Spontaneous Bleeding

[juliegee]

Hi All,

I have a strange question. My son Mack is 16 y/o and has been quite stable for several years. Out of the blue his symptoms have returned, mainly GI. He's vomiting again, has tons of nausea, acid, and has lost around 20lbs. He says he's not more lightheaded, but he's sleeping a lot more, is weak, and complains of a sore neck again. Mack is on a great regimen of meds managed by Dr. Rowe. He's upped his nexium and added erythromycin as a GI prokinetic. I'm sure it'll be helpful as it has been in the past.

Now for my question: since his symptoms have flared, he's begun having severe nosebleeds again. Really, really nasty ones that last over an hour and he vomits blood, etc. When he was really sick several years ago, these bleeds were common. He's had his nose surgically cauterized several times. Mackl has also had spontaneous lip bleeds- also really severe with no injury, dryness, etc. We have a family history of vascular issues- bleeds, anuerysms, dissections, etc. We've ruled out EDS IV, and Loeys-Dietz Syndrome. Any other ideas? I refuse to believe these bleeds are NOT related. They only occur when he's experiencing symptoms.

I apprecaite any thoughts.

Thanks-

Julie

[all4family]

Hi Julie,

Sorry to hear your son is not doing so good. This may sound strange, but everyone in my house has been sick, and we have all had nosebleeds for no reason. Also my neighbors kids have, and a couple of other people we talk to. Yesterday I bent over, and I thought I had a runny nose, but blood dripped on the floor. Certainly not as severe as what you are describing with your son, but I can't help but think that maybe there is something causing this high number of nose bleeds around here, and maybe it is related to what is going around. What does your sons doctors say about this? We also have history of anurism in our family, and my son had to have his nose cauterised twice. I hope your son gets feeling better soon, and you find some answers to this.

Suzy

[pat57]

Vitamin K deficiency is very rare. It occurs when the body can't properly absorb the vitamin from the intestinal tract. Vitamin K deficiency can also occur after long-term treatment with antibiotics.

Vitamin K plays an important role in blood clotting. Without the vitamin, even a small cut would cause continuous bleeding in the body, and death. Blood clotting is a process that begins automatically when any injury produces a tear in a blood vessel. The process of blood clotting involves a collection of molecules, which circulate continuously through the bloodstream. When an injury occurs, these molecules rapidly assemble and form the blood clot. The clotting factors are proteins, and include proteins called Factor II, Factor VII, Factor IX, and Factor X. Factor II is also called prothrombin. These proteins require vitamin K for their synthesis in the body. The blood-clotting process also requires a dozen other proteins that do not need vitamin K for their synthesis.

http://www.healthline.com/galecontent/vitamin-k-deficiency

[janiedelite]

Vitamin K deficiency is very rare. It occurs when the body can't properly absorb the vitamin from the intestinal tract. Vitamin K deficiency can also occur after long-term treatment with antibiotics.

http://www.healthline.com/galecontent/vitamin-k-deficiency

My mom has chronic vitamin K deficiency which was discovered by an intelligent anesthesiologist who was puzzled as to why mom wouldn't stop bleeding after they started an IV. She checked clotting times and they were 3 times normal! Surgery was cancelled! Now she is on oral vitamin K daily.

Anyway, a hematologist was paged and figured out this: Vitamin K is actually produced in the small intestine as a bacterial byproduct. Mom had a shortened intestine and continuous dumping syndrome/diarrhea from carcinoid syndrome. The constant diarrhea stripped her gut of the bacteria needed to produce vitamin K. The liver stores vitamin K, but she'd been slowly growing more deficient for so long that she had exhausted her liver stores.

So yes, vitamin K deficiency can happen in people with intestinal malabsorption or liver disease. It is rare, but easy to check as any physician can draw clotting times (specifically INR and PT). It should definitely be checked out!!! They could easily check for other clotting factors at the same time that would detect deficiencies in other clotting factors.

By the way, green leafy vegies are a great way to add vitamin K to your diet.

[Csmith3]

Hi

I'm not sure how relevant this is, but I used to get lots of really bad nosebleeds (vomiting blood, going on for hours, ending up in hospital etc). They tended to be worse at this time of year. With hindsight, it was probably a mixture of triggers for my non-allergic rhinitis and maybe some allergic rhinitis. I also have a structural problem which isn't operable, chronic sinusitis and have since discovered I have EDS3 which probably didn't help.

Once you have had a few nosebleeds, the blood vessels are so weak that it doesn't take much to have another one. And if you are losing a lot of blood, all the other POTS symptoms are going to get worse too.

My happy ending was getting a nasal spray to calm down the rhinitis enough to stop 99% of the nosebleeds. For once, an easy fix to a problem.

I hope Mack gets some respite from the nosebleeds.

Best wishes

[ramakentesh]

As a child i had constant and very bad nose bleeds - got that thing done to my nose twice.

When im feeling well from POTS i get them quite often - not when im symptomatic.

[juliegee]

Thank you everyone- as always you are a fount of info!!! I think you are on to something re. a vitamin K deficiency, Pat57 & Thankful. Every time Mack's GI symptoms flare- his nose bleeds. Hmmmm. I surfed the web and read about how even bacterial overgrowths can strip the GI tract of vitamin K. Mack has DXed small bowel dysmotilty and suffers from frequent bacterial overgrowths. I started him back on Culturelle (probiotic) last night and I'll will do my best to fill him full of olive oil (source of Vitamin K) when he gets home from school today. I think leafy greens will be too hard on his tum for now, but maybe cooked mushy spinach.... If things don't turn around, I will look into clotting times, etc. THANK YOU!!!

[pat57]

let us know

good luck......