issie Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 I dont think I mentioned artificial sweateners. There is research that question their acceptability, sure. Im not a big fan of artificial sweateners though and there are constant studies that tend to point out vascular toxicity as well as other problems.No, but we were talking about glutamates and NMDA and aspartame is a glutamate. I think there is a connection to this and glutamates - crossing the blood brain barrier. If one substance can do it - why not others that have these aminos in them. For example: People use L-Carnitine to increase their brain function. L-trytophin calms one down and increases serotonin. Why not foods, with these aminos causing dysfunction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramakentesh Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 It has been shown to help people with ADHD and autism and Parkinsons. Why - it increases dopamine. So, you could be low in dopamine and if you stop the caffeine, you are lowering your dopamine. Which is more important adenosine or dopamine? Good research project.Nothing scares me more than a blanket statement. So dopamine will improve or cure ADHD, autism and Parkinsons disease? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sue1234 Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 I'm here cause I ate 1/2 of 1 piece, or the equivalent of 1/2 tsp, of my chocolate bar and the shakes stopped ... so what does that tell you ? no longer dizzy ... lol ...Tells me maybe your blood sugar was low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firewatcher Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 What's your gut type?The above article might play into the gluten/caffeine sensitivity issue as well. Obviously we are all different and what works for one will not work for another. Your gut type probably effects a whole host of reactions that have not been previously investigated, from immunity to brain levels of serotonin and dopamine, and how well we metabolize or absorb drugs and foods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzysillyak Posted April 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 Dizzy said ..."I'm here cause I ate 1/2 of 1 piece, or the equivalent of 1/2 tsp, of my chocolate bar and the shakes stopped ... so what does that tell you ? "Then Sue said ..."Tells me maybe your blood sugar was low. "Hi Sue,I doubt that little bit of chocolate has enough sugar to boost blood glucose. Besides,I'm eating regularly and including fruit to avoid that ... I'd say it was like an addict getting their fix ... I wasn't even using that much caffeine but since I'm super sensitive, it looks like I'm addicted just the same. IMHO, I'm definitely onto something here ... ... of course, we'll have to wait and see though. It's too early to tell how much of a role caffeine is playing in my symptoms but, but I had a similiar reaction to giving up gluten, etc. I stopped feeling jittery all the time within 24 hours ... then after I'd been on this diet other symptoms just started to fade. Some symptoms I didn't think would ever resolve ... Like sweating normally .... who'd have thought that was related to my diet ? I really think this is what's behind my OI, adrenal fatigue, insomnia, etc ... I'm responding to this like it was a drug and I'm going through withdrawals. I'm not getting that feeling like blood is rushing into my head when I lay down anymore. This would go on for a good 15 - 20 minutes ... I'm assuming it's because those blood vessels aren't constricted anymore so I'm getting more of an even flow ... where before I had to lay down to get it.Starting around Oct 2007, I've been one of those who recovers to feeling healthy after laying down for an hour. Before 2007, I felt sick 24/7. Its' when I get up that the problems start and then progress until I can't think anymore while sitting or standing. At this point, I'm still needing to lay down every few hours though. My heart still pounds when I lay down .. and it still takes me awhile to recover. It used to take an hour but I'm not sure how long it's taking me now. The nite after that chocolate I was wide awake from 2 - 5 am ... I've been doing this off and on for a few years now chalking it up to menopause .. but this makes sense too. And I slept through the nite again last nite ... IMHO, Caffeine can cause orthostatic intolerance since it constricts our blood vessels leading to impaired blood flow everywhere but esp the brain. (I'm already seeing an improvement there)IMHO, Caffeine can cause adrenal fatigue cause it keeps our adrenals on high alert. (That's improved too since I'm not on that neurotranmitter roller coaster) And I'm betting that all that increased adrenal activity and increase neuron firings keeps our bodies overly sensitive to certain foods ... or maybe that's problem caused by blocked adenosine / calming receptors ? Or maybe it's from one of the other impacts of caffeine ....... if it's even related ? BTW ... IF ANYONE IS GOING TO DO THIS ... GO VERY VERY VERY VERY SLOWLYDID I SAY VERY ? MINE is and MAYBE YOUR BODY IS ADDICTED SO COMING OFF THIS IS LIKE COMING OFF DRUGS ...I was down to 1/2 cup of coffee, 4 small sections of Equal Exchange 71% chocolate and 4 - 8 oz of Kombucha tea when I stopped cold turkey .. I could've saved myself some scarey withdrawal symptoms by lowering that .. btw .. it appears that most medical professionals won't figure this out cause they've heard that coffee, chocolate, etc (or even caffeine) has benefits. And they're probably addicted too. All addicts are in denial. Our bodies will use anything to convince us that we need that drug. gotta run ... tc ... dizzy (but not as much ... ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sue1234 Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 Dizzy, what exactly do you mean about the sweating has resolved? I'm curious, because I have almost quit sweating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzysillyak Posted April 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 Dizzy, what exactly do you mean about the sweating has resolved? I'm curious, because I have almost quit sweating.HI ... I used to not be able to sweat when I would get over heated. Getting overheated made me feel sick ... like I was cooking from the inside out. I didn't get a rash but I felt horrible. BUT either 2 or 3 years ago, I started sweating like a normal person would. Sweat will actally drip from my forehead ... lol ... like that's a good thing ... The first time this happened I was working in the yard and sweat was pouring off my forehead and onto my glasses. I had to go make a sweat band from an old towel so I could see. I sweat all over though and it pours out of me like it should. Now I can lay out in the sun or even piddle in the yard for hours without feeling sick. I'm being careful about getting sun burned but that's better now too ... I don't burn as easily. I'm not sure what did it ... I'm leaning towards the low oxalate diet though. I can't remember exactly but I think I read something about oxalates and small fiber neuorathies. There's a yahoo website called trying low oxalate run by Susan Owens if you're interested in learning more. It could've been from the Paleo diet too though cause I started that at the same time .. I'd been off gluten, casein, corn, soy (all glutamates) and chemicals for a couple of years but didn't feel well if I ate grains or beans ... I assumed it was a glycemic problem.And my hypoglycemia was out of control. I was feeling too weak to stand up in the mornings. I read that Dr. Myhill recommended it to her CFS patients for glucose control ... This meant giving up all grains and legumes ... which brought me to meats, fruits and veggies. And better but not great glucose control ... My fasting is good now but my GTTs show hypoglycemia after a few hours .. I don't spend a lot of time learning why something works because I have to keep working on learning how to fix my OI, etc. tc ...oh, I almost forgot, I came back to say that I'd felt shakey all day on day 9 and thought I was going to have a seizure. So on day 10 when it wouldn't stop, that's when I ate that chocolate ...I'm still getting a little shakey but mostly if I don't lay down after eating ... It's much better though cause I'm actually getting ready to do my exercises and haven't felt up to it for about 2 months ... tc .. dizzy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
issie Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 It has been shown to help people with ADHD and autism and Parkinsons. Why - it increases dopamine. So, you could be low in dopamine and if you stop the caffeine, you are lowering your dopamine. Which is more important adenosine or dopamine? Good research project.Nothing scares me more than a blanket statement. So dopamine will improve or cure ADHD, autism and Parkinsons disease? I'm not a doctor or a scientist, but they do believe that increasing dopamine will help improve these particular conditions. I'm not so good with knowing how to put links into a page to show results. But, if you google ADHD, autism, Parkinson's and then type Dopamine - it will pull up soooooo many articles on it. Also, Life Extension has recently had an article showing the benefits of coffee and green tea - of course in moderation. Caffeine can increase the blood pressure - so us with hyper POTS may need less than we drink - but those with a low bp it might help. I don't argue that adenosine is important and if you block too much of it, you could affect your sleep quality and have more tachy issues. But, my personal feelings is - pay attention to your body and figure out what works for you. We are all so different. It may be beneficial to some to have higher dopamine levels - others may need more adenosine, and coffee/caffeine will block this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
issie Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 What's your gut type?The above article might play into the gluten/caffeine sensitivity issue as well. Obviously we are all different and what works for one will not work for another. Your gut type probably effects a whole host of reactions that have not been previously investigated, from immunity to brain levels of serotonin and dopamine, and how well we metabolize or absorb drugs and foods.Firewatcher,I think you're right - gut ecology plays a big part in health vs. disease. If we don't metabolize things properly and break them down or eliminate them properly - there can be all kinds of deficiencies and imbalances. I do believe this is a big key to the picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
issie Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 Nothing scares me more than a blanket statement. Pot calling the kettle black? I think you're guilty of this too. TRUCE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samannran Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 I agree that we are all different. I have PAF & heart disease. A little caffeine in the morning and afternoon raises my low bp and helps me manage the day. I couldn't tolerate midodrine or Florinef, so caffeine is my medication along with many others. Like everything else with us, it's trial and error to see what works best for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sue1234 Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 Firewatcher, that article is exactly what I've been researching for the last couple of months. I had an appt. to go see an MD back in February that does in-depth gut bacteria DNA testing via stool sample, but she is cash-pay, and I just couldn't afford it at the moment. I really feel my bacteria are out of balance, and probiotics, for me, are not the answer. It definitely is a job for a Super-doctor, or in this case, the doctor that I cancelled on. I hope to go to that doctor in a few months. I have had clues that things are not being metabolized correctly in my gut, and causing odd "metabolites" that a brain