Salt And Hydration

[issie]

------IF YOU READ THIS BEFORE, PLEASE READ IT AGAIN -- I ADDED AN OUT OF THE BOX THOUGHT ---NEED FEED BACK!!!!!

I think that too much salt, unless you are sure that your adrenals or underproducing aldosterone -- may not be good for everyone. When I was doing alot of salt, I seemed alot worse. I've recently backed off and feel better. Still keeping my water content up and at times using electrolyte support. But not the massive salt on everything nor as many G2's. But, in so doing, I've noticed that I do seem more dehydrated. It's like the water doesn't get into the cells right, even though my whole body is swollen with too much fluid. Putting more fluid in when it's not going into the cells but into my feet, hands, legs and abdomen doesn't seem like the right thing to do. But, how do you get your cells to uptake the fluid not just go into your tissues? (THIS WAS FROM AN EARLIER POST)

I just got the latest daily newsletter from Dr. Mercola. It has a topic on salt. I'm going to share some of it. It kind of confirms my thoughts on it. In some ways -- didn't know it was because of the KIND of salt we're all using.

To break down ordinary salt - which is 97.5% sodium chloride and 2.5% chemicals - iodine and mositure absorbing elements that is dried at 1,200 degrees F - which alters the structure of the salt it takes 23 g. of cellular water to break down 1 gram of sodium chloride. Therefore, it throws off the fluid balance of the body. It can contribute to arthritis and kidney and gallbladder stones. Some of these refined salts also have aluminum in them, and we know what that can do to our brains.

The article didn't say that salt was bad for you, just that the refined salt that most of us use is bad for us because of the structure of the salt and the refinement and processing. Also that it changes the crystal structure of the salt and it changes the energy in the salt. (The wording used in the article was vibrational energy, which is restorative to your body.) In fact, it was felt that salt is good for you if you use the natural unprocessed type of salts. They were especially recommending the Himalayan salt even over the sea salt. Mostly because of the amount of other minerals included in it (84 different trace minerals). Unrefined salt is 84% sodium chloride and 16% other natural minerals. They also said that salt is good for depression.

So, unless we can start using the more natural forms, we may be dehydrating ourselves even more, not to mention the fact of the burden of processing and eliminating that our bodies have to go through. I couldn't figure out why it seemed that my tissues were completely saturated but yet I still feel dehydrated all the time. Maybe because the water wasn't getting into the cells properly because of the type of salt I was using. I don't know, what I do know is I'm going to at least start trying to have my salt source be from either sea salt (which I already have some) or try this other Himalayan salt and see if it makes a difference.

Would welcome feed back on this thought process.

[issie]

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Any one got any input on this one?

[Noreen]

Would welcome feed back on this thought process.

My problem was with the last sentence - I am not sure I even have a thought to process - brain fog ya know.

many of us have switched to Himalyan salt. I can't give you a quantitative answer but I think it helps.

noreen

[flop]

I've posted before about Himalayan salt - it seems to help me. Rather than drink Gatorade I put a tiny sprinkle of Himalayan salt in my drinking water (it should feel soft in your mouth but not taste salty).

Flop

[juliegee]

Hey Issie-

Check this out from Ther Merck Manual:

Dehydration can often be diagnosed because of the symptoms and the results of an examination. But sometimes doctors do blood tests for people who appear seriously ill or who take certain drugs or have certain disorders. Dehydration normally causes the sodium level in the bloodstream to increase (see Minerals and Electrolytes: Syndrome of Inappropriate Secretion of Antidiuretic Hormone). The reason is that although the common causes of dehydration (such as profuse sweating, vomiting, and diarrhea) result in a loss of electrolytes (especially sodium and potassium), even more water is lost, so the concentration of sodium in the blood rises.

Maybe you ARE dehydrated?

Julie

[flop]

One of the best ways to see if someone is dehydrated is to take samples for serum osmolarity and urine osmolarity. The urine sample should be collected at the same time as the blood is drawn. Then the results can be compared to see if you are dehydrated.

