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Post-Exertional Blood Pressure Drop Attenuated Via Antihistamines?


green

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Has anyone been following this research suggesting that histamine receptors mediate the post-exertional drop in blood pressure in athletes with fainting issues?

"There is reason to believe that histamine is the primary vasodilator contributing to post-exercise hypotension, but we cannot say for certain,"

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2006-10/uoo-htt101006.php

It makes me wonder if I could just take a cocktail of OTC anti-histamines before I run to avoid post-exertional malaise. 

 

 

 

Edited by green
non well-formed sentence.
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  • 8 months later...

I've been trying it. I ran my dosage on fenoxadine up to 540 mg and my ranitidine dosage is at 150 mg.

It doesn't seem to stop post-exertional malaise. I've been told that blood pools in my legs after exercise, so I will hope to increase my benefits by combining anti-histamine pre-treatment with a more exaggerated cool-down, increased stretching, and icing.

It's frustrating - this morning I rode the bike for 40 minutes. Then I was careful to warmdown for 10 and stretch my legs, including stretching them while elevated above my head (to discourage pooling) and yet, despite all this, at 3 PM I started to feel so tired that I doubt I will get much more work done today. Frustrating, indeed. 

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Hi green

I don't know if this is helpful at all , I have CFS VVS and POTS exercise intolerance ,post exercise malaise was one of my most difficult symptoms due to my job.

Although I still suffer with muscle joint pain and fatigue it is manageable!  I found keeping a very close watch on my heart rate so it doesn't exceed 115 has helped . This includes all daily activities so if I wake up and HR is high I know I have to have a very quiet day and plan what I am doing very carefully . On those days I still exercise but it tends to be slow controlled movements.

It has taken four years for me to be able to even exercise as what I would say is half of what I use to do but I stay positive I will get there eventually 

I also found Epsom salt bath  good and I take magnesium and Q enzyme 10. I believe midodrine has helped me recover too I have low BP 

Truely hope you can find a solution that works , it is all so frustrating ! 

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Thank you for writing! What is midodrine for? I used to take mestinon, I think it causes vasoconstriction...I can't remember if it helped much. A weird thing: sometimes I peruse the archives on this very forum and find posts I MADE where I say "blah blah X is great!" and I think "why did I stop taking X?" and I can't remember. 

I have another question for you: when you exercise past the point of making yourself feel worse, do you enjoy a multiple hour 'honeymoon' during which you feel significantly better? 

I often feel so much better for hours after exercising - less brain fog, better mood, and movement is easier - and THEN the crash comes with sleepiness, followed by worsened brain fog the next 24-72 hours. 

As an update: I DID actually get back to work yesterday - the sleepiness passed. I had some trouble sleeping last night, but I did get about 7 hours. So, maybe the routine I invented was helpful and DID something. I'll have to keep at it - I figure I can UP the amount of time I spend warming down and stretching.

Definitely woke up with stiff bloated legs though! ugh!

 

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Yes midodrine is vasoconstrictor it helped with standing once I got up to 7.5mg but it has taken a good 8 months before I started to see improvements in my ability to exercise . I have worked really hard on my sleep where I was only getting a couple of hours I now get 6 to 7 although I still wake up to visit the bathroom at least once but I do go back to sleep.  This improvement has helped with migraines and coat hanger pain mainly and although I still have loads of other problems I can cope with them , think what I'm trying to say that everything is linked to each other ! 

Oh yes I defiantly get a high when I am teaching my classes and if I get carried away I feel like I have flu the next day, it is hard when you feel good to stop I think that's the endorphins and addrellin .I was also trained to think if I'm not exhausted after ballet class I am not working hard enough , it's been difficult to retrain my thoughts on my good days.  I also get warning signs to slow down ,cramp and a heavy feeling in the muscles as if there is no energy.especially my arms . Of course ballet is very anaerobic and I think that's where the problem lies for me , I can do a long brisk walk can't jog or jump around though! I am starting this week to start step again but I shall go slowly and see how that goes ! 

There is a lot of info about on this subject on CFS / ME forums.

I just wanted to add I also notice a pattern if I feel fatigued a gentle mobility and stretching routine can make me feel better enough to tackle the evening meal or take a shower. For me resting too much makes me worse and drops my BP so I move about every hour , can take some determination when I'm feeling crappy though!

Sorry for the long rabble but I hope it's useful in some way! 

 

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Hi dancer65,

Yes, that is helpful! It is heartening to hear that other people have the same pattern as I do. When you say that resting too much makes things worse - I get that too. And, I also find that I may have trouble initiating sudden movements, but can easily ramp up to moderate exercise if it involves using the legs continually. 

The temperature just dropped from the high-80s into the 70s here in St. Louis, so I am doing a little bit better during the day right now. 

