90% Of The Time Dealing With Disconnection Feelings

[lissy]

Since there are 2 supposed different types of anxiety POTS anxiety and GAD is POTS anxiety only when standing? or when triggered by usual POTS triggers and who can tell this 2 anxiety types apart?

Lissy

[ramakentesh]

My point is that anxiety in general and postural anxiety (which isnt a pre-requisite for it to be POTS since the problems of blood flow in POTS can be apparent at all times) can be symptoms of POTS.

Dr Grubb stated that the anxiety related to POTS is more common in the hyperadrenergic form whereas other doctors suggest that the anxiety is the result of an ineffectual release of epinephrine to re-regulate blood flow.

Because some patients experience anxiety as part of their POTS symptoms due to highly elevated levels of norepinephrine and epinephrine in plasma (some are recorded as over 2000pmol!) ill-informed doctors have often attributed all their POTS symptoms to anxiety when there are actually clear mechanisms that explain it.

I have no idea how someone would attempt to work out whether they had GAD or POTS related anxiety - perhaps if the anxiety remained when the POTS symptoms werent as bad maybe - Im not sure.

For me, before POTs arrived out of the blue I was the calmest person on the planet - now days if I stand or sit for too long I tend to get irritable.

[erik]

I personally "disconnect" in order to avoid anxiety & pain. I am calmer for doing it. I am uber-calm outside when anxious, but messed up inside. Sometimes this works out, like facing certain situations without going fully dysfunctional or enduring lousy stuff (often longer than I should)... but sometimes it bites back like in a "relationship" (when did they invent that torturous word anyway .

Then again, perhaps I truly am just a cold hearted sonofa-gun (or "monster" as one gf called me when I made mistake of actually sharing my feelings honestly with her... guy's, don't fall for that one... it's a trap) that also just happens to also be disconnected & distant???

Anyway, I figure if "pervasive fatigue" can happen from POTS (which is mostly characterized by specific orthostatic challenges)... pervasive anxiety is fair game to be lumped in... and even a need to "down-regulate" emotional response due to chronic assault by one's own body (physiological stress/anxiety responses). This is "numbing out". It is reportedly the predominant state of PTSD for many, though of course the aggro side get's the fan-fare. And PTSD is technically an "anxiety disorder" but probably more akin to a "dissociative disorder" in terms of how it disables folks. I guess I've gone full circle again, from saying it is just POTS physiological to saying how identical it is to psychological stuff. Maybe I have "DID" multiple personalities??? ...or is that just from POTS too

[Tachy Phlegming]

What Ramakentesh said properly summarizes the phenomenon Erik. What is medically and socially important to know in this instance is that the severe agitation and suffering you experience and which in many peoples' cases changes their entire affect/appearance is not psychogenic or caused by thoughts but rather caused by a physiological process which either serves to regulate your blood pressure or which serves no purpose at all.

And it's important to understand that just as it isn't psychogenic, it shouldn't be treated medically and shouldn't be treated socially as if it were -- just as in the case of other physical conditions which cause people to appear severely agitated like hyperthyroidism.

Whether you are more prone to say something you wouldn't think if you were not subjected to orthostatic stress or whether you try to zone out or otherwise enjoy life with this physical problem is completely irrelevant to this discussion. The points are: ?What caused it?? ?What?s the proper way to remedy the defect?? Socially, the point is: ?Did this person make himself sick? What kind of illness is this? Is this person suffering an awful lot? Is the illness very scary? (It?s the most scary because it hits the pathway which is responsible for fear in normal people in the most terrifying of any of life?s circumstances.)

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Just imagine putting a person without dysautonomia in low pressure or steaming hot conditions he can't tolerate and talking about whether he is thinking thoughts which got him to appear agitated. And imagine not getting him out of those environments ever and continuing to talk such drivel. What the normal person says in such a state may be interesting but it is not a reflection of his disordered thinking when he is in proper conditions. He may be induced to think his thinking is disordered but the only reason someone would tell him it?s his (the person in low pressure or extreme heat) fault is if that person himself (the person who explains the reason the other person feels so bad) is extremely ignorant of basic physiology.

Or imagine trying to wake the dead out of a ?medical? belief that they are actually catatonic and maybe amenable to talk therapy. (Where else would the expression about ?waking the dead? have come from?) Happily, the dead couldn?t care less about a doctor?s insistence that they can be awakened. (Unless some awaken out of complete exasperation at the doctor's ignorance )

These are physiological problems which can't be remedied by discussing what the person is thinking or by treatment with medications which are used to remedy problems caused by totally different or mental problems (unless, as may be the case with some people on this forum, the entire physiological problem runs along that pathway -- which is not the case for many people on here).

And P.S. I can?t imagine anyone?s thinking that we are cold-hearted. I usually think I am hot-blooded. At worst, some of us may run hot and cold (but again, that's all physical. As you see again, it's the psychological incursions which get us into trouble ).

[lissy]

Tachy,

I really wanna know what kind of meds you take!!!! All of your posts are soooooo LOL whats the word " extravagant" actually Eric and yourself . LOL by time I read the 1st sentence I ask myself what is this even about , Thats exactly what I mean I think I am pretty intelligent and medically inclined but all these words if they are more than than a paragraph or two I lose interest and focus I have to read it like 10 times.

Lissy

[ramakentesh]

In the other anxiety thread up about five or so references that mention 'anxiety' as a symptom of POTS - and by that mental anxiety

[erik]

..... LOL whats the word " extravagant" actually Eric and yourself . LOL .....