Another test to see if you are taking enough salt is to do a 24 hour urine collection for sodium. You need to ask for the sodium as mmol/24 hrs. If the result is less than 170 mmol/24 hrs then taking more salt should make you feel better.

Flop

[issie]

I'm going to think outside of the box right now. So, you guys bear with me. I'm no doctor, so all I have is the research I've done and my thought process. I've been having two different discussions with people and they are still on going, but I think this is important enough to open it to others.

Doing research on sodium and aldestrone, I came across an article that said if you up your salt intake enough - your body will quit producting aldestrone. Aldestrone is the hormone produced in the adrenals that helps the body retain salt and helps to balance out the fluids in your body. So, if you stop the production of this very important hormone --that by the way also has something to do with potasium retention - you don't do the proper amount of salt ---and maybe not the right kind of salt -- Then we've really messed up our bodies and we are dehydrated, can't retain our water, have our BP messed up and therefore our pulse rates. ETC. Etc.

I think maybe instead of supplementing salt --which we do because that's supposed to help us retain water. (We go on this assumption because of people who exercise and sweat out their salt and fluids) --that's not what we do. Some of us don't even sweat properly. Maybe salt is not the answer. Could it be that we need to supplement our aldestrone? I know that can be done and have read about people using it transdermally from compounding pharmicies. Could it be one other hormone that we are deficient in? Since, we all have the fatigue symptoms and this is an adrenal hormone -- could this affect our energy levels too?

I hope that more knowledgable people than me will respond. This is pretty deep. But, we have to think deep to find our answers.

[juliegee]

I'm going to think outside of the box right now. So, you guys bear with me. I'm no doctor, so all I have is the research I've done and my thought process. I've been having two different discussions with people and they are still on going, but I think this is important enough to open it to others.

Doing research on sodium and aldestrone, I came across an article that said if you up your salt intake enough - your body will quit producting aldestrone. Aldestrone is the hormone produced in the adrenals that helps the body retain salt and helps to balance out the fluids in your body. So, if you stop the production of this very important hormone --that by the way also has something to do with potasium retention - you don't do the proper amount of salt ---and maybe not the right kind of salt -- Then we've really messed up our bodies and we are dehydrated, can't retain our water, have our BP messed up and therefore our pulse rates. ETC. Etc.

I think maybe instead of supplementing salt --which we do because that's supposed to help us retain water. (We go on this assumption because of people who exercise and sweat out their salt and fluids) --that's not what we do. Some of us don't even sweat properly. Maybe salt is not the answer. Could it be that we need to supplement our aldestrone? I know that can be done and have read about people using it transdermally from compounding pharmicies. Could it be one other hormone that we are deficient in? Since, we all have the fatigue symptoms and this is an adrenal hormone -- could this affect our energy levels too?

I hope that more knowledgable people than me will respond. This is pretty deep. But, we have to think deep to find our answers.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I appreciate you thinking outside of the box, Issie. I am one of those who DOES excessively sweat. And, I'm blessed to be on a good med regimen that allows me to exercise hard. Huge amounts of excess salt & water are a necessity for me, (I'm sure Himalayan salt would be even better ) BUT we are all different.

If you don't sweat excessively, you could still be losing blood volume via leaky (permeable) blood vessels due to EDS/connective tissue disorder or highly reactive mast cells.

Supporting or supplementing aldestrone is intriguing, but tricky. Balancing electrolytes is finicky business and life-threatening if you get it wrong. I would only go that route with a physician guiding you & frequent blood work.

Julie

[issie]

I think that's good advice Julie. But there are hyper and hypo alderstrone disorders. I looked them up and saw that they can indeed affect heart rates and hydrations.

I'm trying to think: What could cause issues in both male and female.

How does the body process fluids and what keeps them in balance.

