Cranial Manipulation

[mountain girl]

I have been seeing a doctor of osteopath for cranial manipulation therapy, which I think may also be called cranial sacral for almost 6 months. I do feel like I am able to stay upright longer and more comfortably, but still am fatiqued easily and have chest heaviness as the day progresses. I continue to go to these appts because I on the one hand think it helps, but on the other hand, I am not sure. I have had pots for about 2 years, and the second year has been better than the first. Is there anyone else out there doing cranial manipulation and do you think it has helped you?

[Noreen]

I have been seeing a doctor of osteopath for cranial manipulation therapy, which I think may also be called cranial sacral for almost 6 months. I do feel like I am able to stay upright longer and more comfortably, but still am fatiqued easily and have chest heaviness as the day progresses. I continue to go to these appts because I on the one hand think it helps, but on the other hand, I am not sure. I have had pots for about 2 years, and the second year has been better than the first. Is there anyone else out there doing cranial manipulation and do you think it has helped you?

I had cranial sacral therapy for a while about 10 yrs ago performed by a massage therapist. I remember being without hip pain for an afternoon for the first time in 8 to 10 yrs. Could not continue due to cost.

IMHO, you are fortunate to have a DO who is actually practicing osteopathy. If the treatment is not adding to stressors - money, time, etc. I would continue. DO's have so much work that they are not apt to keep a patient coming back unless it is needed. My neurosurgeon's original medical degree is in osteopathy and I think it helps him to "get me" - the whole EDS hypermobility thing, etc.

Of course, the treatments are not a magic wand. The exercise and all the rest still is up to us.

[Chaos]

I've had cranial and visceral manipulation at various times over the years. I always felt a LOT better for 4 days afterward and then I'd be back where I was before. I suspect it would have continued to help my symptoms but I haven't been able to work so don't have the money for it now.

It was interesting a couple times when the PT doing the work would accidentally trigger some MAJOR autonomic responses. (This was before I knew about POTS. etc) It made me realize how powerful the work was if the very subtle things she was doing could send me over the edge with symptoms. I have known this PT for a long time and trust her fully so it wasn't like I was having a panic attack or anxiety related to the treatment at all. But the symptoms that were occasionally set off were pretty dramatic.

If and when I can get back to working on a regular basis, I plan to have her start treating me again. I'm continually amazed how much her insights (based on what she was doing with her work on my body) is tracking exactly with what the doctors and the research seem to be saying about the ANS dysfuntion I have.

[kayjay]

I am happy to hear about anything that helps people feel better. I know massages are helpful to me. I hurt more at first then feel a little better.

My doctor told me that cranial manipulation is "bunk". I never tried it but by many it is considered "quackery". -

best of luck to you.

[Noreen]

I am happy to hear about anything that helps people feel better. I know massages are helpful to me. I hurt more at first then feel a little better.

My doctor told me that cranial manipulation is "bunk". I never tried it but by many it is considered "quackery". -

best of luck to you.

Kayjay-

Remember the first poster is being treated by a Doctor of Osteopathy - she is probably in fact undergoing osteopathic manipulation. There is a long tradition of osteopathic medicine and any graduate earning a D.O. is eligible to be licensed by any state and prescribe meds and tests just as any MD would.

If your doctor does not believe in Cranial Sacral Manipulation as taught thru the Upledger Institute that is his perogative - it has, however, helped many and is a non-invasive method of treating pain without side effects. I could not tolerate massage then and even less so now.

Noreen

[mountain girl]

Thank you for all your responses. I am fortunate that my DO graduated from medical school in the 1950,s. He is in his 80,s, and still practicing because he really wants to keep helping people he can help. My cardio said he was one of the top 5 docs in cranial in the country. He charges very little per session compared to other doctors. He even told me today he wants to teach someone in my family how to do what he has been doing for me so they can help me at home, because it will probably be a lifelong comitment. He had never treated anyone with pots, but looked it up on the computer so he would understand it, and I believe he does. He is honest enough to say he does not think this will cure me but he thinks it will prevent more damage and improve the quality of my life. I know some of the DO cost 100.00 a session. I paid 60.00 for the first session and 45.00 each time after. He only works three days a week now but has many regulars, and a good reputation in my area of Va. As one of yo mentioned you sometime feel symptoms when you had a massage or treatment. I also feel that, which makes me think he is "adjusting " the right areas.I just feel like I have kinda hit a plateau now.

