that's the reason we feel worse before our periods?

Any thoughts? Anyone else have a hard time with progesterone?

Julie

I don't' know. I would say the dizziness might be a side effect of the pill but the low BP..makes me wonder. I'm going to see if I can find anything on Progesterone and blood volume etc.

[runningshoe]

Pots struck my when I was totally in menopause (estrogen level less than 10). I was only 42 (hysterectomy at 40, kept ovaries but the shut down). My dr thinks this was a factor. I am reading a great book on hormones called SCREAMING TO BE HEARD, by Elizaabeth lee Viliet. I recommend it.

[Mrs. Burschman]

Count me among those who seemed to be helped by BCP. I "blacked out" upon standing less when I was on them. But I stopped taking them because I also get migraines with auras, so birth control pills raise my risk of having a stroke by seven fold, or something like that.

So I got an IUD. It doesn't do anything for the head rush, unfortunately!

Amy

[juliegee]

I don't' know. I would say the dizziness might be a side effect of the pill but the low BP..makes me wonder. I'm going to see if I can find anything on Progesterone and blood volume etc.

I tried researching the topic. There appears to be a well documented link between progesterone and hypotension- a rare, but consistently reported side effect. Another side effect that is listed is: "dizziness." What is that? Another name for hypotension? Yep, I was dizzy because my BP was so dang low. I didn't find any info on progesterone and blood volume. Let me know if you find anything.

Julie

[friday]

I don't' know. I would say the dizziness might be a side effect of the pill but the low BP..makes me wonder. I'm going to see if I can find anything on Progesterone and blood volume etc.

I tried researching the topic. There appears to be a well documented link between progesterone and hypotension- a rare, but consistently reported side effect. Another side effect that is listed is: "dizziness." What is that? Another name for hypotension? Yep, I was dizzy because my BP was so dang low. I didn't find any info on progesterone and blood volume. Let me know if you find anything.

Julie

Okay I did a little searching last night and I did find quite a few places that said

" Estrogen enhances salt and water retention while progesterone is a natural diuretic".

quoted from: http://www.drlam.com/A3R_brief_in_doc_form...n_Dominance.cfm

and: http://lammd.com/A3R_brief_in_doc_format/p...e.cfm#Functions

So that would make sense that Progesterone could cause a low BP. If you lose salt, you're BP lowers.

I also found a few places that had something to say about the two them together:

"Elevated progesterone and estrogen levels cause blood volume and cardiac output to increase; as a result, pulmonary blood flow increases. ..."

quoted from: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/524442_5

"Elevated progesterone and estrogen levels cause blood volume and cardiac output to increase; as a result, pulmonary blood flow increases."

But many people praise estrogen's vascular benefits on the basis of tests showing increased blood velocity in large arteries such as the aorta, without evidence that more blood is being circulated. With aging, as arteries become constricted, increased blood velocity is taken as evidence of the pathology. Velocity measurements have to be interpreted in the contexts of tissue perfusion, cardiac output, etc. When the diameter of the artery is considered along with the velocity of the blood, the volume of flow can be determined, and then it appears that progesterone increases blood flow, while estrogen can decrease it. [Dickey and Hower, 1996.]

quoted from: http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/aging-es...gesterone.shtml

So I'm gonna have to read more on this blood flow stuff. there was also an article on how estrogen/Progesterone works on the stroke rate of the heart which effects the blood flow/volume.

I am not feeling well enough to absorb this stuff right now, and a lot of the papers that mention blow flow have a lot of medical jargon in them so I am really not up to that right now.

So maybe I will bring some to my CFS doc next time I see her and maybe she can make sense of it for me.

I know a lot of this stuff is not set in concrete. Just like some people are for HRT's and some against. It gets confusing.

But it does seem there are quite a few sites that say Estrogen enhances salt and water retention while progesterone is a natural diuretic..just as plainly as that.

Hope I didn't just confuse things more.

I definitely want to research this further though since I feel my periods were having a huge effect on how I felt.

Now after an oopherectomy ( removal of the ovaries) I am feeling better in that I don't have that horrible plunge every month. And I dont' have the horrible PMDD , and pain, but I feel just generally a bit weaker all through the whole month. So I'm considering if I should get Estrogen replacement therapy. My doctor had mentioned Progesterone and I think now in my case I have to be careful of that. might not be the best choice for someone with P.O.T.S.

It's difficult because most GYno's have no idea what P.O.T.S. is.

thanks for bringing up that reaction you had to the Progesterone.

[friday]

Pots struck my when I was totally in menopause (estrogen level less than 10). I was only 42 (hysterectomy at 40, kept ovaries but the shut down). My dr thinks this was a factor. I am reading a great book on hormones called SCREAMING TO BE HEARD, by Elizaabeth lee Viliet. I recommend it.

Did you take any HRT's or estrogen replacement?

I've heard of the book . I will have to check the libraries for it.

Why are we screaming to be heard? And why are so few hearing us?? Why are sooo many women suffering with hormonal issues and doctors don't really know much about it.

