RichGotsPots Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrenergic_crisisAdrenergic stormFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Redirected from Adrenergic crisis)An adrenergic storm is a sudden and dramatic increase in serum levels of the catecholamines adrenalin and noradrenalin (also known as epinephrine and norepinephrine respectively), with a less significant increase in dopamine transmission. It is a life-threatening condition because of extreme tachycardia and hypertension, and is especially dire for those with prior heart problems. If treatment is prompt, prognosis is good; typically large amounts of diazepam or other benzodiazepines are administered alongside beta blockers. Beta blockers are contraindicated in some patients, so other anti-hypertensive medication such as clonidine may be used. It is usually caused by overdose of stimulants, especially cocaine, but can also arise from improper eating habits while taking monoamine oxidase inhibitors. A subarachnoid hemorrhage can also cause an adrenergic storm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzysillyak Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 It is a life-threatening condition because of extreme tachycardia and hypertension, and is especially dire for those with prior heart problems.Rich,what you quoted above says why it' can be deadly. so I'm not sure what you're asking ... btw tho ... did you read the cause and differential diagnosis section ? It lists foods with tyramine, serotonin syndrome, etc ...I'm still having some breathing and heart issues so I'm interested in this too .. I'm waking up with breathing problems and feeling like my heart is pounding but nothing too serious and it doesn't last. I actually spent several hours cleaning my apt yesterday. I'd been eating some fermented foods, homemade coconut kefir and sauerkraut, and stopped because I thought they might be causing problems due to bacteria. I didn't realize the tryamine connection ... Stopping this could be what helped me.I copied this in from wiki ... I'm just ignoring the drug connection given here since I "think" under certain circumstances our bodies could have this problem without drugs ... With this in mind, the importance of MAOIs to adrenergic storms is that these enzymes break down substances in food that are either precursors to stimulatory drugs, or that are themselves excitatory chemicals. Aged cheese; beer; red wine; some mushrooms; fermented products such as pickles; and many other seemingly innocuous foods can provoke a hypertensive crisis.The main culprit is tyramine, a derivative of the amino acid tyrosine that is a direct precursor to dopamine. However, other substances in food can also modulate or change the effects. Hypertension will always result, however, so patients on MAOIs must be careful what they eat.tc ... d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzysillyak Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 More on tyramine ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TyramineThe possibility that tyramine acts directly as a neurotransmitter was revealed by the discovery of a G protein-coupled receptor with high affinity for tyramine, called TA1. The TA1 receptor is found in the brain as well as peripheral tissues, including the kidney. The existence of a receptor with high affinity for tyramine supports the hypothesis that tyramine may also act directly to affect blood pressure regulationDietary tyramine intake has also been associated with migraine in select populations, leading many sufferers to restrict foods high in tyramine.[6] Reports on the tyramine-migraine link have been both affirmed and denied. At the Department of Neurology and EEG at the London Hospital, a double-blind study has shown that there is no significant relationship between tyramine ingestion and migraines.[7] The EEG changes observed, however, do support that tyramine plays a role on the central nervous system in some subjects. A 2007 review published in Neurological Sciences[8] presented data showing migraine and cluster headaches are characterised by an increase of circulating neurotransmitters and neuromodulators (including tyramine, octopamine and synephrine[dubious – discuss]) in the hypothalamus, amygdala and dopaminergic system.I wonder if there's a thyroid / tyrosine connection here too. I have hashimoto's ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellgirl Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 Very interesting, so as I expected, this was the reason my dad had a cerebral aneurysm at 59, and since I am my father's daughter, I've got 4 more years, and I'm going to make the best of them He was a miracle man and lived 12 more years, and maybe since I have a handle on it, and I'm a survivor, I'll do better than that Not trying to be depressing guys, just realistic...I'm fine, really I am, just silly most of the time...humor lightens it up!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icesktr189 Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 I heard it was only life threatening when it occurs in some cases...ie benzo withdrawl, head tramas, ect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichGotsPots Posted May 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 This is very scary because last year when I ended up in the hospital I had 160 hr and 165/110 BP. I'm getting a 2nd tilt in a week to measure my adrenalin levels. In the last few days I've found a treasure trove of anti adrenalin meds besides the ones listed. Almost all have the affect of lowering BP. I have a BP monitor and I usually have perfect BP, but it can go higher when I'm stressed and get adrenalin surges. But at the same time I had a pulm walking test and they found my BP plummets when I walk even for 3 minutes to