Panic Disorder

[lissy]

Hello all,

Has anyone found any medical articles on panic disorder causing dysautonomia? Real documents.

I have alot of panic disorder symptoms and have been dxed with GAD about 7 years ago and then more physical symptoms developed and became worse throughout the years and here I am. I am dxed with low b/p and tachy when standing but all the other symptoms seem sooooo close to PD:

Like the sensitivity to everything; Foods/stress/ppl/noises/lights/meds

Phobias

exsessive worry and searching for illnesses that can be causing all this.

anxiety attacks out of now-where then sometimes triggered....

I have been tested for so much that I am beginning to think this is more of a mental health issue an imbalance of chemicals.

I had read past posts about them overlapping but is there any research or study on it causing the low B/P and tachy?

Also has anyone been treated for anxiety /panic or any other metal health problem found meds that have been drastically helpful( changed your life) wondering if anyone would still be on this site if they were totally better...I mean very often, because If I got better I would still come here to help others just not as often:)...

Hope to hear some good news about this topic

I am being re-evaluated by a physicatrist sometime this month

and I'm very hopeful that I can get some type of improvement

I know this would not pertain to people with autonomic failure and autonomic nervous system disorders , meaning that untreated panic disorder causing dyautonomia, but in my case- (My nervous system is intact)

Lissy

[Godsgal]

Not sure if this will help but this is what came to mind. It may not have anything to do with what you're saying but it mentions panic disorder and dysautonomia and it's interesting.

http://www.panic411.org/#Dysautonomia

[lieze]

My husband had gotten me the anxiety for dummies book and when I looked at the criteria I was at the extreme level and the symptoms did match up..it was a bit of an eye opener for me.

It's hard to say if it's related to the health issues. I always did have anxiety and maybe the health scares I had tipped me into a more serious level of anxiety I don't know and can't know the correlation.

I do think if I was on just a very low dose of something 24/7 it would help more than hurt.

It's difficult to get medical personnel at times to understand that.

When you're having creepy symptoms anything to take the edge off of that would be welcomed by many people I'm sure.

[lissy]

Heres one article I found ...I will continue searching:)

and thanks for the replies and yes I did see the article you posted thats what started my search and my new doctor mentioning a mental health issues causing alot of my symptoms. And I was at 1st offended but it really makes sense to me now after all these years. And I also have a pretty stressful life which I have mentioned in the past...I'll keep posting what I find and I will be getting alot of professional opinions on this topic. Because what if in my case and some others that we know we have Low B/P and tachy when standing that by itself should feel like??? and if you have a panic disorder maybe its causing the rest of the symptoms I have no clue but I am going to find out!!!. I am hopeful that this summer I will be better than I have been for the past 3 miserable years and to think years and even months ago if a doc would have told me they think I have a mental issue going on I would have blew my top! and now maybe just maybe I have to look into everything.

And to add I have a family history of a few different mental illness.One more thing my 1st extreme panic attack took me to the ER and the doc gave me a zanax that was 14 years ago I took 1/2 and felt like a zombie, my breathing was shallow and I just didn't feel right at all and another time I was given something like valium and it did the same thing but worse I felt like I was completely losing my mind and it brought on a panic attack, but lexapro helped alot for the 3 months I took it. So doesn't that say something about the meds that I should take and shouldn't take? Like no Benzo's and use SSRI (except)zoloft it made me very very dangerous to myself:(?

Sorry I'm cramming so much into this my mind is just racing today;)

http://jop.sagepub.com/content/20/4_suppl/60.abstract

Thanks again Lissy

Lissy

[lieze]

I think finding whatever helps you is what is important whether it's more physical or psychological isn't as important as your quality of life.

I hope you can find the help you need.

Keep on searching and don't give up.

[icesktr189]

I have panic disorder from my pots. I never had an ounce of depression or anxiety before all this. It started to come on slowly after my pots started up. Problem is that people can mix up adrenaline surges with actual panic attacks. One is very physical and one is mentally induced.

[lissy]

I think finding whatever helps you is what is important whether it's more physical or psychological isn't as important as your quality of life.

I hope you can find the help you need.

Keep on searching and don't give up.