 

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Saturday I ran with a running club - 4 miles, BPM=>~160. High intensity running - up a hill, kept pace with healthy fast runners 10 years younger than me. 
Prior to running, I took my highest dose of anti-histamines yet: ranitidine 300 mg,  fexofenadine: 540 mg.
After the run, I did not stretch well according to my experimental routine - I was too embarrassed to put my legs over my head as I cooled down with the running club. 
Then I quickly consumed a v. large quantity of carbohydrates to spur recovery, by rushing to Steak N Shake and buying a shake and fries. 

That day, I started work on a new business. Did some great quality work. Very pleased with myself. 
That night, I slept well enough: 8.5 hours! It is RARE for me to sleep so well the night after a hard run! SUCCESS.

The next day, I went to church and did well standing around afterward drinking coffee and talking with the congregation; no mind-crushing brain fog.
Decided to skip exercise Sunday so as not to push my luck. 
But that afternoon, I went home to work, and I was EXHAUSTED!
And then I slept 9+ hours last night - went down in a fog, as though I had run a race earlier that day. 
And I woke up today, and I am still in a fog. It's noon and I'm just now trying to get to work. I am tired, sluggish, foggy.

The temperature has gone back up - we're back in the 90s again, so maybe that it is it?

So, I don't know if the anti-histamines are working or not.
It seems that, perhaps, they do, perhaps they just DELAY onset of the post-exertional malaise.
What a mystery!

 

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L-Citrulline is one of the things I started using, way back in 2012 (I think) before it was popular. According to my notes, it really helped me with post-exertional malaise, but I have no records or memory of why I stopped taking it!

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Hi firewater

Have you found the L Cittruling helpful in preventing muscle pain after exercise . I am back to a new term of my dancing school, a busy term as we are preparing for our annual show and I am dancing with the kids every night for a good three hours ,plus all my prep beforehand  ahhhh my poor body I  couldn't even sit still last night it hurt so much ! If I keep moving around it helps . So frustrating I feel I need to rest to recover. 

Green that sounds so like me , I know by Saturday I will be exhausted but I need to work ! 

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For me, the L-Citrulline drastically cut down on the soreness after exercise. For me, I need to take a caffeine pill as well (2 hours before) otherwise I will get light-headed. I think there are systemic reactions occurring with each substance that are special for my flavor of POTS. I have always had improvement with symptoms on Sudafed, including a reduction in tachycardia, so I'm guessing that the caffeine is giving me an energy bump and creating systemic vasoconstriction (my BP is usually very low supine, and high standing, but the caffeine makes it "normal," and reduces my tachycardia with exercise) The L-Citrulline allows me to push my muscles harder without the unnatural fatigue and reduces the amount of soreness after workouts. I've completed the Levine Protocol and have continued to push myself to exercise 1+ hour a day, almost every day for over 2 years. It became much easier with the caffeine/l-citrulline combo.

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Thank you so much for responding ! Your post is very interesting to me before I got a diagnosis I use to rely on flu plus and sudfed to get me through the really bad days I have always drunk loads of instant coffee (too much proper coffee makes me dithery!).I also take antihistamines due to allergies but I take them at night as they make me drowsy, that's helpful for sleeping

My BP has always been low but huge improvement on midodrine and although I get tachycardia it's not until it's over 130 that I feel it 

Nice to know others are experiencing same reactions , I will give the L citrulline a try , does it make any difference what time you take it in relation to your exercise regime ? 

Again thank you for sharing 

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Firewatcher,

Can you share with us what brand of L-Citrulline you use? (i'm not sure if terms of use permit us to talk about brands on this forum)

I recall now: I stopped taking supplements in general because of some research study about how commonly they contain adulterants and contaminants. I lost faith in supplements.

More recently, I've experimented with stuff made by NOW foods because they're based in the U.S. and when I started using Rhodiola Rosea (which is wonderful, but only effective for about two weeks), I bought raw cut herb.

 

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3 hours ago, green said:

Firewatcher,

Can you share with us what brand of L-Citrulline you use? (i'm not sure if terms of use permit us to talk about brands on this forum)

I recall now: I stopped taking supplements in general because of some research study about how commonly they contain adulterants and contaminants. I lost faith in supplements.

More recently, I've experimented with stuff made by NOW foods because they're based in the U.S. and when I started using Rhodiola Rosea (which is wonderful, but only effective for about two weeks), I bought raw cut herb.

 

I use "Beyond Raw Chemistry Labs" l-citrulline. It was the only "single ingredient" version that I found at GNC. It works for me after several years of experimentation with BCAA's and other supplements, so I kept with it. I've also tried straight-up watermelon puree, but it was not as potent. I have not tried other brands since this seems to work and has been proven safe with my kidney function (checked repeatedly with blood tests.) I agree that most supplements are lousy money-wasters, but whatever is in this one seems to work for me.

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