before 100/75... So then if I have a adrenalin surge in theory shouldn't walking help? It doesn't though...and if i take one of these meds, beta b,locker, clonidine, etc... How will I be able to walk if it lowers my normal bp down to 105/78, let's say then when I walk it will go to below 90/? I need a adreniline lowering med that won't affect BP is there such a thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichGotsPots Posted May 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 Here a partial list of adreniline (ne) blockers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sympatholytic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichGotsPots Posted May 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 Does anyone think pulse pressure or how hard the heart beats is just as important to how fast it beats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpjd59 Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 RichGotsPots:That's what I am looking for too. A med for my daughter that will lower her adreniline levels without affecting BP. Let me know if you find one (and I'll keep looking too).Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichGotsPots Posted May 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 Pam, I just posed about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disopyramide i saw it list on wiki pots page. They say it lowers ne and lowers heart rate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzysillyak Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 So then if I have a adrenalin surge in theory shouldn't walking help? It doesn't though...Hi rich,I tried but I'm too tired (PEM) to follow all of this today but I wanted to comment on the above statement ... I thought the same thing. When my hr was up I tried to do some exercise to see what would happen and landed in the bed within a a minute or two. Winded and totally out of it ...Are you saying that your hr and bp only go up too high if you're under stress ? Is this the same as saying that you have a short fuse ? ; ) My hr has gone up past my normal when I had h pylori and when I had a uti. It just dawned on me to see if this is normal when our bodies are fighting an infection.Have you looked for infections yet ? parasites, h pylori, lyme, etc ? Or have you tried anything like grapefruit seed extract or oil oforegano to see if it helps ? TC ... d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E246 Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 What does the grapefruit / oregano act on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icesktr189 Posted May 26, 2012 Report Share Posted May 26, 2012 SSRIs lower adrenaline and raise.bp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellgirl Posted May 26, 2012 Report Share Posted May 26, 2012 Bystolic is a good beta blocker for me. It is great for tachycardia, and I was already on an antihypertensive agent, and it didn't lower my blood pressure any more, like the atenolol did. I was like a dead man walking on that one. ...Bystolic works on the baroreceptors and the vessel walls. When my body became adjusted, I was not as short of breath as I was on the atenolol either. I'm also on mega vitamin D, because of deficiency, which has helped my energy level. Although now with the heat, the vasodilation is getting to me just a bit I'm a little tight in the chest again and lethargic. I'm very heat and cold intolerant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichGotsPots Posted May 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 @dizzy- No my HR is high all the time like IST but fluctuates with position like with POTS, but doing any kind of physical activity really races my HR very high but so does adrenaline surges....I want to get retested for Lyme and coinfections since I had it in 2004 but have found a good doc for it yet. I have had pnemonia and staph so ive taken antibiotics before and they helped.. I dont think my HR is related to an infection but who knows...I have taken Zinc, olive leaf w/garlic,oregeno and spirulina... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichGotsPots Posted May 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 ugh i noticed even Disopyramide has a side affect of "severe hypotension" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
issie Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 Rich, your in-box is full again. Tried to send you a message.Issie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
issie Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 I figued out a way on an old PM - so check it out.Issie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzysillyak Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 @dizzy- No my HR is high all the time like IST but fluctuates with position like with POTS, but doing any kind of physical activity really races my HR very high but so does adrenaline surges....I want to get retested for Lyme and coinfections since I had it in 2004 but have found a good doc for it yet. I have had pnemonia and staph so ive taken antibiotics before and they helped.. I dont think my HR is related to an infection but who knows...I have taken Zinc, olive leaf w/garlic,oregeno and spirulina...Hi Rich,Have you had your adrenals tested ? Are you using anything that might stress out your adrenals ? Caffeine, sugar, dyes, food intolerances. etc ... I'd be a wreck if I consumed these. I was diagnosed with adrenal fatigue via a saliva test.Believe it or not, Cinamon Rice chex made my heart race so bad once I thought I was going to have to call 911. It lasted for at least an hour. For years I thought it was from gluten cross contamination but the more I read about excitotoxins, the more I can see how it was possibly something else in there nailing me. Have you