really needs to think through. I get sooo dumbstruck when I read all the science that I feel like I go in circles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firewatcher Posted April 24, 2011 Report Share Posted April 24, 2011 More gut/brain info and speculation:Gut bacteria can affect onset of MSGut bacteria Coopt our Immune system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzysillyak Posted April 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2011 more good info on caffeine ... http://www.detox-for-life.com/caffeine.htmlAnything that causes an addiction will lead to negative effects on the body, mind, or overall quality of life. In this case, those who feel they cannot properly function without their coffee or other sources of caffeine, and believes they must consume it on a daily basis – is addicted. In addition to the addicting qualities associated with this type of stimulant, the body may encounter an elevation in sugar and fat within the bloodstream; increased blood pressure; irregular heartbeat; headaches; tremors; irritability; dehydration; nervousness; insomnia; interrupted sleep patterns; anxiety and depression. In women, the unwanted symptoms of premenstrual syndrome (PMS) may increase. The stimulation of the central nervous system may lead to the body's inability to rejuvenate when at rest. The loss of urinary calcium and magnesium may increase, causing long-term bone consequences. Increased stomach acid secretion sometimes occurs, which can irritate a stomach ulcer. Dehydration is a main concern for people who consume a lot of coffee or caffeinated products. It affects the kidneys by causing diuretic results – increasing urine production and loss of water from the body. Since heightened urine production takes place, the chances of losing calcium contained within the fluid increases, which can affect bone density and possibly lead to osteoporosis. Additional conditions that develop or worsen due to overconsumption include cardiac arrhythmia, iron deficiency, and kidney stones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzysillyak Posted April 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2011 firewatcher,KD Meirlier has done quite a bit of work in this area. His info in on Phoonix Rising. Aslo, the company Body Ecology has some great info on this ... you may want to start a new thread so we can discuss this more thoroughly ... dizzy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzysillyak Posted April 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2011 http://www.detox-for-life.com/caffeine.htmlWhen coffee drinkers attempt to end their caffeine dependency, they experience negative body responses known as withdrawal. Additionally, the psychological dependency worsens the intensity of withdrawal symptoms, which includes irritability, restlessness, muscle stiffness, headaches, lapse in concentration, chills and/or hot spells. Withdrawal symptoms can appear as soon as 12 hours after lessened or stopped intake. The worst of the symptoms come after 24 to 48 hours, sometimes lasting up to a week. While drinking three cups of coffee is considered an average amount of caffine consumption, those who guzzle 10 cups per day are considered excessive. A more intense withdrawal period is experienced with jitteriness, sleeping difficulties, headaches, nausea, anxiety, increased heartbeat, and a flushed face. I disagree with this person's timeframe for withdrawal but otherwise this looks good ... interestingly, I didn't drink that much yet I'm having the symptoms of someone who does ... could be because I would drink or eat something with caffeine in it throughout the day thus keeping my body on alert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzysillyak Posted April 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2011 http://www.detox-for-life.com/caffeine.htmldetox symptoms ... To avoid the negative effects of caffeine on the body, many individuals enter what is called a "detox." There are two main ways that one approaches this process: cold turkey and gradual.With the cold turkey method, an individual quickly eliminates their caffeine intake in an effort to force the body into readjusting to the idea of not receiving a daily dose. Cold turkey is considered one of the most painful and least effective methods. Throughout the process, one is usually unproductive and miserable. A more reasonable caffeine detox method is called "coffee fading," where a person cuts their daily consumption of coffee by ½ cup per day. With a more gradual method, one can work their way down to zero cups per day or an amount that is more tolerable. Coffee fading is pain-free, but does take a bit of planning. First, you need to measure your current coffee consumption so you can keep track of your beverage intake throughout the day. Someone who drinks 10 cups of coffee per day may take more than 20 days to complete a detox goal of zero cups per day. I can vouche for not going cold turkey ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
issie Posted April 25, 2011 Report Share Posted April 25, 2011 More gut/brain info and speculation:Gut bacteria can affect onset of MSGut bacteria Coopt our Immune systemThis makes perfect sense. I've had dysbosis severely before - I was one more sick little puppy. I nearly died. It was caused by doctors giving me too many antibiotics when my appendix ruputured and I didn't have insurance - and didn't get operated on. Because of the antibiotics I got ulcerative colitis and had to do chemo two times. Like I said, I nearly died. But one thing that really helped me to get my gut ecology back in balance is Symbiotics Colostrum the Immune Formula. Back then I didn't know about coconut oil. But, if I had've that would have been part of my treatment. I credit the colostrum to saving my life. I wonder if it would help now with these POTS symptoms. If auto immune things can trigger POTS - seems like if we can tame the auto immune system with good gut ecology - it would help. I also used