[janiedelite]

I'm really glad you are finding this helpful! I had cranial sacral manipulation probably a dozen times and found it to be very helpful for pain relief. Like someone else mentioned, I'd get temporary relief from POTS lasting from a few minutes to a few hours (not total relief, but any relief is helpful). I'm glad you've found something that helps, doesn't involve scarey side effects, and doesn't hurt your wallet too much!

[Chaos]

I am happy to hear about anything that helps people feel better. I know massages are helpful to me. I hurt more at first then feel a little better.

My doctor told me that cranial manipulation is "bunk". I never tried it but by many it is considered "quackery". -

best of luck to you.

Remember, it wasn't all that long ago that doctors thought washing their hands between patients was "bunk" and bleeding patients was all the rage.

I know there are a lot of medical people out there who are dismissive of cranial work. I was one of them- until I actually experienced it and saw what it did. Like others have said, it's not a permanent improvement or a cure, but it does seem to help some of my symptoms when done by a well-trained provider.

Mountain Girl it sounds like you have an ideal provider there. I think he's right when he says it'll be a life-long commitment, so it's neat that he's willing to train a family member.

[kayjay]

Chaos- My only point was buyer "beware" ...as you said it is not a cure... I really didn't need the history lesson... but thanks anyway some of this cranial manipulation stuff reminds me of the Four Humors... you should wash your hands though!

I know on this forum it is ok to SHARE info. I was repeating what the doctor at the MAYO CLINIC told me. Sometimes words don't come across clearly when written.

Mountain Girl- I hope you know that I am for what ever works for you! I want all of us to do better... I was only mentioning what my Doctor said because of the cost. He also felt that in the wrong hands more harm could be done. Reen seems to really know what she is talking about.

Noreen thanks for clarifying - that was good info and new to me!

Hope it helps you feel better.

[HoudiniCat]

I've been seeing a cranial osteopath as part of my POTS treatment for several years. It was actually at the request of my regular POTS doc (a cardiologist) who found that integrating the cranial treatments into the overall gameplan was very beneficial to a great deal of his POTS patients. I was skeptical at first but have found it very beneficial.

I've been feeling pretty good for the past few months and thought I was finally getting this whole POTS thing somewhat under control. But then - wham - I'm completely dizzy, tachy, blurry vision, shaky, burning/tingling skin - the whole nine yards. Who knows why - stress, the record-breaking 90 degree weather, or POTS just rearing its ugly head. I went to the DO yesterday for a "tune up" and he was rattling off all of my symptoms before I even had the chance to tell him. He did a treatment and hopefully, I'll start feeling better soon.

All in all, I'd say definitely stick with it.

[juliegee]

Very interesting to see everyone's doctor's takes on this . My son's ped is a top ANS doc at Johns Hopkins. He strongly recommends cranial therapy whenever Mack plateau's. A few visits with a very well trained DO can usually bump my son up to the next level of functioning. We are blessed to have a physician near us in ATL, who trained directly under Dr. Robert Fulford, the father of modern cranial osteopathy- who is immortalized in Andrew Weil's Book Spontaneous Healing.

When I first began taking Mack to see this fellow, I would have totally agreed with KayJay's doctor. This DO looked like a quack. He would place his hands under my son's head and promptly fall asleep (or so I thought.) He seemed to go into a meditative state, his chin would literally touch his chest, he was so slumped over. Then he would inexplicably yell out, "Thar' she blows!" I'd almost be asleep by this point & he'd scare the living daylights out of me . Then, he'd move his hands to a new position and start working on a different part of Mack's body.

This DO claimed to be able to feel the flow of Mack's cerebral spinal fluid. By counting the number of waves in a minute, he could located "blockages" in various parts of Mack's body and work on them. Mack saw him intermittently as needed. As Mack grew older, HE was more impressed. He'd say things like, "I feel different when he's done. Somehow he really changing things with his hands." Mack sometimes got worse, a lot worse, following treatments (we were warned that this may happen) and then he ALWAYS improved to a higher level and stayed there.

There's something to this. You're probably familiar with Andrew Weil, MD. He's a media darling from several years back- Oprah, etc. He's Harvard educated, and obsessed with a natural healthy lifestyle and alternative healing methods. In his book Spontanteous Healing, chapter #2, entitled "Right in my Own Backyard" is all about his personal experience with Dr. Fulford. Maybe consider googling Dr. Robert Fulford to learn more.

Our take- YES, it helps. We began as skeptics, but now believe. I've never personally been treated, but would love to. The doc is a few hours drive, I'm less hesitant to spend $ on myself, AND I would probably need a driver to get back home- not sure how I'd feel afterwards. One of these days, I'll treat myself .