[friday]

I find this link between hormones and POTS very interesting because I don't really think doctors who treat CFS and POTS don't necessarily look at the link between these two and women's hormonal shifts.

What I mean is I have seen a doctor for CFS and POTS treatment, and he's a good well known doctor, and yet, he says to go to a gyno for my hormonal problems ..yet the Gyno knows nothing of POTS.. They are both treating them as separate issues..

Doesn't it makes sense that the two should be looked at together? Especially since it the majority of CFS and POTS patients are women.

I feel like if the doctors that are studying POTS and CFS aren't including research into women's hormones they are missing part of the picture. I could be wrong there could be studies on this subject but I don't really see it. If anyone does see any studies like this please post a link to it.

[juliegee]

Ms. Friday-

You pose some very interesting questions and have lots of insightful info. Thank you for doing that research. Oral progesterone had a very dramatic effect on me and the "diuretic effect" could explain it. My BP was so low, I felt like I couldn't breathe. I was too affected to do anything other than sleep and usually awoke feeling OK. I endured it for 10 days per my gyne's orders. It took me anbout a month to start feeling like myself.

I agree that the relationship between OIs, CFS and hormones is a very promising area for research. My son at 12 y/o was DXed with NMH. He underwent a major growth spurt during that time- 6 inches in one year. Major hormones, too, I would guess. Since his growth has slowed, (he's now 6' 1") he's much better. He's also on lots of blood volume boosting meds that help. I don't notice the huge swings in HIS illness that I and so many other women here experience. In other words, he found a treatment plan that works pretty reliably. For us gals, maybe because of the constant change in hormone levels, some days our meds work and some days they don't.

Friday, you face a pretty tough decision. My gyne also knows nothing of POTS and I will fairly soon be facing the same decision you are- I'm 45. My Mother and Grandmother (both also have dysautonomia- not formally DXed) and still at 70 and 90 suffer with hot flashes. They each have done some HRT at various times with some success....but the data is constantly changing & it's so hard to know what's right for each of us. The joke is, everything you read about HRT always ends with, "talk with your doctor about the RIGHT choice for you." What do you do when your doctor doesn't have a clue?

Julie

[shannon]

Absolutely! I think there is a huge gap in care for women with POTS, and that's hormone issues. When I told my well-known POTS specialist that my symptoms are horrible during my period, he jusy nodded and said, "That happens". When I talk to my gyno about it, she knows nothing about POTS and dismisses the symptoms.

I tried Oral contraceptives, and they did help the dizziness, fatige, and pooling --- but they triggered horrible migraines.

You'd think that this would be a larger area of concern since 80% of POTS patients are women!

Thanks for starting this topic .... it's an important one.

Take care!

[doctorguest]

Mack's Mom,

I can only relate to you and others information regarding the issue of Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) - which is not the same as birth control pills. Major research studies performed within the last few years have shown that HRT use is associated with an increased risk of heart disease, stroke and venous thrombosis - the opposite of what doctors thought about HRT in the past. Thus, in post or peri-menopausal women, the physicians in the United States currently do not recommend the use of HRT for prolonged periods of time. Short-term use may be more reasonable, but it also has to be weighed against the risks.

[goldicedance]

Also an increased risk of certain breast cancers.

[runningshoe]

Hi all

Friday - Since I had my ovaries I did not take hormones until this year when I completely crashed and my gyno recommended hormone testing. I am using the patch, vivelle .05 estradiol. I know there is a lot of conflicting data about the risks but if I hadn't had the hyster than I would still have estrogen running through my body. I am only 43 so I should still have estrogen in me. There was no doubt that the lack of estrogen was affecting my health. My interstitial cystitis returned after over 12 years of remission two months after pots knocked on my door.

I am a happy positive person but when I hit my all time estrogen low, I wanted to lie down and die. The book Sceaming to Be Heard does not speak about pots but she covers a lot of relevant topics. Why do we need to scream to be heard I don't know. When I first was being "worked up" for pots I asked if I should have my hormones tested. Dr brushed off my question. Specialists look at what they know and not enough know about how hormones factor in.

I am rambling and its time for bed. Keep on screaming! (But not too loud it makes me more POTSY!!)

[smiles]

Just in the last few months i went back to my endo for hormone testing again cuz of worsening symptoms around periods (was skipping periods by then, am in premenopause). I was getting horribly weak to the point I couldn't get out of bed and then had convulsions at the end of my period. Doc said as I was entering menopause my estrogen was dropping and causing all these symptoms of my ANS flaring up. I was already on bioidentical estrogen, progesterone and testosterone that I can not live with out--serioulsly! Labs showed low estrogen. He put me on a triestrogen cream to rub on my inner arms daily and then double it at the beginning of my period and for a few days afterward. I works like a charm. Well, not that good. But it sure does help me a lot. My cardio is pleased too! I still take my other hormones too. The sharp drop in estrogen, which is what brings on our periods, is the same thing that was throwing of my ANS. Hope this helps. It was a life saver for me and my family. Smiles