allot of probiotics, with as many strains as I could find to put the good bacteria back in - since the chemo killed good and bad bacteria. Something to think about. Thanks for this info, firewatcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzysillyak Posted May 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2011 I'm still feeling the benefits of eliminating caffeine. I'm not getting that head rush when I lay down and my heart is always feeling like it's pounding when I lay down anymore ... ... Please keep in mind that I've been totally disabled with CFS/ME since 1990 and due to OI, have to sit or lay down every 3 hours maximum in order to function. My BP drops as soon as I sit or stand up though so my body only gets weaker the longer I'm upright ... I also learned that caffeine causes our cells to drop calcium. Googling caffeine calcium will give you a lot of articles to read. Here's one for your convenience ... When reading this article please keep in mind that a LITTLE caffeine is bad for anyone with a caffeine intolerance. http://www.faqs.org/nutrition/Ca-De/Caffeine.htmlAlthough, most articles on caffeine and calcium say that the amount lost isn't important, others state that it's where the calcium is dropped that's causing problems. This may be a good one but I'm too busy this morning to read it thoroughly ... http://www.jneurosci.org/content/19/17/7249.fullThis is from Susan Owens, DAN oxalate researcher. You have to be a member to see this thread but here's Susan's part ... FYI. Calcium and oxalate share a special bond. These are the main two ingredients in most kidney stones. http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Trying_Low_Oxalates/message/52509Osalate has everything to do with changing how calcium is traffickedintracellulary if it is there, and this could affect how caffaine works.Let me put some sources to help you with that.The third article showed how oxalate being in the mix changed how certaininducers worked.Look here: http://ajpcell.physiology.org/content/276/5/C1115.full.pdf+htmland for how oxalate contributes: (in case this doesn't work it does on the low oxalate board but I'm working on this link)http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T1T-47V9MHX-SV&_user=10&_coverDate=02%2F28%2F1985&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=gateway&_origin=gateway&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=c92f8886dbe80de7e75e1a8bfeda8899&searchtype=aandhttp://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jcp.1040670205/abstractSusan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzysillyak Posted July 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 Hi All,I'm updating this because eliminating caffeine appears to have helped my body regulate glucose better. I'm hyperinsulemic via GTT + insulin testing. It's been 3 months since I had any caffeine and I've been able to eat more fruit without feeling wired ... I noticed a small improvement earlier but now I'm up to 3 - 4 whole fruit servings daily. It's really helping my energy levels to have more glucose available. Of course I don't know if there's a connection but based on the fact that caffeine drives our bodies to use more glucose immediately it makes sense to me. All that glucose demand for all those years, 55, took a toll on me ... I'd already eliminated foods that we making me hyper or jittery or straining my adrenals so this was the last that needed to go. ... tc ... dPs. I've been on a Paleo / low carb / low oxalate diet for several years. This is the first time I've experimented with additional fruit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yolaclover Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 Thanks for the update! this is a great thread, nice to revisit it! Glad you are doing so well!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tearose Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 We seem revisit this topic every once in awhile and we all have different experiences.Some benefit from caffeine, some don't.Many only have a problem when they over use caffeine and become tolerant. Remember, all chemicals, even the prescribed medications and things like foods, can have effects on people. Heck, water in large quantities causes "intoxication"!Use good judgement and moderation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomtoGiuliana Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 I agree we are all different and I find it interesting (and have found it so) that some on here actually "self-medicate" with caffeine. I cannot. I get PACs/PVCs, feel wired and can have insomnia, even from one cup of coffee. Maybe b/c I never really became "addicted"--but I am quite sensitive and in fact my POTS specialist has recommended that I completely avoid caffeine. Unlike others my bp is never super low. Typical is around 110/70--in a flare up I can have high bp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tearose Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Please clarifyMom to G..."self medicate"? in what way do you mean? As in a negative or positive way?There is a big difference between those who become "addicted" and those who develop "tolerance". Just like someone can have a small exposure to pollutants but in large doses, they have trouble.We "self" use electrolytes, compression, water and rest to self help ourselves. Why should self help not be okay?I would hope no one is "addicted" to ANY chemical! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misstraci Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Having just recently started a topic about caffeine, I was glad to see this thread re-appear. I never think to use the search option and look through older posts. I just read this entire four pages. Thanks everyone for your stories, opinions, links, etc. It's good to learn different views that you all have and learn from your persepectives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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