Jump to content

Dopamine - Kidney Receptors And Pots


Recommended Posts

Recently, in another post on standing noriepi. I brought up the subject of Dopamine. Research shows that dopamine plays a part in the angiotension II system and balance of aldosterone. The

DA-1 (dopamine) receptor agonists affect - vasodilation and sodium transport. The DA-2 (dopamine) receptors affect - vasodilation, inhibits sodium reabsorbtion and regulation of sodium excretion and inhibits norepi. release. For us that are Hyper POTS - seems like if we could affect the DA-2 receptors it might would help us in allot of ways.

These receptors also affect the cardio and renal functions. I didn't know that dopamine played such a big role. But, noriepi is produced from dopamine. It makes sense that if your noriepi levels are too high - you must have enough dopamine to produce the noriepi - but are we imbalancing the dopamine levels even more because too much is being used to produce these high levels of noriepi?

There are studies being done at Vandi on the effects of dopamine at kidney receptor levels in trying to determine in POTS patients if this is affecting sodium levels. My sodium levels are always too high - and that's with NOT salt loading or using Florineff. But, before my POTS diagnosis - I was diagnosised with Parkinson's and tried sinemet - which didn't do me good at all. And then tried Wellbutrin and Lexapro. The Wellbutrin to increase dopamine and Lexapro to not imbalance the levels of seratonion too much from the Wellbutrion. This helped for a short while and then I steadily got A WHOLE LOT WORSE. So, that wasn't a good fix for me either. Then got the POTS diagnosis and quite both of those things. Last test showed dopamine levels to be (within range).

So, any ideas people?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually don't know hardly anything about dopamine. The only testing of dopamine I've had done is 24-urine and the last one was 177(0-500). I am waiting on the results of a 24-hour urine as we speak, because I've been having a lot of flushing/palpitation episodes.

Did you have blood or urine dopamine checked? Which one do they check for dopamine problems(parkinsons, etc.). They check my urine because I'm always being checked for a pheo(and this time around for a carcinoid).

Link to post
Share on other sites

Diagnosis of Parkinson's is made by clinical symptoms and evaluation by a neurologist, as well as response to levodopa. There is no quantitative lab test or scan. The dopamine blood and urine tests are not diagnostic for Parkinson's. Looking forward to the results of this study. Keep the faith.

Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks Issie,

Interesting info ...

FWIW .. Have you looked at the connection between vitamins to dopamine ? I'd heard about active B12 being an issue with dopamine but when I googled B12 and dopamine I found this ... turns out that we need more than just B12.

http://www.ehow.com/facts_5481937_increases-dopamine-production.html

B vitamins (B6, B9, B12), NADH and omega-3 fatty acids appear to increase dopamine levels.

this article also mentioned eating foods with tyrosine but didn't mention taking it ?

I've been looking at all this recently too ...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Diagnosis of Parkinson's is made by clinical symptoms and evaluation by a neurologist, as well as response to levodopa. There is no quantitative lab test or scan. The dopamine blood and urine tests are not diagnostic for Parkinson's. Looking forward to the results of this study. Keep the faith.

Yeah, that's what the neuro said - she couldn't figure out why I didn't have all the symptoms of Parkinsons nor why the sinement - didn't help. Then I was told she thought I had multiple system atrophy - scarry (like a death sentence). Diagnosis all wrong ------It was Hyper POTS - my guess is w/Mast Cell issues. The tremors are connected to orthostatic issues and autonomic problems - as well as gait issues. It's all become very clear with all the research I've done on it. I firmly believe my diagnosis is correct -- this time. Just wish I could figure out the finer details of why.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've pretty much tried everything natural - since that is the direction I prefer to go. I couldn't tell that the NADH made much difference. I know the B's do and I don't tolerate the fish oils very well - just try to eat fish. I found the site very interesting though - thanks for posting it. One of the other substances indicated is phenylalannie - did you know this is in gum -- it is supposed to raise dopamine levels too. But, as a precaution - it will also raise your blood pressure. That would be good for all you orthostatic low people. (Little trivia of natural helps. I love learning stuff like that.) As noted in an earlier post - bananas happen to be in the latex family and some people are allergic to that family of food - I am = they will put blisters in my mouth. But they are supposed to raise dopamine too. They are also on the list for high histamine causers. So, careful if there is mast cell issues. (Oh, all this trivia. Hope you guys like it too. LOL)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dopamine levels are normally normal or elevated in hyper POTS patients since the Norepinephrine transporter is responsible for the reuptake for as much as 20% of circulating dopamine.

The problems in salt regulation and angiotensin II is more strongly correlated with impaired catabolism of angiontensin II which can occur as a result of inflammation or impaired ACE activity due to genetic defect.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dopamine levels are normally normal or elevated in hyper POTS patients since the Norepinephrine transporter is responsible for the reuptake for as much as 20% of circulating dopamine.

The problems in salt regulation and angiotensin II is more strongly correlated with impaired catabolism of angiontensin II which can occur as a result of inflammation or impaired ACE activity due to genetic defect.

Rami,

In another post, in regard to nitro helping when I had a bad POTS attack and I'm Hyperadrenic POTS. You suggested the reason for the nitroglycerin helping was because of the effect on the angiotension II affect. You suggested Tyrosine as a possible help. I did research on it today and it increases Dopamine and therefore would increase epipherine and noriephrine in the long run. It seems like that would be contrindicated if your noriepi levels are already too high with Hyperadrengic POTS. But, then so does giving nitroglycerin. I'm really confused about this. The whole time I was in the hospital, they had me sitting/lying down - so maybe that's why the nitro didn't throw me into a complete bp drop. My bp was really high with high pulse rates when I got there - the nitro brought it down.