Thank you Lieze you have been so helpful and compassionate towards everyone here and we all appreciate your kind words:)

[lissy]

I have panic disorder from my pots. I never had an ounce of depression or anxiety before all this. It started to come on slowly after my pots started up. Problem is that people can mix up adrenaline surges with actual panic attacks. One is very physical and one is mentally induced.

Hi Dani I have a question mine started with anxiety so do you have any information on it starting that way? And when you say mentally induced can you explain that in more detail, like is it something we control or is it caused by chemical imbalances?

Another thing I should say is I'm not having symptoms only with standing or a panic attack episode this is daily and chronic issue for me( not nervousness or anything like that), I started with panic attacks that would only happen once every few months to more frequently and into a constant state of low, detached feeling and chronic fatigue along with the other problems.

I have had adrenaline surges like if I drink coffee or caffeine and its not to scary just racing inside tachy maybe stomach discomfort:so I completely avoid caffeine and I use to think the panic attacks were adrenaline surges but I'm totally uncertain. I did have a norepiherine*sp urine tests not long ago and it was normal and I was feeling terrible (don't know what that means I'm not too technical about all the levels and how they were suppose to be taken they were checking for a pheo.Is it true with adrenaline surges you have High BP? or just during the surge?

Lissy

[ramakentesh]

since when has PD caused hypersensitivities to noise, lights, meds, etc. Ive never heard that before - but its a common complain in POTS and CFS.

Panic disorder is caused by excessive serotonin reuptake in the cerebral in the substrate of reduced norepinephrine reuptake and sympathetic excesses. The later two also occur in POTS and one occurs in GAD.

POTS patients can experience anxiety as a symptom and according to Dr Julian Stewart often complain of anxiety and panic attacks. Other studies suggest there is no higer prevalance of anxiety and panic in POTS patients.

its very easy for a doctor to attribute all manner of physical symptoms to anxiety or panic. Most POTS patients will be told that there problem is caused by this - so to my mother with hyperthyroidism. Doesnt make it a correct or valid diagnosis.

[Guest tearose]

I have never had panic disorder and have kept active and focused enough to work through tough times and avoid depression. I have had difficult times, serious tough times too. Having a little understood ANS problem has not been easy for any of us.

The worse problem was when I kept looking and looking for the "primary first cause' because I thought, mistakenly, that by finding the first cause, the cure would be available.

There are uneducated and miseducated doctors who will interpret a continuous search, testing and wanting for more answers as compulsive and causative of problems!

When Mayo Clinic tested and said "you have a normal response to an abnormal condition" the little barroreceptors (nerve fibers in legs, toes and stomach) are not working and the way the body compensates it to have POTS, I felt I had a clear understanding that this condition was Physical based not emotional or mental.

They created a treatment plan that focused on orthostatic maintenance, compression, seat cane, hydration.

Please be careful not to accept a false diagnosis just because you are tired of the search of the perfect answer. Perhaps the search needs to end and doing the best you can would be best.

sending support,

tearose

[Victoria]

Dear Lissy,

I think it is wise to research and consider all causes of your symptoms. But I also want to offer a bit of caution. At the beginning of my illness I simply went with the flow and believed the doc when he told me I had a psych problem. I took whatever psychiatric medications I was told to. I even agreed to Electroconvulsive therapy, but I did end up backing out (thank goodness). What did I know? I was just a very sick young adult with no medical knowledge and the internet hadn't yet been developed. At several points in my life the psych drugs caused such severe tachycardia and hypotension that I had lengthy hospitalizations in the psych unit, but no one ever took my BP or HR. They described me being as on the verge of catatonia, not understanding that the very drugs they'd given me made it nearly impossible for me to move. My black-outs were interpreted as conversion disorder. The drugs they gave me for anxiety and depression wreaked havoc with my ANS. This was 25-28 years ago and those psych records still haunt me today. They precede me to almost every new doctor I see and often prevent me from obtaining adequate physical health care. I could go on and on about the pitfalls. . . . My advice would be to consider everything, but try not to put all of your eggs in one basket.

[lieze]

People on the panic forum do talk about the sensitivities to lights, sounds etc...it's quite common.

They also do have changes with their bp and pulse.

