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New Herbal Interventions For Pots


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In recent periods - having become abreast with recent theories and new studies in POTS - I have come to the realisation that in many ways medical thought on the fundamental causes of POTS are currently back at the drawing board.

To give you an example, here are the current mechanisms postulated:

Alpha 1 receptor disregulation

NET deficiency

Cardiac atrophy

Autoimmune mediated neuropathy

Autoimmune mediated reduced a3 receptor activity

Noradrenergic denervation and hypersensitivity

Altered baroreflex buffering

Increased cardiac sympathetic outflow, increased QT interval, brain stem outflow origin

Reduced nitric oxide bioavailability, increased angiotensin II, norepinephrine potentiation

Sinus node abnormalities

Abnormal cerebral blood flow autoregulation

So flip a coin...

So lets talk about what Ive found from my own experience:

Panax Ginseng is an amazing herb - sure it is an adrenalin stimulant but at the time that it increases metabolism in a similar way to caffeine it also stimulates alpha 2 receptors like clonidine and also increases overall serotonin levels which in my experience always has beneficial effects. The next day i tend to crash so its a rely on at the time herb.

Another interesting herb is Kanna or Sceletium tortuosum. It is a potent serotonin reuptake inhibator and has proven effects in rebalancing the autonomic nervous system. In my experience its way ahead of any medication ive ever tried for POTS.

Valarian acts in an interesting way with POTS - it seems to act on NMDA receptors rather than true GABA receptors - improving symptoms without a detrimental effect on the autonomic balance or vasoconstriction.

Skullcap is another herb that seems to calm the body/mind without a supressing effect on the orthostatic systems.

Kava kava seems to be bad news - perhaps because of its norepinephrine reuptake inhibating effects? But for whatever reason it seem to yield a sharp 12 hour increase in POTs symptoms for me.

Butchersbroom is an amazing alpha agonist. if things like Midodrine help - its worth a try. Made me feel AMAZING for a week by tolerance was quick. it also tended to make me feel more jittery and anxious rather than the opposite. For me it was far better than both midodrine and DHE.

I have a few others that currently Im still assessing but thus far they have proven highly reliable. Stay tuned!!

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I'm thrilled that you have found things that work! :unsure: I've got too much of my Dad in me to let this post not have a cautionary tone to it though. Herbs ARE drugs, just like any other, except that there is often very little oversight into the preparation or accuracy of the dosage. If you have someone overseeing your dosage and KNOWS their effect (and antidote!) I think they are wonderful, possibly even "miraculous." However, if others of us just "take is because it worked for someone else," it can be really bad if not deadly.

I have great respect for your research and skill in "knowing your own body," but each of us is individual in our symptoms and responses. I'd love to know how these work for you and how you are finding each specific one.

I am about to try a few myself, but I have to get off the "Western herbs" first because of interactions. I don't need to add an herbal nervous system depressant on top of a pharmacological one!

What has been your level of improvement so far?

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I got a chuckle out of this because I am a caffeine tolerated, alcohol crashes me, and better in cold POTSie. But, like you, I am a "better moving around" POTSie.

I am also starting to look more into herbal treatments, as well as Eastern medicine.

I have found a nutritional supplement for CFS called D-ribose surprisingly effective at boosting my energy levels. I find this odd because I do not have exercise intolerance, though I do have overall fatigue. I would not recommend to patients on diabetes treatment or hypoglycemic episodes, since it may lower glucose levels.

Thanks for the recommendations.

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I got a chuckle out of this because I am a caffeine tolerated, alcohol crashes me, and better in cold POTSie. But, like you, I am a "better moving around" POTSie.

I am also starting to look more into herbal treatments, as well as Eastern medicine.

I have found a nutritional supplement for CFS called D-ribose surprisingly effective at boosting my energy levels. I find this odd because I do not have exercise intolerance, though I do have overall fatigue. I would not recommend to patients on diabetes treatment or hypoglycemic episodes, since it may lower glucose levels.