Since dopamine is connected to this angiotension II, angiotension II is produced in the liver. I've recently found out that I have a lesion on my liver and I've always known that my liver doesn't detox properly. Could the defect be in the liver?

What defects are gentic in ACE function? Also wondering if ACE inhibitors might be of benefit?

I guess this is four questions? Any answers anyone? Rama - what do you think?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been having some odd issues lately. I get "flushes" where the heat starts in my chest, up into my head and then down my arms into my hands. I would think it was menopause, BUT, the thing is my hands turn bright red and blue, and swell. I feels like someone is "choking" my hands at the wrist area. At first I thought is was pooling, but as time goes on, I think it is vasoconstriction that hits out of the blue, and what blood that was in my hands is forced to stay there until the grip of constiction is done.

So, maybe our pooling is not so much dependent, but forced through vasoconstriction. That might explain why the nitro helps. Any thoughts??

The only thing is, I get this flush and constriction even while sitting. But, if I'm standing at the time, my hands and feet look awful.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, that makes sense to me. I think that could be the problem. When I was in the hospital, in addition to the nitro - they wanted to give me a blood thinner. Wonder if too thick blood is part of the problem? Didn't take that because of not knowing if I'd need surgery or not. I have the horrible flushes too and know it is POTS related. For years I thought it was hormones, menapause - but also trying to eliminate foods that I'm reacting to has helped those flushes. So, not sure if it's not mast cell related too. I feel like possibly - if the blood is too thick and isn't going through the veins properly - it's not carrying oxygen correctly - could account for our problems with breathing, Wouldn't it be so nice - if we could figure it all out?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 8 months later...
  • 2 weeks later...

I believe the dopamine and opiod systems are linked and that increasing opiod activity might lead to an increase in dopamine actiivity. Google to check on the correctness of that info. What i do know for sure is that LDN increases opiod activity on average over a 24 hr period.

Link to post
Share on other sites

There is evidence that a portion of POTS patients have reduced expression of norepinephrine transporter deficiency. NET is responsible for extracting or transporting about 20% of peripheral dopamine, and these patients tend to have elevated postural NE and dopamine. When dopamine increases periperhally it increases salt extraction from plasma by the kidneys.

There are a few clinical trials on peripheral dopamine and salt handling right now.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Rama, That sounds about right. That seems to be how my body is working. I'm high NE and high salt and when my dopamine levels were increaed with those drugs (thinking that I had Parkinson's) I went downhill F A S T ! So, working on the NET function - should help to correct this. That would explain why Trammadol is beneficial for me. It works on the NE, seratonin, dopamine and it has to do with opiod receptors too. It will bring my blood pressure down and a sense of calm comes over me in about an hour after taking it. I also have to take a muscle relaxer with it - not sure what the connection to that is - unless it helps to dilate the veins more (I know it helps with my intestinal function).

Still thinking somehow the kidney function is involved with all this - not figuring out the connection. Have to keep digging.

Could you please list some of the sites for the new studies on this? Thanks lots!

Issie

Issie

Link to post
Share on other sites

There was something I read about a year ago - a whole pots blog by someone who had done a lot of research and he believed that thick blood was a part of the problem. He suggested bromelien tablets from pineapples as they have three active ingredients that thin the blood against one in aspirin.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I too wonder about thick blood and I have tried the bromelin before - it really does thin your blood - They are also supposed to be really good for digestion. You have to be careful though because they can thin your blood too much. That's what happened when I tried them. Had bleeding that I didn't want. Maybe if you didn't take them every day - that's what I was doing and it was too much.

Issie

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

I just learned something new about dopamine. I have a friend who is visiting me right now from where I used to live, and she has dystonia. The reason they think she got it is because of a medicine she was on to up acteylcholine and it caused dystonia - so the treatment is high doses of Benadryl to block this and up her dopamine. I guess dystonia can be the start of Parkinsons' symptoms and the treatment for that is dopamine. Just found this interesting. But, with me - Benadryl CAUSES me to have worse tremors. Wonder, if I could conclude that I have higher dopamine levels and therefore higher noriepi (know this one to be true). If we could lower these levels - those of us with high noriepi - would it lower the noriepi? It will be interesting to see what the Vandy studies bring out.

Issie

Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont know where thick blood came into it... Sounds like naturopath talk to me :)

there is a difference between periperhal and CNS effects and increases in neurotransmitters. What dopamine or norepinephrine does peripherally is quite different to what it does inside the brain.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont know where thick blood came into it... Sounds like naturopath talk to me :)

there is a difference between periperhal and CNS effects and increases in neurotransmitters. What dopamine or norepinephrine does peripherally is quite different to what it does inside the brain.

That thick blood question was ages ago - old thread. No problems! :)

MAYBE, but, we can't take our heads off our bodies or remove our bodies from our heads. It has to affect the body to some extent. We're totally connected. That's where traditional doctors and I part thoughts ---we are a complete whole. Until we realize and are treated as such we won't get complete help. You can't disect one part of the body and think that it won't affect the whole. Naturepath, yup that's my line of thought - much rather go that route. :)

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 months later...

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...