Sometimes very scary changes.

What I wonder are how many of them are actually experiencing issues with their ANS. When does it go beyond panic into POTS?

The day I had my catecholamines tested I had three panic attacks that I was able to function through.

The urine turned out normal.

It was only the serum that was elevated.

[lissy]

Thank you all and I understand pretty much everyone point of view. This is such a touchy subject to many and myself as well because I have had to stand up for myself against everyone trying to prove I was sick for so long (in which I truly am) regardless if I actually have Panic disorder I know I still have autonomic issues and that can't be changed besides meds or a blessing and I haven't been able to see if the meds can actually help me (PHOBIAS) I just want to get better I will never give into a unproven DX and I definitely don't want to be going backwards on my search of whats wrong.Maybe the 2 conditions really have nothing to do with each other...I have no clue ,thats why I posted this so my journey continues and I hope you all all having a good day

****and the symptoms I listed are ones that I have and I found a site I will post later it had at least 50-100 symptoms of anxiety and panic.

Lissy

[lieze]

Oh me too Lissy-I just happened to pick up that anxiety book for dummies and I was surprised when I was at the extreme level. How did I get there without realizing it?

Was it an overnight deal or did I slowly just experience increasing levels of anxiety?

[icesktr189]

I have told my doctor before that if he lived in my shoes everyday, he would have some form of anxiety.

Problem is also that with chronic illnesses, its very common to have lowered seritonin levels.

Im not sure what cam first, just like thechicken and the egg. You probably had panic disorder and then came down with pots. I dont think your panic diaorder caused pots however. Pots is a form of dysautonomia, which most likely would not result from a mental state. BUT any type of panic disorder will make your dysautonomia ten times worse.

Its crucial to get counseling and deal with your mental problems as well as your physical, but be very cautious in mixing them up. No matter how much therapy you have, you will still have pots at the end of the day.

I make it a point to never talk to my specialists about my mental state. Its much easier for doctors to blame all your symptoms on panic because they dont understand pots.

Fortunately, ssris can help both. Look into a low dose. They can raise bp as well as treat your panic disorder. My cardilologist prescribes my lexapro.

I hope you get relief soon. Having all these problems is no fub.

[icesktr189]

Oh wanted to add... Have your adrenals checked. Since my body was putting out so my adrenaline to raise my bp, they became shot. Anxiety is a symptom of adrenal fatigue. So is exhaustion.

[ramakentesh]

Similar symptoms occur in panic, GAD and POTS because in all three the sympathetic nervous system is engaged and overactive.

I have very little interest in what patients self-report on a panic disorder website. Sorry but that is fairly irrelevant. Increased serotonin turnover as occurs in panic disorder does not result in the increased 'sensitisation' you are describing. Although as Ive mentioned previously there are studies that suggest that both POTS and Panic Disorder share a common substrate in impaired norepinephrine reuptake. There could be a cross over but there is nothing within panic disorder pathophysiology that explain altered circulatory control as occurs in POTS. Increased sensitisation occurs in CFS and in migraines.

SSRIs can improve panic and POTS because they tend to decrease the sensitisation to the sympathetic nervous system. This doesnt mean that a positive response to SSRIs demonstrates a panic disorder diagnosis.

its very easy to attitube symptoms of POTS, panic or CFS to panic disorder because there is no effective way to diagnose this condition, but once the label is applied it can be used to explain a myriad of symptoms - POTS or panic related.

[issie]

One thing I noticed in this article was that with the hyperventilation issues, they are connecting it to too high aldosterone which causes a depletion of potassium and causes the body to be too alkaline. I'm always too alkaline. Back to my earlier question - maybe if we just took potassium it might regulate some of our issues. (One good thing about being alkaline - people seldom get cancer.) But, has anyone else checked their ph to see if they are acid or alkaline? Being hyperadrenic POTS - is this an issue just with this subset of POTS? Do those with OI issues not have these type surges? Is there a difference in ph of each subset? Sorry, getting off on another subject - will post this later as another topic.

[lieze]

I'm not sure reliable this resource is but here is another description of panic disorder causing sensitivities that is not from a panic attack support forum.

http://guidewhois.com/2011/02/what-is-panic-disorder/