Caffeine Blocks Adenosine, Boosts Dopamine, Constricts

[Dizzysillyak]

We seem revisit this topic every once in awhile and we all have different experiences.

Some benefit from caffeine, some don't.

Many only have a problem when they over use caffeine and become tolerant.

Remember, all chemicals, even the prescribed medications and things like foods, can have effects on people. Heck, water in large quantities causes "intoxication"!

Use good judgement and moderation.

Hi tearose,

I just can't see how caffeine with all it's effects on our cells can be a good thing for anyone ... blocking adenosine can never be good. It's used in too many parts of our bodies. Neither can forcing cells to drop calcium.

There was a day when cigarette manufacturers only spoke about the positive side effects from cigarettes but we all know the truth now. The effects of smoking are well documented.

Of course if someone wants to use any drug, etc it's their choice .. We're all adults here .. I'm just the messenger ... .. tc .. d

[MomtoGiuliana]

Please clarify

Mom to G..."self medicate"? in what way do you mean? As in a negative or positive way?

I would hope no one is "addicted" to ANY chemical!

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply anyone was misusing a medication. Correct in this same sense that I intended in my statement, we "self-medicate" with water, electrolytes, etc. We know these things help and we use them to improve our symptoms, but they are not prescription or OTC drugs.

Tolerate may have been a better word. I have never become a coffee drinker so I never developed a tolerance--therefore I am perhap more sensitive to its effects. But also I believe based on my experience and what I have read that caffeine does have a mildly addictive effect. For example, my mother has drunk 2 cups of coffee daily for decades. If she does not drink it in the AM she develops bad headaches. She says she "must" drink coffee every day. There seems to be wider evidence of withdrawal symptoms, as have also been discussed in this thread. It is not a controlled substance, it is a food ingredient, and seems to offer some benefits for some people. For others it causes symptoms (as in my case).

Hope this clarifies. Nothing I said was intended to be judgemental!

[Guest tearose]

Thank you very much for the clarification MtoG!

I agree with most of what you say.

The one slight variation is that caffeine, of all "drugs" has far less side effects and long term damage once you start looking, reading and comparing to all the other Rx drugs out there. It is just that as with most things in life, anything taken to extreme or abused, is very dangerous.

...even pure water!

I appreciate the opportunity to exchange ideas and understanding and hope, as you do no one is "addicted" to any chemical.

respectfully,

tearose

[MomtoGiuliana]

TR

Definitely agree! If caffeine were comparable to an Rx drug I think FDA and/or other govt agency would regulate it as such. I certainly don't think there is evidence to suppor that it should be considered dangerous.

[Guest tearose]

Dizzy..

I understand your concern but are you totally on all organic foods and no additives or drugs of any sort in your life? There are "drugs" of all sorts in our foods and some preservatives do good such as those in flour to keep it from going rancid. We would have to live like the Amish to have a more pure life style. (not that I would mind)

Even tylenol has side effects and aspirin can do harm, we all need to weigh the pros and cons.

If you get upset over the possible side effects of caffeine, how can you ever justify the use of any prescription drug with all the dangerous possible side effects??? Many people suffer damage from drugs that the drug companies hide from us. I suggest we all use common sense and if someone benefits from some a drug whether prescribed or caffeine and can live a better quality of life, not have trouble with any thing else, it may just be fine for them.

I too am a messenger...not all things in life are "all or nothing". I too trust people will use common sense! If a drug does more harm than good, whether an SSRI, caffeine, psychotropic, midodrine....whatever...it is "consumer beware"...it is our one body and we ultimately have to live with the effects.

[Dizzysillyak]

Dizzy..

I understand your concern but are you totally on all organic foods and no additives or drugs of any sort in your life? There are "drugs" of all sorts in our foods and some preservatives do good such as those in flour to keep it from going rancid. We would have to live like the Amish to have a more pure life style. (not that I would mind)

Even tylenol has side effects and aspirin can do harm, we all need to weigh the pros and cons.