I get wordy and "loose" from caffeine, like a compensation for inability to "condense" well. I quit for weeks then restarted lately. I had better "densification" of ideas with NuVigil a couple weeks back... more "terseical" yet still "communicable" in the virus-sense (and also better emphasis on absorption and less on excretion, thought-wise... caffeine does loosen the bowels of the mind). Prolly some ADHD in there somewhere. If I can scrounge up the money, I hope to give nuVigil a shot again. Maybe you all can sign a petition to convince my insurance to cover me (to spare yourselves, that is

I also love a "loose" cognition as a matter of style (and partial compensation for ignorance of detail). I experience "bland technical things" as though they are rich literature... a synesthete of sorts, perhaps!

[Tachy Phlegming]

Lissy, what I wrote didn't stand alone because I was answeing questions raised in a lot of posts -- and maybe that is what was hard to understand. I also use subordinate clauses, some long sentences, a few double entendres, and have a sense of humor not everyone understands or likes -- so if you're not used to that -- you may need to read it a few times.

I do try to be clear nonetheless (I wouldn't vouch for Erik on that score but I nonetheless always enjoy reading what he writes -- if I have to read it a second time to get the full import, my already high estimation of his intelligence goes up that much more).

To summarize, I was saying first of all, I agreed with Ramakentesh, and merely explaining that doctors and our friends and family should address the physiological and physical basis of our disease so that we don't get sick in the first place -- because being sick is what makes us look anxious. Second of all (to address what Erik brought up), talking about how to deal with being sick by trying to ignore the sick feeling (in whatever way we can) is ok but whatever mental process we use to feel better shouldn't be confused with the physical problem which got us sick.

I compared the relationship between POTS and anxiety (may look the same to some people if they're not paying attention but actually sounds and looks very different) to the following:

A normal person in severely hot or extremely low pressure situation and anxiety (may look the same to some people if they can't figure out the normal person is in poor conditions but actually sounds and looks very different).

Death and catatonia (may look the same but actually sounds and looks very different.

At any rate, I hope that was easy to understand on the first read.

[erik]

I've had trouble in the past with maintaining subtlety in my double entendres... my lawyer now advises me to aim for double sanstendre instead. Crafting a phrase which is simultaneously meaningless in two ways, while also being slightly risque in neither. It takes years of practice and bland diet. That's why my friends call me "white bread"... pretty sure anyway.

If my modeling career doesn't pan out, or if Vince doesn't like my "more ergonomic

" invention, I'm gonna fill out an application to become the next "Dennis Miller" except without all his deep esoteric references. I don't read much so I can't understand anything he says but still end up laughing! "Whatchu talkin' 'bout

" I like "riffing" off of other things & people with good ideas & skills (Like the Tachinator and many others)... it's a way to learn and enjoy (not "ripping off", "riffing off"... adding a little twister action, like the Vince in Ghostbusters, ehh?

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Okay now: If you did NOT do "the robot" like I did when watching that slap-chop remix video (link above), you need to see a physician at once because something is wrong with you... if you DID do "the robot" (plus a little pop-n-lock action like I did), you need to see a psychiatrist because there is something warong with you. If you did not (and do not now) click the

I guess you're perfectly healthy.

You see, separating the physiological from psychological can be that simple! You didn't even know I was testing you (and actually saying something on topic all along), did you? Sublingual Profiling & Diagnostics is utterly stealthy yet potent... that's why I call it "SPD", ehh?

[ramakentesh]

Erik - you arent on medical marijuana by any chance?

[HopeSprings]

Lissy, lol, I know those 2 are SO smart. I'll bet they solve the POTS mystery before the Dr's do!

[erik]

Erik - you arent on medical marijuana by any chance?

Not that I know of, but this phenobarbitol seems to be working great. Just teasing! I've considered med marijuana as something to try. It could go either way for me and would be interesting to see if it helped my POTS or at least the symptoms. I know people that know people who could write me a scrip legitimately if I so chose. Maybe down the road a bit after running the medical gauntlet further.

I've just got a goofy set of traits & circumstances (potentially viewable as comorbid disorders if that were useful, sometimes it is sometimes its not . I match the "90% disconnected" criteria like the thread topic states, and have multiple potential reasons for this. Makes for a complicated "presentation" and blurry lines between everything... so I swim in the murky waters and pursue multiple options simultaneously (almost like multiple persona's, hmm . It happens to be a topic I've delved in to so I've got perceptions & mis-perceptions and some enthusiasm for the topic. Ironically it is at or near top of my list of symptoms I most want to expunge. It's a life stealer.

I try to have fun with it to keep it from being otherwise unpleasant! As we all know, when stuff like this goes weird even in minor ways and from any source it's unnerving. Being a goofball is an escape hatch at times when my slap-chop is out of reach. Slap-chop therapy... "slap your troubles away". It is a rockin' tune. Of course, Vince's arrest for battery are a sad reminder that side-effects loom in any treatment regime. I will have to be cautious.

I did grow up under power lines and on a steady diet of paint chips, tho. I don't know why everyone asks me that all the time... but I guess I'll just answer that one preemptively for you!

[lissy]

Hi all.

Tachy, LOL yes that was easier to understand, I find it harder to understand what people write and sometimes even in verbal conversations since I got dysautonomia. Its sort of a hard obstacle to work around. I find myself trying to simplify everything around me or I become mentally exhausted along with the brain fog and fatigue. So its nothing personal:P I find humor in my own limitations.

And I was being serious about the MEDS thing because of someone has this sort of mental decline I'm interested in your meds is any have helped improve this issue.

Lissy

[lissy]

Lissy, lol, I know those 2 are SO smart. I'll bet they solve the POTS mystery before the Dr's do!

I think they may have a better chance:)

Lissy

[Shimoda]

Is there any way that extreme and sudden lack of emotion is attributable to the lack of blood flow?