Insensitive To Pain Killers/local Anesthetics?

[Katybug]

I seem to be particularly insensitive to pain meds and local anesthetics. I need high doses of oral pain meds like hydro- or oxycodone to even feel them. They have to give me so much novacaine at the dentist that they look at me funny like I'm lying about not being numb. They couldn't use morphine at the ER for my lodged kidney stone and had to use delaudid. And, then today, I had to have one of my mystery finger bumps biopsied and I got the raised eyebrow from the doc when after the 2nd xylacaine shot I told him I still felt him cauterize the biopsied area (that was after he gave me an additional cc because I told him I felt the biopsy.) (Truly, today was no big deal as it was a small area.) I have never used drugs recreationally and am even extremely conservative about taking my prescription meds that have any addictive properties, so I have not made myself have a high tolerance to these kinds of meds.

Do others experience this? Does anyone know why?

I am actually very sensitive to most other meds, so this is a bit weird. I can only conjecture that it has something to do with the high levels of adrenaline always in my system overriding the effects of these drugs...but, that's not based on any science I've seen about humans, only on some things I know about how some sedatives/tranqs work in horses.

[issie]

Don't have an answer. But, do know one thing - morphine doesn't work AT ALL on me. You might as well give me water. The only serious pain med that works for me is demerol with phenergan. That's for serious surgeries. For daily type pain - Tramadol works. Maybe, different pain receptors need tweaking rather than what the meds do for you?/?? I don't know. I've never used drugs either and even with the Tramadol - I'm very careful when and if I use it. I go off of it for days/weeks to let my body re-set so it will work and I don't have to up it.

Issie

[L4UR3N]

Yay! A fellow horse lover

I have had similar experiences unfortunately. I actually have traumatic memories from a gum graft that was performed when I was very young--they couldnt numb me. They should have just used general anesthesia, but they didnt. I am pretty terrified of the dentist now LOL.

Insensitivity to local anesthetics can be part of EDS....not really sure why though .

[tinkerbella]

Same here.... I was told my nerves are not in the right place before my pots dx. Once had 21 shots of lidocaine and now I'm allergic and to have it without the eppi.. I also have extreme swelling/ scaring/ complications at sites that they have used numbing agents or none any surgery. I now think it has to do with my mito more than POTS.

Interesting about being part of EDS....Hummmm....more food for thought....

Issie, Morphine dosen't touch my pain either when I'm in the hospital ~

It's been a very Hard Knock POTSIE Life for all of us.... :o :o :o :o :o :o ta da ~

Marcaine works bests stronger and longer ~

[Gracefulprincess]

Seems like i have similar issues like you described. My body seems to not be as sensitive to pain meds. I recently had the Reveal Loop Recorder removed, and they usually use something to numb the area, then give you what they call "happy juice" (can't remember what the actual med is called) during the surgery. Well the "happy juice" never works on me...it doesn't relax me at all and i was wide awake and talking during the procedure. They even doubled the dose for me. But the meds didn't kick in till afterwards...then i could barely keep my eyes open and was very loopy. As far pain meds are concerned, they don't work too good on me either. Morphine seems to work if i'm at the hospital. I've been prescribed Lortab for pain, and only take it if i absolutely need to. And even when i do it doesnt really do anything for me. It barely effects the pain and never makes the least bit tired. So if i take it at night it never helps me sleep.

[issie]

Bella,

Scarring is also a sign of EDS.

Issie

[sugartwin]

Insensitivity is not just a part of EDS. It's so common, it's been suggested as a test to tell EDS from harmless hypermobility. If I weren't on my phone I'd give you the links, but it's something to strongly consider visiting a geneticist for, in my opinion, especially if you're of childbearing age, if you have children who are ill, or if you are wondering what caused your POTS.

[tachyfor50years]

Same here Katybug! but for me regarding local or general anesthetics, very slow acting and extremely slow recovering.

[jenglynn]

Hi Everyone! I experience this with medications- but general anesthesia is the opposite. I have been trying to figure this out. Either the normal dose won't work or wears off so quickly. I wondered if maybe its because my heart is always beating so fast- it just through my system faster? But most pain meds just don't work or if they do not for long at all.

Jen

[sugartwin]

Can't seem to get the link feature to work but here we are: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15684369 (Local anesthetic failure in joint hypermobility syndrome)

This one is a free article and there's more, but I can't seem to find them right now. Take it or leave it, I suppose.