Thanks for the recommendations.

I aso tried the D-ribose and it made me feel horrible. At the same time I bought the Adrenal Support, but after the horrible experience with the D-ribose I was too afraid to try it. I'm gad it seems to be helping you. Did you happen to try the adrenal support? I found this stuff on a clinics website for CFS and fibromyalgia.

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Me being the "naturalist" that I am, I'm trying some different things right now myself. I want to try them out more before I post what they are and if they are effective or not. Also, as some of you have experienced ----what's good for one, is not good for another. We are all so complex and we have to make sure of ALLLLLL the issues before we can decide or not which herbal, vitamin, homeopathy etc. will be beneficial. That's why we have to educate ourselves on all the possible outcomes of taking something and then decide if it's right for us. I feel this way about medicines too. Sometimes the side effects are worse than what you're trying to help. I have however already posted about:

Ginger and Turmeric --- for pain, just keep in mind that ginger thins the blood, so it should be discontinued if a surgery is coming up, also shouldn't take with blood thinning meds. Ginger also helps nausea.

Olive Leaf --- is a natural antibiotic --- possible help for Lyme's disease etc.

Vitamin D --- helping issues with muscles, pain and energy

Apple Cider vinegar --- helps with digestion, first first thing I reach for with a sore throat, has been said to kill strep in 24 hours. I believe it --- that's all I took for it and got over it in a week.

Quercetin ---- natural antihistamine --- may help with Mast Cell and other allergies

Vitamin B complex and Vitamin C -- the combination together, I have found, will help you get over a food allergy in about 20 minutes.

Full spectrum Vitamin E -- helps with hot flashes and keeps your skin younger

Fish Oils --- helps brain fog and depression also pain. Is real good for your heart. Can also thin the blood.

Red Clover --- helps hot flashes, has estrogen type effect.

These are the things, I use and know they work, for me, in the way I've indicated.

Some of these things I take on a as needed basis, not all the time. Herbs have to be stopped after so many weeks and a break taken, then you can go back on them. Vitamin D, can be toxic and you need to know you are low and keep a watch on your levels. Other than Ginger and Fish Oil having the blood thinning properties, that's all the precautions, I know of. Unless, one of the herbs is in a family of foods that you could react to.

I'm experimenting with some homeopathy and finding it to be very beneficial. This really has to be something you educate yourself about. Different personality types of people and varying symptoms indicate a different remedy for the same illness or issue. So, not something I really feel like just throwing out there. There are many books written on homeopathy and the different components of them and I'm finding them to really help with my pain issues.

More later, as the research continues.

Just do keep in mind what firewatcher said. These "natural things" are medicines and you must be careful not to combine them with RX's that may intensify the effects or cause too much of an overload of that particular substance. DO EDUCATE YOURSELF ---COMPLETELY --- before you mix any "natural" substance into your mix of prescriptions or other supplements. Your liver and digestive system MUST break down everything that goes into your body. If you don't need it, it over taxes the body even more, and our bodies have enough taxing. But, in my case, I'm finding some of these things to be very beneficial and helping me more than the meds I've tried, thus far.

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Guest tearose

Yeah, we are all different.

I get some nasty side effects with herbal remedies so I stay away from these now.

Alcohol can make me relapse so I have a tiny bit very rarely and caffeine is beneficial.

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Two of the herbs that I'll be trialling are licorice root and ginger from the TCM (traditional Chinese medicine) practitioner's suggestion (both of which are mentioned on the forum with good results.) There is a third that he wants to give me, but if it is prepared improperly it is deadly poison! ( A lot like rhubarb, the stalk is delicious, the leaves will kill you!) He openly mentioned that to me and that it has received a lot of bad press because of common, improper preparation. Because it acts on the central nervous system, it is sort-of the natural version of klonopin and neither of us want to mix the two. He has several degrees in TCM from both China and Japan and is has quite the mind. There is no way that I would take it without his specific oversight.