If you get upset over the possible side effects of caffeine, how can you ever justify the use of any prescription drug with all the dangerous possible side effects??? Many people suffer damage from drugs that the drug companies hide from us. I suggest we all use common sense and if someone benefits from some a drug whether prescribed or caffeine and can live a better quality of life, not have trouble with any thing else, it may just be fine for them.

I too am a messenger...not all things in life are "all or nothing". I too trust people will use common sense! If a drug does more harm than good, whether an SSRI, caffeine, psychotropic, midodrine....whatever...it is "consumer beware"...it is our one body and we ultimately have to live with the effects.

Hi tearose,

Actually I am on an all natural totally organic diet. It's called the Paleo diet and appears to help quite a few people with their chronic illnesses. I ended up on this diet after years of trying different foods. I just feel good so long as I stick to it.

I'm not sure why you seem offended by this info. I'm not trying to tell you or anyone else what they can't or can't do. Quite honestly, it's not in my nature. I'm quite laid back, happy and have a live and let live attittude.

BUT, providing info isn't the same as ordering people around. Knowledge is power !!! And from what I've seen, the internet can be used for learning just about anything ...

The info I linked to concerning what caffeine does to EVERYONE'S body appears to be indisputable. Just like the info about certain other drugs, cigarettes, alcohol, meth, cocaine, etc etc ...

It's not a matter of who notices it and who doesn't. This is what's happening .. not everyone who smokes will die from lung cancer but cigarettes are still damaging their lungs.

FWIW. I don't take any drugs at this point but I would if my doctor said I had too. So, I'm not anti drug. I just believe in allowing the body a chance to heal itself by providing the best environment possible.

I'm sorry if this upsets you ... It's not my intent. tc .. d

[Guest tearose]

Why is there the need to repost my responses?

Anyway...this topic has been debated for years and I suppose this is my last time chiming in.

I have studies, agonized and considered all aspects because I would only want to help myself and not hurt myself with any action I take. At one point, I was firmly convinced that caffeine was horrible too. Then as I studied more and read more studies, I learned in moderation, with care, the caffeine also has neuro protective qualities in people. I then backed off and realized, that when it comes to our bodies, we are all so different and from that point on I respect that whatever helps one person may not be the right help for someone else. It is personal because I went through a horrible tolerance and had to learn on my own what had happened to me.

To answer you Dizzy, what you or others who's opinions I respect share here, does matter to me. On your other thread you refer to caffeine as poison. It is good that we become educated on all options when treating any disease but to say that caffeine is poison does those who need some caffeine a disservice.

Those who have cancer and are taking chemotherapy are taking a "good poison" aren't they?

I feel nor felt offended and only wanted to share my understanding, with the desire to protect others from feeling hurt for their caffeine use. That is of course, caffeine in reasonable, non addictive doses.

best regards,

tearose

[Dizzysillyak]

Thanks for the update! this is a great thread, nice to revisit it! Glad you are doing so well!!!

Thanks ... it's been quite a journey. I've still got a way to go but it feels great not feeling so wired and then tired all the time.

wish you well ... d

[Dizzysillyak]

TR

Definitely agree! If caffeine were comparable to an Rx drug I think FDA and/or other govt agency would regulate it as such. I certainly don't think there is evidence to suppor that it should be considered dangerous.

Hi Mom,

I can't trust the FDA after learning about all those drugs that they approved that have been killing people or making them sicker. These people are too smart not to know this. And I'm sure drug companies aren't happy that we can read info about these drugs for ourselves on the web now. Oh but the FDA requires them to list the possible side effects on their ads. lol ...

Healthcare is all about making money not caring for our health.

btw. if you google "caffeine poison" you'll find that our bodies treat it as a poison .. I actually heard this years ago but it didn't register ..

tc .. d

[Dizzysillyak]

Having just recently started a topic about caffeine, I was glad to see this thread re-appear. I never think to use the search option and look through older posts. I just read this entire four pages. Thanks everyone for your stories, opinions, links, etc. It's good to learn different views that you all have and learn from your persepectives.