[issie]

Thanks sugartwin - that explains a whole lot. Recently, had some dental work and can't use the epinehrine in the shot and the other one wore off so fast - just sat and endured it. One time the assistant was pressing down too hard with the suction tube and I had to have them stop the procedure because it was really hurting me. I didn't even try to explain that pain affects us more - just said after taking a few deep breaths - oh, it's okay now - go ahead. They looked at me like I had gone nutty and kept discussing between themselves what could have possibly caused the pain. I printed out for the doc the print out for dentist on EDS and POTS - so - the last visit he had read it - but, this time forgotten it - I guess. Oh, what us with EDS, POTS and MCAD go through. Makes us tough I guess. LOL

Issie

[Katybug]

Rissy - We have the dentist phobia in common too! Mine was caused by a drill after I told the chick I wasn't numb. Now, I don't want anywhere near the dentist. And, I forgot to mention that the "laughing gas" doesn't make me laugh...stone cold sober after 45 minutes with it on my face. The dentist couldn't beleive it...he was like "You should be unconscious by now." I wouldn't let that one near me with a drill (he was just replacing a filling that fell out so he had other options.)

issie - About a half hour after they gave me the morphine shot,the nurse came back and asked if I felt better. I was still doubled over wretching. I told her I think I would have had more relief from a 6 pack of beer. I didn't feel the morphine AT ALL. The Delaudid/Phenergan combo was what got me through but they were giving it to me every 2 hrs until they could get an operating room opened up for me.

Thanks for all the responses. I hate that any of us have this issue. I would be nice if at least one of our medical things (like pain relief!) would be easy.

[Guest Alex]

Hi all,

I can't say I'm insensitive to painkillers, but I seem to develop a sort of tolerance as I need increasing amounts after taking a particular drug (painkiller or NSAID) for a while. I was told that my body adjusts itself to the dose, thus asking for more in order for it to work properly. (I hope I'm making sense).

Also, I sometimes require a higher dose of local anesthetic for my dental works compared to the majority of people. Again according to my dentists, the space between my nerves is wider than the "norm" therefore they need to use more anesthetic to fill the space.

I do not have EDS or hypermobility of any sorts to blame this for, and i've been like this for as long as I can remember.

Alex

[issie]

We have the dentist phobia in common too!

issie - About a half hour after they gave me the morphine shot,the nurse came back and asked if I felt better. I was still doubled over wretching. I told her I think I would have had more relief from a 6 pack of beer. I didn't feel the morphine AT ALL. The Delaudid/Phenergan combo was what got me through but they were giving it to me every 2 hrs until they could get an operating room opened up for me.

I hate the dentist too.

Yeah morphine might as well be water. NaDA - nothing. Glad, I at least know what does work.

Issie

[CharmedLinz]

Add another Horse Person to the bunch!!!

Because of my knowledge of horses I do believe it's the excess adrenaline and/or high heart rate that makes this happen.

My vet agrees!!!

Pain killers on me seem to work fine.

Benzo's, Sedatives, Antihistamines........hardly at all.

I have always required a large dose of Valium for dentistry work. 30mg orally barely touches me, my original dentist that found this out 3 years ago was shocked. I was also hard to numb.

When I had a colonoscopy last year, my GI Doc was worried about the sedatives because of the Dysauto so watched me closely. Super hydrated me first with 2 bags of saline.

He used Versed, kept adding more and more and more until my blood pressure started dropping, dropped to 90/57 (not low for me) and asked me if I would be ok because he couldn't give me more.

Good thing I'm a curious person, told him to put the monitor in my view and I'd be fine. I was wide awake for the whole thing.

When I went in for my hysterectomy I told the Anasthesia Doc about all of it, he said he would watch it. I had never been fully put under for anything before so we weren't real sure what my reaction would be. He put on a Scopalamine patch before I went under as he said it might help to keep me under better.

Before they wheeled me into the operating room they gave me the "cocktail" of relaxing stuff.

Got into the operating room. My surgeon said hello, introduced me to the other Doctor helping him, all the nurses too, I was making jokes.

The Anasthesiologist finally said, "ok she wasn't kidding, give her more", then a couple minutes later I guess it worked because I don't remember anything after that.

In January this year I had to have root canals, the Endodontist uses Halcion. I've never had it.

He gave me the max dose which is 4 pills, according to him and the office that dose makes most people sleep through the appt and need help getting out to a car.

Nothing, Zip, Nadda....they were shocked!!! I was already there and my mental state couldn't take more and by that time I trusted him so told him to go ahead.

It took him 9 Ampules of numbing solution ( I believe Bupicaine, NO Epi) to get 2 of the 4 teeth done.