Many, if not MOST, M.D. Doctors will know very little to nothing about herbs and drug interactions. Few even know of the side effects of the drugs they prescribe! If you can find an open-minded pharmacist, they would be a better bet........or a licensed herbalist. I have a severely allergic reaction to ragweed, so I have to stay away from every plant in that family, my Primary doc doesn't even know what the plant looks like on the side of the road, much less which plants are close cousins!

Herbs are DRUGS, just like any other medicine. Keep track of what you take and when, in case of a strange reaction and make sure someone KNOW what you are taking!

Ramakentesh--I'd love to know how you are finding these herbs to try and what your results have been. Australian medicine is far ahead of the US in its acceptance of TCM and herbs as medicine.

How long does it take for the licorice to lose its effect? Have you found several that work better together than alone?

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I aso tried the D-ribose and it made me feel horrible. At the same time I bought the Adrenal Support, but after the horrible experience with the D-ribose I was too afraid to try it. I'm gad it seems to be helping you. Did you happen to try the adrenal support? I found this stuff on a clinics website for CFS and fibromyalgia.

Nmorgen,

Have you experienced episodes of low blood sugar? I wonder if the D-ribose made you feel badly because you are prone to hypoglycemia. I take less than the recommended dose 2.5gm in the morning and then at noon. I can not take the D-ribose before bed because it keeps me awake. For me, it has the similar effect of caffeine on how it makes me feel without the elevation in heart rate and blood pressure. The only POTS symptom is helps with is the fatigue, which is low on my list of issues to fix. I would be avoiding it like the plague if it made you feel horrible. It obviously did not agree with you.

I was taught in pharmacy school to be very careful when recommending herbal and dietary supplements. For one, the FDA in the states does not regulate the products. Secondly, we were not extensively trained in this area. I may have had one class. I have become a little more open minded with time, but I really scrutinize a product before I purchase, and I chunk it quickly if I notice any adverse effects whatsoever. My POTS physician wanted me to take L-arginine. It is a nitric oxide precursor. I have supposedly "low flow" POTS based on the results of a Hokanson test and absolute hypovolemia. I thought the Hokanson was a flimsy piece of equipment, but that's another story. The L-arginine made me feel awful after a week, so I stopped taking it. After a few more weeks, I tried again, and I felt awful again. We know our own bodies best.

I have not tried any adrenal support products. I'm on Florinef already, so there would probably be an interaction. I'd have to analyze the ingredients. I know my natural aldosterone has been non-existant which is why I supplement with Florinef, but my cortisol tests have always been normal. I know adrenal support for adrenal fatigue is very controversial and not in my realm of expertise.

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Nmorgen,

Have you experienced episodes of low blood sugar? I wonder if the D-ribose made you feel badly because you are prone to hypoglycemia. I take less than the recommended dose 2.5gm in the morning and then at noon. I can not take the D-ribose before bed because it keeps me awake. For me, it has the similar effect of caffeine on how it makes me feel without the elevation in heart rate and blood pressure. The only POTS symptom is helps with is the fatigue, which is low on my list of issues to fix. I would be avoiding it like the plague if it made you feel horrible. It obviously did not agree with you.

You know I really don't know if I have experienced any hypoglycemia. When I looked at the symptoms they were pretty much the same as what I get with my POTs, so it could be possible. The adrenal support that I bought ingredients list is: adrenalinam, berberis vulgaris, argentum nitricum, natrum muriaticum, vanadium, oleum jecoris aselli and petrolium. It says to use for insect bites, allergies, inflammation, stress and exhaustion. I guess I really need to research each of the ingredients. I have to say that at this point I am almost terrified to take anything except for my regular vitamin.

I don't take a ginger supplement, but I do eat a lot of Thai food with tons of ginger. I crave it all of the time. Maybe it's the ginger, or it's just so darn good.