Hi misstraci,

Happy to help. We definitely have some interesting threads with great insight on this site. tc .. d

[sue1234]

Healthcare is all about making money not caring for our health

Definitely. I am finding this out in my journey with POTS. The doctors are very willing to do research studies at these "center of excellence", yet in all this time they haven't figured this out. I have come up with more theories than them! It appears to me that they first have to find a way to make money off of a drug to "fix" POTS. I agree that the medical field(research, especially) has got to know more than they are letting on with alot of health issues.

Medical research is all about money, not cures.

All these specialty medical centers would be put out of business if researchers could come up with cures. So, they just "manage" the diseases.

[Dizzysillyak]

Hi Sue,

I couldn't agree with you more ...

I was devasted when I figured this out back in 2005 after being on total disability since 1990. I had a 2 year old to raise so my disability was unbelievably hard on both of us.

Then when I started walking normally in 2006, I got angry at the incompetence I'd uncovered. I started looking on the web for answers. Wouldn't you know a little googling and I found my answer. I found that gluten ataxia was discovered in 2004 (I think ?) and yet I hadn't been told about this. It was that easy ...

Soo, how is it that they don't know this stuff by now ? And why haven't we progressed to the point of testing for celiac disease or gluten sensitivity in everyone ? MONEY !!!

JSYK. I'm not saying gluten is the cause of every illness but in some going GF makes a world of difference.

And then there's all those other toxins .. like Teflon ... I read once that Dupont was given "x" number of years to stop producing this because it was toxic.

btw. not to be pushy, but since you have hyperinsulemia and you drink caffeine, I'm dying for you to try going caffeine free. No pressure ... I get that it has to be the right time for each of us. It's really nice being able to eat all this fruit again though ...

tc .. d

[Dizzysillyak]

Hi all,

It's way past my bedtime but I just had to google hyperinsulinemia and caffeine. And well I found some very interesting articles ... ..

here's one link but there were plenty of articles on this ...

http://www.duke.edu/~jdlane/Caffwww.htm

It will be interesting to see how my overall body fatigue / muscle weakness (CFS ?) reacts to having a steady source of glucose now as opposed to the rushes it was getting. Not to mention the lack of additional insulin from the hyperinsulinemia in there ... Watch ... I'll get run over by a bus and we'll never know ... ... tc .. d

[ramakentesh]

Adenosine agonists are quite hard to find - Lactuca virosa is about the only commonly prescribed herb that contains it - Valarian contains a reverse agonist which would work similar to caffeine, increasing stimulation through reduction in response to adenosine.

Caffeine = antagonist of adenosine receptor

Lactuca virosa = agonist of adenosine receptor

[Dizzysillyak]

Hi ram,

Good to see you here. I'm guessing from your input that adenosine agonists might be used to counteract caffeine ? I can't figure out why someone would want to do that tho. When I was googling adenosine, it seemed like something we'd be better off not messing with.

btw ... have you heard of this ? any chance a lifetime of caffeine would be involed ? hmmm, or if caffeine could cross into the womb of a pregnant mother ? Most drugs do ... tx .. d

http://www.alldiseases.org/what-is-adenosine-deaminase-deficiency/

[Dizzysillyak]

Hi again,

I've been googling "caffeine adenosine deaminase" and found that this has been researched some already. This stuff is way over my head at this point but I'm putting it here for those who can understand this ...

http://www.jci.org/articles/view/112280/files/pdf

here's that article on adenosine deaminase deficiency I linked to above. Googling this will reveal plenty more articles tho. .

http://www.alldiseases.org/what-is-adenosine-deaminase-deficiency/

Keeping in mind that certain medical tests will only pick up on a condition if the patient is near death

lol .. caffeine appears to be affecting this enzyme. And this enzyme affects our ability to fight infections. tc .. d

JSYK, at this point since I can't understand everything on this subject I'm reading I'm calling this a theory on my part ... but I'm betting it's not a theory to those who've done the reaearch ... otherwise there would be no reason for all the research.

[Dizzysillyak]

Hi again,

I stopped getting a sick feeling from eating fruit about a month ago and am actually enjoying fruit smoothies now ... pomegranate + banana ... yum ... I'm experimenting with just how much fruit I should eat to keep my energy levels up.