read up on excitotoxins ? Dr. Blaylock has a book on this but the info is on the web too. FWIW. I can't believe how many things have made it into our diets that fall into this category ... tyramine is interesting too tho. Sorry to hear that you had Lyme previously. I have a freind who's been fighting this for at least 4 years now. Her labs keep showing that her infections are still with her despite taking antibiotics so she keeps trying new ones. She has OI too and serious heart pounding symptoms at times too. I'm not sure how closely she monitors it tho .. Not everyone gets a thrill out of reading their bp and hr like I do ... lol ..here are some sites that I've seen recommended .. since so many of my problems are under control via diet, I'm assuming I don't have Lyme .. I'm assuming I have gluten damage to most of my organs. http://www.mdjunction.com/lyme-diseasehttp://www.lymenet.com/http://www.underourskin.com/tvtc .... d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichGotsPots Posted May 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 @dizzy- I haven't had my adrenals tested because for a long time I was on prednisone, so then the test wouldn't be accurate, I will test them very soon.. But I think they are fine except under stress... I was tested for gluten but was fine. I do have problems with carbs but I don't think it's gluten I think it's stomach pooling.. There are certain proteins that also affect BP majorlly. I don't eat much dairy or meat maybe once a week but I'm thinking of taking a whey supplement to increase my gluthosine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzysillyak Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 hmmm, I'm not sure of any better way to see how your adrenals work than by assessing how they hold up under stress. Granted traditional labs can pinpoint for certainty if your adrenals aren't working but from what I heard if these labs come back abnormal your adrenals are in really bad shape. That's why the adrenal fatigue panel is important. It picks it up before they stop working ... Sadly the testing for gluten intolerance isn't working ... Dr. vikki peterson has some great info on this. This is discussed repeatedly by medical professionals in the GF world. Have you tried eating more meat ? I tried going vegan twice now and it didn't work. My body needs the proteins found in meat several times a day. I remember Dr. Myhill saying that these proteins break down differently that other proteins ... making them easier for our bodies to utilize. And that while healthy people can utilize the proteins found in other foods, PWCs need meat.tc ... dps ... fwiw .. i stopped 4 sleep supplements and the creon my doc put me on 3 weeks ago and was superwoman today ... now to figure out why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichGotsPots Posted May 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 I was a vegetarian for 6 years, then I ate meat then I got very sick from bad chicken soup, ER sick. Then I became a vegan for two years, got POTS somewhere in the middle of that and then slowly went back to meat. I eat meat once a week about, but I'm 99% off of dairy except for pizza I'll never eat more than 5% meat in my diet, I think that's the health max.. I might try whey protein though which is dairy.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzysillyak Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 Rich,I see you're taking the vegan approach to healthy lifestyle, which I totally respect, and while that works for some it doesn't work for everyone. This leads to a lot of people sticking to a diet that doesn't workfor them. Dr myhill, cfs researcher with functional medicine approach, with over 2000 patients should know this by now.Have you looked at the ancesteral health movement or some of the paleo info ? Rob wolf was a vegan too.But there are other paleos who tried this, got sick and realized they were missing ot on important nutrients.Once a week isn't enough when are our bodies are looking for these nutrients all day everyday. I actuallyhave to eat real meat 3 times a day or else I feel weak. Granted my digestive tract isn't all there butwho's to say yours is either. Processed whey protein or other proteins aren't in their natural forms so our bodies don't know whatto do with these. Imho, Theseare just ways for the manufacturer to make a lot of money. I just learned this myself. Tc .. D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
issie Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 Yes, some really do need meat. It could be that the reaction to the chicken soup was the chicken - as I react to chicken or what the chicken has been fed - (soy, antibiotics, corn ?????). Just a word of thought here. Most MS people and those with autoimmune disorders are told to stay off of dairy - as it can somehow make autoimmune things worse. Whey is dairy. Another alternative to protein is a Pea Protein powder. It has more benefit and is more rounded out. I got mine from Life Extension. But, Dr. Mercola - also sells one (his is more expensive). But, he has some really great information on protein and the need for it and the value of Pea Protein vs. Whey. He also sells the Whey (I think --it's been awhile since I looked at his things.) But, something to think about.Issie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellgirl Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 Rich...there are a lot of other "wheys" to get protein. I eat fish, eggs, shrimp, chicken, beans, peanut butter and lots of nuts!! It's the balance of carbohydrates and protein that is key in a good diet, no matter what. Of course, vegetables and fruits are important, too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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