[Aquadiva]

Chaos- My only point was buyer "beware" ...as you said it is not a cure... I really didn't need the history lesson... but thanks anyway some of this cranial manipulation stuff reminds me of the Four Humors... you should wash your hands though!

I know on this forum it is ok to SHARE info. I was repeating what the doctor at the MAYO CLINIC told me. Sometimes words don't come across clearly when written.

Mountain Girl- I hope you know that I am for what ever works for you! I want all of us to do better... I was only mentioning what my Doctor said because of the cost. He also felt that in the wrong hands more harm could be done. Reen seems to really know what she is talking about.

Noreen thanks for clarifying - that was good info and new to me!

Hope it helps you feel better.

Not to throw any fuel on any fires here, BUT I just TODAY made an appointment at MAYO CLINIC for my daughter to get manual manipulation for her POTS and possible fibromyalgia at the recommendation of a very well-known POTS dr. I am NOT a usual believer in alternative medicine, but my daughter has also found pain relief from acupuncture when steroid injections, iontophoresis, electrotherapy, ultrasound, celebrex, dolobid, flexeral, and who knows what all else did not help. She got her acupuncture at the Mayo Clinic as well. Mayo doesn't consider it "alternative" medicine, rather "complimentary" medicine. And, the dr. that did the acupuncture told us right up front it only helps SOME people. We were VERY happy when our daughter finally found relief of her terrible back pain that the pain clinic, rheumatology, sports medicine and anesthesiologists couldn't help. I say that anything is worth a try, when done by a licensed professional, and just like medications, what works for one person may not work for the other. We are very excited at the thought of maybe finding some relief with manual therapy. If we are lucky and it works, she will stick with it, if it doesn't we won't waste our time, but I will be happy that it can help others.

[kayjay]

Now that is really interesting! Is this a neuro that suggested? PLEASE let me know how is goes. Can you tell me who your daughter will see at Mayo?

Wonder what the controversy among Docs is... could be dependent on the training of the "manipulator"?

I wonder if it matters what the "source" of your POTS is?

Also Mack's Mom- I think Very highly of Dr. Rowe... he sent me info by email and is a kind caring doc. I am sad he doesn't treat 37 year olds ! Is there someone at Hopkins that does this?

[Aquadiva]

Now that is really interesting! Is this a neuro that suggested? PLEASE let me know how is goes. Can you tell me who your daughter will see at Mayo?

Wonder what the controversy among Docs is... could be dependent on the training of the "manipulator"?

I wonder if it matters what the "source" of your POTS is?

Also Mack's Mom- I think Very highly of Dr. Rowe... he sent me info by email and is a kind caring doc. I am sad he doesn't treat 37 year olds ! Is there someone at Hopkins that does this?

It was a sports medicine doctor that originally suggested accupuncture so that was who I asked about manual manipulation. There are 2 doctors in PM&R that do this. Can't remember their names offhand. The sports medicine dr. is a D.O., and one of the doctors in PM&R is a D.O. and one is an M.D. The dr. that did the accupuncture was an M.D.

Not sure when you saw the dr. that said that to you, but Mayo's view on alternative or "complimentary" medicine has changed over tha past few years, and I don't think they even acknowledged it years ago. You are maybe correct in referring to the "training" of the manipulator.

I will let you know how it goes. We aren't really looking for relief from POTS, although that would be wonderful, but more for the aches, pains, and muscle knots from what could be fibromyalgia. Who knows, maybe he can help ALL her issues!

[juliegee]

Now that is really interesting! Is this a neuro that suggested? PLEASE let me know how is goes. Can you tell me who your daughter will see at Mayo?

Wonder what the controversy among Docs is... could be dependent on the training of the "manipulator"?

I wonder if it matters what the "source" of your POTS is?

Also Mack's Mom- I think Very highly of Dr. Rowe... he sent me info by email and is a kind caring doc. I am sad he doesn't treat 37 year olds ! Is there someone at Hopkins that does this?

Hi KayJay-

I wish he treated 47 y/o's too Dr. Rowe is very kind and caring & glad he could pass some info on to you. He strongly advocates this treatment. I was hesitant, but only pursued it for my son at his insistence.

Alas, I know of no one at Hopkins who treats adults. Hopefully, others can chime in with helpful info. I draw most of my dysautonomia info from Dr. Rowe and pass it on to my local docs. Because my symptoms appear to be primarily mediated by MCAD, my allergist is my "go-to" doc.

I hope & pray you find a physician who can help you. So frustrating to have a disease that so little in know about.

Julie