I found this article today .. I can't believe that there is so much info on the dangers of caffeine and most people are still addicted to it ... Check out all his resources ...

http://www.naturalnews.com/012352.html

The hidden dangers of caffeine: How coffee causes exhaustion, fatigue and addiction

Tuesday, October 11, 2005 by: Dani Veracity

It doesn't take a genius to see that there might be a downside to all of this neuron activity. In fact, uncontrolled neuron firing creates an emergency situation, which triggers the pituitary gland in the brain to secrete ACTH (adrenocorticotrophic hormone). ACTH tells the adrenal glands to pump out stress hormones—the next major side effect of caffeine.

Caffeine Blues By Stephen Cherniske MS, page 56

Everybody "knows" that caffeine makes you more alert and clearheaded. Think again. A cup of coffee gives you a wakeup jolt because it triggers a stress response. Your adrenal glands are prompted to kick out the same stress hormones that are released when you perceive an external threat or danger. Your muscles tense, your blood sugar elevates for extra energy, your pulse and respiration rates speed up, and your state of alertness increases so you're ready to wrestle with or run from environmental dangers. You may be only sitting at your table or desk drinking a cup of coffee, but your body doesn't know that. It's preparing for action.

The Memory Solution by Dr Julian Whitaker, page 261

tc ... x

The cynic in me can't help but think that any article that shows a benefit to caffeine ingestion was sponsored by those selling caffeine. ; )

tc .. d

[ramakentesh]

I thought it might be of interest.

[Guest maia]

Very interesting! Its 3am here and im up because of an accidental small 'decaf' dunkin doughnuts error over 10 hours ago. Oddly i dont feel bad and my palpitations have lessened. so i have been poking around reading posts mentioning coffee. I definietely used to self medicate with it and found it very helpful while on some meds and not so after stopping them so out went the caffeine.

After reading this post i googled lactuca virosa and found a link to the homeopathic symptoms associated with it. im stunned. at least half of the seemingly obscure symptoms are my pots symptoms. maybe its time to head back to the homeopath.

[issie]

If you look at a post that was recently put on a thread --about a study of CFS and FMS - one of the highest markers showing dysfunction in adenosine receptors - a marked increase in this receptor is shown, post exercise. If Caffeine blocks this receptor - it might not be a bad thing for some. It is also being given to Parkinson's patients and seems to be helping their symptoms. Those with ADHD it also calms down.

Many of the alternative magazines and doctors, over the years and especially in the last two years have changed their views on the benefits of coffee. It is now thought to be a good thing. A person would have to weigh their own response and decide what their body is doing with it --and decide whether or not that response is acceptable or not. We are all so different.

Issie

[brethor9]

Issie; so does all this explain why on the days I am having massive adrenaline issues caffeine actually calms my system down? I have never been able to figure that out....but on the days I am not and drink caffeine I get really symptomatic...weird

Bren

[issie]

Bren,

I'm like you. I can usually tell with my first sip of coffee whether or not I should continue to drink it or not. I have times where it will completely hype me up and other times when it is like a "good friend - soothing, comforting and necessary". Not sure, but when I read the title of this - I remembered that study and how the docs are thinking the hike in Adenosine is a major player in the soreness and fatigue some get post-exercise. They are not sure how to connect it - but, know it's worse for those with CFS/FMS. Since we're so similar to CFS and FMS with POTS and EDS ---it makes me wonder if the same issues are not at play.

Issie

[Zap]

Hmm, this is really interesting - alcohol is also an adenosine reuptake inhibitor. As are tricyclics and Indomethacin (which the migraine neuro talked about and is also on the helps with POTS list).

Thanks to Rama for the heads up on Wild Lettuce and Valerian. I need to start taking notes on all these herbs - this is gold.

[issie]

Yeah, Rama could always come up with some very good solutions. He is/was pretty amazing with his knowledge. We haven't seen him in awhile.

Issie

[Zap]

Agreed - I haven't seen him post in some time. We can at least hope that he's feeling better - though it would be nice if he had some secrets to share with the rest of us!