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I have had the same experience with Kava kava. Valerian did not have the same effect on me but it has been quite a while since I tried it

I have had good luck with Motherwort Motherwortas an anti-anxiety med. I use the tincture formulation, however, and this naturopath disagrees in his thesis with that mode of administration.

How are those who are benefitting ingesting the herb? It could be that for some the tincture form while less potent is more agreeable for those of us with autonomic issues.

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I am not familiar with any of the ingredients of the adrenal support. Like you, I would have to research. I have had so many bad reactions to medications that I am nervous about taking any new medications, herbs, or dietary supplements. Now I'm even leery of the D-ribose, even though it seems to be making me feel better. Hypoglycemia is bad, bad news for anyone with POTS.

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For some people, especially us POTS people, D-ribose could be too energizing. It could possibly create a hyper state. If you took a very small amount, you might could get away with it, otherwise ----zoom, zoom, zoom ---that's what your body will do. This is also true with CQ10. I found it to be almost too energizing and L-Carnitine too. These are things that help with micro stuff though. If you're deficient in that, then these would probably be beneficial. I'm glad you guys are starting to look into alternatives. Although there is allot to learn, it's worth the energy. If someone else can learn these things and recommend products --- you can do it for yourself.

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Nmorgen,

Have you experienced episodes of low blood sugar? I wonder if the D-ribose made you feel badly because you are prone to hypoglycemia. I take less than the recommended dose 2.5gm in the morning and then at noon. I can not take the D-ribose before bed because it keeps me awake. For me, it has the similar effect of caffeine on how it makes me feel without the elevation in heart rate and blood pressure. The only POTS symptom is helps with is the fatigue, which is low on my list of issues to fix. I would be avoiding it like the plague if it made you feel horrible. It obviously did not agree with you.

You know I really don't know if I have experienced any hypoglycemia. When I looked at the symptoms they were pretty much the same as what I get with my POTs, so it could be possible. The adrenal support that I bought ingredients list is: adrenalinam, berberis vulgaris, argentum nitricum, natrum muriaticum, vanadium, oleum jecoris aselli and petrolium. It says to use for insect bites, allergies, inflammation, stress and exhaustion. I guess I really need to research each of the ingredients. I have to say that at this point I am almost terrified to take anything except for my regular vitamin.

I don't take a ginger supplement, but I do eat a lot of Thai food with tons of ginger. I crave it all of the time. Maybe it's the ginger, or it's just so darn good.

It looks like the adrenal supplement you bought is a homeopathy product. Does it have like 6X or 6C type dosages? If that's the type of product it is, you probably won't have any adverse reaction to it. With homeopathy, you must not eat or drink anything 15 minutes before or after taking it -- or it becomes null and void. (It won't work.) Give a little more detail and I'll try to help with this one.

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I am not familiar with any of the ingredients of the adrenal support. Like you, I would have to research. I have had so many bad reactions to medications that I am nervous about taking any new medications, herbs, or dietary supplements. Now I'm even leery of the D-ribose, even though it seems to be making me feel better. Hypoglycemia is bad, bad news for anyone with POTS.

One of THE BEST things I've ever taken for my blood sugar -- either high or low --- is GTF chromium. My doctor told me to take it and I hardly ever have issues any more. I take one a.m. and one p.m.

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Kava Kava is listed as one of the 12 most dangerous supplements in Consumer Reports Sept 10 issue. It is good article. One of the problems is the lack of regulation of herbal products in the US. It is hard to know what is in them. You may be exactly what you want, fillers or drugs not included on the label.

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Hi Issie,

Here is a link to the product that I have http://www.drugstore.com/products/prod.asp...WELAID=61263185 Thanks for any information you can provide.