During the work on the main affected tooth, he would stop to use a machine that beeped and he'd check a screen, it was checking for nerve vitality I guess. Afterward I asked him what the shocks were. He said the machine uses electrical impulses, but I shouldn't have felt them. Yeah well...........

We had to re-schedule for the other 2 teeth, because 9 ampules is the maximum amount they can use by law in one sitting, any more can be lethal.

He gave me Valium for the second appt. 35mg barely had me relaxed as usual. This time he opted to try a number that had Epi, he knew about the bad effects and said he'd just try a little first as it numbs better.

1/2 ampule with the EPI stuff and there went the Valium, good effects gone, HR went up over 150, I was numb so told him to start. He switched back to the other number and had to use 5 more ampules for the other 2 teeth.

I see 3 dental people, Endo, Surgeon, and TMJ specialist. All 3 say I have Neuralgia somehow related to all of this and they all wrote notes saying I needed to be seen at a specialty Neurology clinic.

Don't have any answers yet from the Docs on this. But my body apparently thinks that everything should be numb and tingly while my mouth and teeth should be constantly in pain and feel everything.

I hate to say it because it's just sad what brings a smile to my face these days but I get a kick out of the look on medical personell faces when they hear how much sedatives don't work.

And my wonderful PCP still can't beleive I'm not passed out cold with the amount of Anti-Histamines and Klonopin I'm on. He's a big guy and said 1/4 of what I take would have him unconsious on the floor.

Oh and I should add that when I had my spinal tap. Whatever number they use I didn't feel, and the spinal tap didn't bother me in the least. The spinal headache for 3 weeks after did.

In Phoenix 2 or 3 weeks ago when they did the skin biopsy for SFN, the Doc did it himself and he was quite curious as he said most people at least feel the numbing solution that's injected as it "burns" like the shots in your gums for dental. I didn't feel the numbing solution or biopsies and haven't felt anything since at either biopsy site, calf and thigh. I've never felt EMG needles either, at all, not even a twinge.

[bunny]

I've fortunately avoided major surgery thus far, but laughing gas had absolutely no effect on me.

Novocain injections are extremely painful for me no matter how/what the dentist does, so I usually go without, and I have fillings in most of my teeth. I fortunately have a somewhat high pain tolerance, so they'll usually drill, I'll squeak when they hit something, wait 10-15 seconds, then they'll go at it again.

Over-the-counter pain meds (and even codine) are useless. I think it might be that by the time I'm feeling pain, the pain is so severe that those wouldn't have worked even for a normal person.

[hilbiligrl]

I'm so glad someone posted this as i just honestly thought this one was i was alone in. I too seem to have to have higher doses of pain meds, morphine does nothing for me either, in addition im the same way regarding sleeping meds... nothing, not even higher doses and doubled up with something else, does not even touch any help at getting to sleep, which is aggravating yet scary as well.

In my recent stay at the hospital, when my face swelled up in just a few short hours, then doubled in size, plus my neck..... had so much pain i never thought existed on such a severe and intense level.... only dilaudid would help through the iv and then it didn't seem to last but a short time and i would sit rocking back and forth just gritting and bearing my way through alot of if, but compared to the severity before it, i was very thankful that the pain level just decreased enough. I had never had dilaudid before this. And now, just a couple of weeks out of the hospital i cannot remember that pain, but i know how severe, intense and over the edge it was.... i just never knew pain on that scale could exist.... ever..... I mourned for pain suffers.... But now i cannot remember it (the pain, specifically) .... i don't know if it was just so traumatic that i've pushed it out of my mind or it's the short term memory, or if that's natural.

but i have a high tolerance for pain as well.... so when i mention it, by that time it's prob been way over a few months due of mentioning..... i try not to go there.

glad to see im not the only one.... but its not easy, i hate to know that others go through it at the same time

[jenglynn]

Interesting about the morphine... Had it via IV in the hospital once and did nothing. They tried Demerol I think it was? That worked. I was also prescribed Hydromorphine a couple months ago because I do occasionally need a narcotic for pain and my doctor thought switching them may prevent tolerance- usually she gives me hydrocodone. Don't take it a LOT- maybe 1x a week or if I'm really struggling to breathe I might take it because it helps calm my breathing too. But the Hydromorphine may has well been placebo. Nothing!!!! And she was telling me make sure you're in bed hen you take, etc,, but I honestly felt nothing!!!! I've talked to others who have said one pill knocked them out 12 hours. Odd!

Jen

[kayjay]

Every time I have had surgery, the doctors are surprised at how much it takes to "knock" me out. I don't think it has anything to do with my POTS. My father is the same way and he is very healthy. I have had surgery on and off of beta blockers... and still no difference. I