Could there possibly be a gentic factor in play - if so could it be a hormone imbalance

What hormones play a part in fluid balance, salt retention and too much sodium wasting

So, you come up with aldestrone and renin. If you use alot of salt, your aldestrone levels will be low and that could decrease blood pressure and fluid volume. Higher aldestrone increases blood pressure and retention of water. It also helps release potassium and stimulates uptake of it into cells. When there is low aldestrone the potassium feedback is virtually inoperative (according to Wikipedia.) So potassium is necessary for proper heart function, but if there isn't enough aldestrone that feedback won't happen. The article says that this potassium feedback must take place indirectly from decreased blood flow through the liver due to constriction of capillaries. When the blood flow decreases so does the destruction of aldosterone by liver enzymes. The amount of aldosterone secreted is a direct function of potassium as determined by sensors in the carotid artery. Anxiety also increases aldestrone, as does pain.

Hypoaldosteronism is decreased levels of the hormone aldosterone. It can cause urinary sodium wasting, leading to volume depletion and hypotension and circulatory insufficiency, high pulse rates/ palpatations, dizziness, lightheadness when you stand, fatigue. It can also cause sweating and a feeling of thrist and craving of salt.

Hyperaldosteronism on the flip side can lead to lowered levels of potassium in the blood. Also, hypertension, muscle weakness and alkalosis, muscle spasams, numbness, tingling.

Renin is what regulates the bodies aldosterone.

So, if this is true - how do we get renin to do what it's supposed to do to regulate our aldosterone?

So, I guess now - I need to look at that function and see how that plays a part.

It seems that alot of us have both types of issues at different times. I have low and high BP and pulse rates. It's really unpredictable. I know, I personally don't sweat properly and stay dehydrated even if I've had enough fluids - it doesn't go into my cells properly. Just trying to figure this out and have it make sense. If you increase your salt, you potential lower your aldestrone and it doesn't function. When this happens your potassium isn't uptaken properly and because the potassium is higher it tries to stimulate more aldestrone so that it can be uptaken. So, potassium may increase aldostrone production if it is low. (Could be a solution for low aldosterone???)

There is an illness called Bartter syndrome - that is congenitial - it is caused by a defect in the kidney's ability to reabsorb sodium This causes a rise in aldosterone and makes the kidneys remove too much potassium from the body. This also causes abnormal acid balance - alkalosis. This disease also manifest with low blood pressure, muscle cramping and weakness, urinary and bowel issues.

Cortisol plays a part in this puzzle to.

It just seems a bit much tonight. I think I'll stop this here and dig some more tomorrow. Hoping for some input on this.

Most all this research came from Wikipidia and Dr. Mercola's newsletters also Dr. Wright's Nutrition and Healing Newsletters. And a small amount was found on a site called Stopthethyroidmadness.com.

And, like Julie said, it could be a problem with the EDS or Mast Cell. Which are two whole other issues. WILL WE EVER SORT THIS ALL OUT????????

As far as supplementing with hormones, or even salt -- I think we all should be mointered closer on even the simplier things like salt, potassium etc. Something has gone wacky and we need to figure out what -- instead of blindly treating the consequences of the end result. How many band-aids are we willing to wear before the TRUE answer is found as to why we have so many boo boo's?????????

[yogini]

This is interesting to me. I got a coupon for a salt spa - the rooms are lined with himalayan salt and you inhale it. It especially helps with allergies and asthma - my allergies are only mild. I went to 4 sessions and I did feel a little bit more energy. There is a book about salt treatment by Dr. Barbara Hendel which they had at the salt spa. There are all kinds of treatments you can do - baths, scrubs, inhalation, drinking, etc. I tried drinking water with a few drops of salt solution and it made me nauseous. Also, it is really hard to stick to on a day to day basis, so I couldn't keep it up. I'd be curious to see if it helps anyone who is able to stick with it. My guess is that if it works, it makes a small difference but doesn't cure you.

[issie]

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