Yes, it is homeopathic. It shouldn't bother you. Be sure and don't drink or eat 15 minutes before of after taking it. Take as directed on the label and let us know what happens. It should be very subtle. Homeopathy is very diluted. It won't have the strong wam that herbals do. I'm interested in it myself. Keep us posted. I would try it in the a.m. to start with. Because you are trying to get energy, it may not be good to take it before bed. You will just have to experiment and see when it is best for you. Look up homeopathy and familiarize yourself with the principles of how it works. It's like taking a small amount of a vaccine and it helps your body to start working on its own. Some rememdies you need only occasionally, others much more frequent. Some of the ones I'm on I plan to use for a few months and then do a break and then use again. See what your body is doing and if it will reset itself. Hope it helps you.

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I'll second Reen's shout-out for motherwort. It's my drug of choice for the last year or so. I use it during a hyperadrenergic flaire or hot flash. Side effects caution use if you have thyroid disease <which I do> but my PCP is aware that I am taking it and it has not impacted my hashimoto at all ... by way of lab work.

It also cautions lowering blood pressure ... but since I take it during a surge, i've not had any issues with that.

It's my best perimenapause pal and the most effective antidote for hot flashes or palpitations.

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I'll second Reen's shout-out for motherwort. It's my drug of choice for the last year or so. I use it during a hyperadrenergic flaire or hot flash. Side effects caution use if you have thyroid disease <which I do> but my PCP is aware that I am taking it and it has not impacted my hashimoto at all ... by way of lab work.

It also cautions lowering blood pressure ... but since I take it during a surge, i've not had any issues with that.

It's my best perimenapause pal and the most effective antidote for hot flashes or palpitations.

Which method do you use - tincture or pills? If you have had luck with pills, what brand?

I have hesitated to try any pills since I have best luck with motherwort but I sometimes have a problem finding it.

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I only like the tinctures since I can control exactly how much I want to dose at one time .... I also can let it sit under my tongue for a LONG TIME when I want really quick absorption. I only buy online. Amazon.com has one that I've been getting recently. Its a member of the mint family and I hear really easy to grow. Susan Weed's book on menapause was the first time I heard about Motherwort and I think she has some articles on making the tincture at home ... http://www.gaias-garden.co.uk/articles/Sus...erbexpert4.html

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Just a note to add that homeopathy is totally regulated by the FDA in exactly the same fashion as any over the counter drug. You can check this out yourself by looking for an "NDC" number on the package. NDC means "new drug code" and shows that it is registered with the FDA.

Regarding herbals, there is no need to be afraid, especially if you do just a little homework and use common sense. Many of the big name ones submit to regulatory standards - some to pharmaceutical quality ones, some to dietary supplement ones. So I guess I would say that MOST herbals from a quality company - think those that you might find in a store like Whole Foods - are what they say they are. They have a stake in their reputation. Not to say that all smaller companies are less reliable, but if I don't recognize the company as a top brand, I play it safe and stay away. And I also stay away from any company that makes claims that seem inappropriate in any way.

If a supplement manufacturer makes ANY product that is an over the counter drug, then ALL of its products made at that facility will be made under pharmaceutical standards. One example of this is Enzymatic Therapy which makes Air Power which contains guafenesin, an OTC drug. If you look at that product, you'll see that the direction label looks like an OTC product and not like a supplement label. And it has an NDC number.

And any company can voluntarily put itself in that category. Two that come to mind and state it on their labels or website are Nature's Way and Carlson Labs. There are many others. They will either say "gmp" (good manufacturing practices) or "FDA approved/inspected facility".

When I used to be the owner of a health food store, I actually inspected my product suppliers - both onsite as well as their regulatory documents. As I used to work in the pharmaceutical industry in quality and regulatory areas and was in communication with the FDA, I knew what to look for. I'm not a special fan of Whole Foods, but their buyers will also have standards for product selection, just as I did, so that's why I mention their name here.

Hope I wrote this clearly enough to be helpful. Anyone can PM me for further info.

Dianne

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