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Norepinephrine/epinephrine normals?


kmpower
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Hi everyone.

These questions are for those who have had norepinephrine testing, tilt table and otherwise. My girlfriend with new palpitations took a test and a class on neurotransmitters and we have been comparing experiences and notes. Like in everything, there are different opinions. But the laboratories doing neurotransmitter testing for nutritional reasons don't think about the orthostatic changes.

If you have had norepinephrine and/or epinephrine testing not on the TT, was it blood or urine?

Do you have results and interpretations, and especially the normals that the labs stated? I ask this because many labs apparently say you should have more norepi than epi in blood, but newer research (which I am trying to get) says that epi should be 10X higher. Norepi apparently raises BP but epi lowers it. (Is that why our bodies raise norepi? Is it trying to keep BP up into levels which our brain needs? Is that why the body doesn't de-methylate the protein for norepi reuptake?)

I had urine testing in the beginning because they thought I had an adrenal tumor and that shows the levels, but I don't know what my blood levels are. When I get my TTT I am going to try to get these tests.

Last question: if you had norepi and epi tested on TT, do you have your results, interpretations and lab normals?

Sorry if my questions are too long or complicated. I am trying to make sense out of different things I learn and you are the experts.

OLL

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Hi,

I had my EPI and NE tested about 8 times and they always came out very abnormal.

The NE in a normal person is about x5 higher than the EPI.

NE increase BP and I was told that high EPI decreases BP.

I had my catecholamines tested on the TT and walking around or standing still (not on TT). The rssults don't differ significantly.

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Yeah I definitely don't think that Epi should be 10X higher than NE....

I've had lots of catecholamine blood testing, and for example, during a posture study my lying epi was 7, standing 14. lying NE was 233, standing was 1000. Supposedly that relates to why my (and some of our) BP increases so much when I stand. It's normal for the numbers to go up when standing but I'm not sure how much, and it might vary depending on what authority you talk to! (This I know since I spent a night trying to research the normal values, and every site was different!) The normal increase, though, raises BP slightly to conform to the change in gravity and maintain homeostasis. I don't know about de-methylating protein for NE reuptake, though...

My sister majored in neurscience and behavioral biology, and I'm not saying she's a real authority, but when I was talking about my results with her she explained that epinephrine (adrenaline) production is so basic to animals that as much as evolution has made other things being screwed up more likely in humans (fx), it's very unlikely to have real problems with your epinephrine levels. norepinephrine on the other hand, is another story!

Does that help at all? :D

B)

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Thanks, Lucky and Ernie. The numbers help me. I think that William Ferril is the author of books on the topic, and I will try to get them. One is called Glandular Failure-Caused Obesity and one is called The Body Heals. He writes that conversion from norepi to epi requires my good friend folic acid and some co-factors.

Those of us with high blood pressure and high renin levels apparently have way too much norepinephrine and way too little epinephrine. I know my renin is high. I didn't put this stuff together until reading the thread on the Baker Institute study.

OLL

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The norepinephrine test would have to be a blood test in order to be useful in POTS, because you need to know how the levels change within a minute or so, as your norepinephrine levels spike when you stand up. The values from a urine test would represent averages over however many hours it took for the urine in the bladder to accumulate.

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I had my serum catecholamines tested this past Tuesday and am waiting for the results. I'll let you know.

Two things, if anyone can clue me in:

1. They refused to do the test standing, they said sitting is upright. Is that valid? (I'm waiting to hear from Dr. G's office about that. If is wasn't valid, they will re-do it for free. :) Right? :()

2. When I was supine, and she put the needle in (which I have had done many times, and doesn't phase me) I felt like a bolt of lightning went down my arm into my thumb and first two fingers (which still hurts/shocks.) What the heck was that? :) I've never had this before, but I was quite certain that it changed my blood chemistry!! I was also having a morning cortisol done at that needle stick. I'm curious to see the result.

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